Hatshepsut discussion (2 Viewers)

[Amy Lou]

In your opinion, did thutmose III hate his step mother or was he quite happy with her succession as Pharaoh?

I'm inclined to think he didn't all that much mind, but the general concensus among some historians (most male and from the dark ages of gender inequality) think he held some animosity towards his stepmother.

 

[bored6]

Re: The burning question.

In your opinion, did thutmose III hate his step mother or was he quite happy with her succession as Pharaoh?

I'm inclined to think he didn't all that much mind, but the general concensus among some historians (most male and from the dark ages of gender inequality) think he held some animosity towards his stepmother.

Happyish i'd say - see "Tombos rock inscription" and Redfords subsquent theory on it.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: The burning question.

Happyish i'd say - see "Tombos rock inscription" and Redfords subsquent theory on it.

The whole defacing of her monuments thing later in his/Amenhotep II's reign might suggest otherwise?

 

[nicole21290]

Re: The burning question.

The whole defacing of her monuments thing later in his/Amenhotep II's reign might suggest otherwise?

Just wondering, why did he wait about 20 years after her death before getting them defaced, then? And also, didn't a fair few pharaohs deface the images of previous pharaohs to make themselves look better as well? It just seems weird that he would destroy some statues but wait 20 years to do it and even then he leaves many monuments/images of Hatshepsut behind. I'm inclined to think he was okay with it because of this. He would have wiped out a lot of her images anyway because at this stage he would've, understandably, preferred to be identified with his male predecessors rather than a female. All in my humble opinion, of course. Have a great day/night/whatever

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: The burning question.

Just wondering, why did he wait about 20 years after her death before getting them defaced, then?

Good question. Possible answers: There were still supporters of her in the court. He faced pressure from distancing himself from her.

And also, didn't a fair few pharaohs deface the images of previous pharaohs to make themselves look better as well?

No, never. Pharaohs frequently used past works as rubble/fill, and frequently etched out Pharaohs in memoriae damnatio, but never did it simply to make themselves look better.

It just seems weird that he would destroy some statues but wait 20 years to do it and even then he leaves many monuments/images of Hatshepsut behind. I'm inclined to think he was okay with it because of this. He would have wiped out a lot of her images anyway because at this stage he would've, understandably, preferred to be identified with his male predecessors rather than a female. All in my humble opinion, of course. Have a great day/night/whatever

Definitely possible.

We think too much of the Pharaoh as a person, though. We need to remember that Pharaoh is what it semantically means - the palace. We might say 'the white house' is a good analogy.

 

[nicole21290]

Re: The burning question.

Good question. Possible answers: There were still supporters of her in the court. He faced pressure from distancing himself from her.

Fair enough. I guess we will probably never get a definitive answer, hey? A bit unfortunate, really.

No, never. Pharaohs frequently used past works as rubble/fill, and frequently etched out Pharaohs in memoriae damnatio, but never did it simply to make themselves look better.

*blushes* Yeah. I probably should have thought about my questions before writing them, hey? Oh well, thanks for clarifying

We think too much of the Pharaoh as a person, though. We need to remember that Pharaoh is what it semantically means - the palace. We might say 'the white house' is a good analogy.

That's very true - I've never really considered that before. Thanks for replying and fixing up my stupid errors! See ya

 

[bored6]

Re: The burning question.

The whole defacing of her monuments thing later in his/Amenhotep II's reign might suggest otherwise?

If that is his later defacement of Hatshepsut's monuments then yeah I did forget about that - anything else I haven't learnt about.

Although, I think Tyldesley put it down to something like she posed a threat to the established custom and conservative interpretation of Ma'at and his reign *shrugs* tis an interesting topic.

 

[suzzieQ]

Re: The burning question.

In your opinion, did thutmose III hate his step mother or was he quite happy with her succession as Pharaoh?

I'm inclined to think he didn't all that much mind, but the general concensus among some historians (most male and from the dark ages of gender inequality) think he held some animosity towards his stepmother.

I tend to agree. The relationship was far more complex than the history fossils lead us to believe. Our history teacher is just like this, and wont accept any different perspectives from any of us! Its really frustrating because I just want to be heard! Hows your history teacher?

 

[pakigal]

Hatshepsut-impact and influence on her time

Hey guys,

I'm having trouble understanding what I'm meant to discuss for Hatshepsut's impact and influence on her time. How is it different to the assessment of her reign and her legacy. Can someone please tell me the key points I should discuss for this dot point?
Thanks

 

[ellirene]

hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

hey, does anyone know anything on the interpretation of hatchepsut being an 'evil stepmother'?
so far in my essay i have her three images of;
building programmes
warrior king
good providor of maat

and now my teacher wants 'evil stepmother' popped in there somewhere.

i've structured the response to say that she was indeed a good nke king

thanks!

 

[-impactimposta-]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

some historians believe that she was an 'evil' stepmother because she appeared to keep thut 3 under strict control, didnt give him the crown as she was meant to etc...
evidence for after her death is that tut 3 defaced her monuments and tomb in 'revenge' for her actions. but then again there is evidence that he did this for political reasons instead. i think that they may get this interpretation fromn tut actions after her apparent death- body never found etc...
cant really remember it all but i think if you go along those lines...?

contradict those historians as well by mentioning that they were all sexist chauvinist MEN who believed that she wasnt a good king, bad stepmother, wasnt war like and had no war-ish achievements (actually appears to have had between 4 and 6) etc...
they seem to impse that any woman who kept a man from the throne was evil- but changing interrpretations suggest otherwise.

hope this helps a bit.

 

[ellirene]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

thankyou, and that definatley does help alot
i appreciate it

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

contradict those historians as well by mentioning that they were all sexist chauvinist MEN who believed that she wasnt a good king, bad stepmother, wasnt war like and had no war-ish achievements (actually appears to have had between 4 and 6) etc...
they seem to impse that any woman who kept a man from the throne was evil- but changing interrpretations suggest otherwise.

Don't go over the top with it, though.

Many traditional historians just point out that she is going against the prescribed theological and philosophical notion that a Pharaoh had to be a man.

 

[samuel slack]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

body never found etc...

They actually discovered her body a couple of months ago in a servant's tomb.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6739403,00.html

 

[COhex]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

Chances are that she wasn't an "evil stepmother" as she didn't really do much to hinder Thutmose. He still had power during their co-regency, even leading an military expedition or something and being part of other political affairs. If she really was evil she could of just had Thutmose elimated as a baby.

Older historians tend to believe the "feud of the Thumosis" theory, that is Thutmose III and later pharaohs changed her monuments and anything relating to her success to Thutmose I and II. Though this happened 20 years into Thutmose's sole reign so it is now believed that this theory is purely just a theory.

 

[-impactimposta-]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

or what they think is her body anyway.

 

[samuel slack]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

They're pretty sure. I think in that article it says, "100% sure"... So i'm guessing they wouldn't make that claim unless they had.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

They actually discovered her body a couple of months ago in a servant's tomb.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6739403,00.html

They discovered the body a fair while ago, they just didn't know it was her.

 

[samuel slack]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

Lol. You got me there.

 

[Josh_W]

Re: hatchepsut - 'evil stepmother'

I personally best way to address the whole "evil stepmother" thing is to obvoiusly admit that the mysoginists (wilson, cotrell etc) thought she was a right bitch but that this was only in response to the social norms of their time period that must be respected and understood as much as we do our own. It's too easy to label them idiots; we must remember that in their time they were respected historians who did actually do a lot for the study of Ancient Egypt.

I think the markers will like that too.