Finance is crap (2 Viewers)

[Minai]

if finance is so useless, why do companies look for it?

i thought if i want to work in the back office of a bank or investment firm, i would have to have a finance major. so i was gonna do it simply because it offers me this career path, your thoughts? can i go the same path doing acct?

acct and finance sounds very solid, but acct and actl is promising as well. or even actl and finance...?

EDIT: a few more q's now that ive read more:
2. i see if i want to do actuarial studies, a few core units are changed to harder math units. so i presume if i want to give up actl for another major, its perfectly fine because it was harder? or do i have to do the core units they replaced?
3. CPA? CA? can i get both? which is better?

On Q3 - you can get both, but seriously, why? it'd be almost like doing a B.Com at UNSW, then deciding to do a B.Business at UTS after that.

The CA program itself is quite hard and I'm still getting used to the workload. I've gone from distinction average at uni to barely passing the CA subjects, so to put myself through even more pain by also doing the CPA...no way.

 

[quixote studios]

so what electives are good if im aiming for a pure financial service related career (analyst to start, then fin advisor/broker/investment banker)? im thinking risk analysis, econometrics, technical stuff mostly. reading this over it looks like i should have taken applied maths instead. then again the light workload appeals to the part of me which is unspeakably lazy

 

[Conspirocy]

This has got to be the dumbest thread I have ever seen.

Saying a Finance major is useless is the silliest thing I have ever heard. For starters, since everyone seems to talk about the CFA then I'll say that Level 1 exams are basically what you learnt in a finance undergraduate major, so having a finance major behind you can't be that bad.

Secondly, you say finance is a joke but honestly look at the other choices you have for majors excluding econometrics and actuarial because maybe some people don't want to do all the maths. You have Accounting, Economics and I honestly can't think of another major that is serious except for Finance. So people are not really given that much choice. You may look down on other majors because you are so advanced with your actuarial degree. But why don’t actuaries rule the world?

Third, you give subjects a bad rating because you probably didn't perform well in them in them, or not as well as you would have liked. Your criticism of FINS1613 is a prime example.

Fourth, try getting an interview at a bank if you haven't done finance or actuarial studies. This was exactly my situation last year having only completed accounting and econometrics subjects. It won’t happen. Well it will, they will want you to go to the support/backroom accounting area. Seriously finance is essential for a lot of employers.

Further, in more specialised fields like accounting and economics you don't have enough knowledge to deal with financial markets. So you are limiting your career long term by not majoring in finance. Finance opens up the number of places you can work.

I cannot see how it is a shit or crappy major as you say.

God I hate actuarial students!!!!!!!!

 

[schmeichung]

Fourth, try getting an interview at a bank if you haven't done finance or actuarial studies. This was exactly my situation last year having only completed accounting and econometrics subjects. It won’t happen. Well it will, they will want you to go to the support/backroom accounting area. Seriously finance is essential for a lot of employers.

Absolutely not. After looking for jobs for months with my "precious" finance major, it will only bring me financial planning/sales/customer supports roles rather than back office work. I dont mean you wont be working in back office with finance major but this is not the main consideration after all. You CAN still get interviews from banks even if you study engineering, science, etc.

You didnt get the interview just because banking industry is not demanding at all, its not because accounting & econometrics not good enough to earn an interview.

 

[schmeichung]

Saying a Finance major is useless is the silliest thing I have ever heard. For starters, since everyone seems to talk about the CFA then I'll say that Level 1 exams are basically what you learnt in a finance undergraduate major, so having a finance major behind you can't be that bad.

Don't you know you dont need bcom(finance) degree in order to study CFA? Everybody can do it! Of course it could be easier for us because some of the stuffs overlapped, but it doesnt mean we dont have to study for level 1!

It is kind of wasting time going through the stuffs that we have already studied.

Finance major is not too bad, but it leads u nowhere close to any speciality.

 

[schmeichung]

Secondly, you say finance is a joke but honestly look at the other choices you have for majors excluding econometrics and actuarial because maybe some people don't want to do all the maths. You have Accounting, Economics and I honestly can't think of another major that is serious except for Finance. So people are not really given that much choice. You may look down on other majors because you are so advanced with your actuarial degree. But why don’t actuaries rule the world?

As of finance major, I categorize it into two groups, qualitative (ie banking) & quantatative (ie investment, portfolio management)

Apparently I would like to be quant so I took the quant subjects, but they are not deep enough for you to be a quant, most quants actually study physics, maths.

Qualitative part is even worse in my eyes, its simply loads of memorizing and regurgitating the stuffs in the exams, yet they are not practical at all and nobody recognises them. u dont really have to study these subjects to work in banking field.

Thats why I said Finance is nothing. I dont think studying actuarial is better than anybody, it is only recognised if u want to be actuary or possibly quant. (not really actually) Where on earth u get the impression that actuarial is better than anything else? I think accounting is a good choice as well and its completely different style to actuarial!

 

[schmeichung]

Co-majoring acct and fins is good because the stuffs in fins can help u in acct, but single majoring in fins is definitely not a good idea

 

[Conspirocy]

I understand what you are trying to say completely about it being soft. However, I think you are being a bit harsh. Finance is just as challenging as econometrics or economics. Accounting is a whole different ball game.

Look let’s be frank. Accounting leads you nowhere unless you do a CA or CPA. Oh and also you don't need to do accounting at uni to become an accountant and start your CA program, much like your point about the CFA. But arguing that is useless. My main point is, if not finance then what? I hate to break it to you but only about 12 people per uni will finish in honours in econometrics and they are the people who will gain any benefit from doing that major. The rest really are not that impressive.

You are really focusing on 12 people...maybe you could have done well in econometrics and so yeah then that would have been a better choice for you. However, just because finance wasn't what you expected doesn't mean it's the worst major ever. Try going to International Business lectures or Management ones.

As for accounting as I said, that leads nowhere unless you bother to go and get qualified as an accountant by doing your CA or CPA. People do accounting at uni to prepare them for these programs, although they are compulsory to gain entry. However, I would argue that is because the program is more regulated. Compare that with the CFA, I don't see your point of how it is a waste of time doing a Finance major, which will help you in completing your CFA. It is exactly the same logic as to why people do accounting subjects at uni. Also, there are so many masters programs that are meant to coincide with CFA content. Further, in the CA or CPA you go way beyond what you studied at university in accounting, the same as what would happen in the CFA. So any criticism based on that is frivolous.

Economics and Econometrics again leads you nowhere unless you bother to do honours in them. That's the benefit of Actuarial studies in that it is a profession that has a structured qualification program.

I would say that if you really have a problem with what you have learnt in finance do honours in it and maybe finally there you will get the skills you want. Or rather do a Masters. The finance major isn't as irrelevant as you seem to make it. You need it to get into a Masters; it doesn't hurt when going for jobs. Comparing it to people who have done engineering and science, and how they also get interviews is just not a true reflection because a lot of those people may have in fact done finance.

EDIT: Also, I didn't want to do finance all the way through uni until last year last year, so now im scrambling to finish a finance major in a year. All that time up until recently I thought finance was a completely useless major. Now I can see some of the benefits of majoring in it. But seriously, you're doing actuarial studies and sounds like you are going to get through it, I doubt your going to struggle finding work with your shit finance major.

 

[schmeichung]

I understand what you are trying to say completely about it being soft. However, I think you are being a bit harsh. Finance is just as challenging as econometrics or economics. Accounting is a whole different ball game.

Look let’s be frank. Accounting leads you nowhere unless you do a CA or CPA. Oh and also you don't need to do accounting at uni to become an accountant and start your CA program, much like your point about the CFA. But arguing that is useless. My main point is, if not finance then what? I hate to break it to you but only about 12 people per uni will finish in honours in econometrics and they are the people who will gain any benefit from doing that major. The rest really are not that impressive.

You are really focusing on 12 people...maybe you could have done well in econometrics and so yeah then that would have been a better choice for you. However, just because finance wasn't what you expected doesn't mean it's the worst major ever. Try going to International Business lectures or Management ones.

As for accounting as I said, that leads nowhere unless you bother to go and get qualified as an accountant by doing your CA or CPA. People do accounting at uni to prepare them for these programs, although they are compulsory to gain entry. However, I would argue that is because the program is more regulated. Compare that with the CFA, I don't see your point of how it is a waste of time doing a Finance major, which will help you in completing your CFA. It is exactly the same logic as to why people do accounting subjects at uni. Also, there are so many masters programs that are meant to coincide with CFA content. Further, in the CA or CPA you go way beyond what you studied at university in accounting, the same as what would happen in the CFA. So any criticism based on that is frivolous.

Economics and Econometrics again leads you nowhere unless you bother to do honours in them. That's the benefit of Actuarial studies in that it is a profession that has a structured qualification program.

I would say that if you really have a problem with what you have learnt in finance do honours in it and maybe finally there you will get the skills you want. Or rather do a Masters. The finance major isn't as irrelevant as you seem to make it. You need it to get into a Masters; it doesn't hurt when going for jobs. Comparing it to people who have done engineering and science, and how they also get interviews is just not a true reflection because a lot of those people may have in fact done finance.

EDIT: Also, I didn't want to do finance all the way through uni until last year last year, so now im scrambling to finish a finance major in a year. All that time up until recently I thought finance was a completely useless major. Now I can see some of the benefits of majoring in it. But seriously, you're doing actuarial studies and sounds like you are going to get through it, I doubt your going to struggle finding work with your shit finance major.

u have to complete the accounting/legal courses in order to gain entry of CA/CPA if I am not mistaken, but this is not the case to CFA. Thats why I said undergrad study of accounting is way more valuable than finance.

I am not sure, but I dont see a reason why a person who study accounting doesnt want CA/CPA, unless they study accounting only for PR/citizenship, or they hate accounting after studying it. If u want to be an accountant/auditor, CA/CPA is almost a must and many firms require u eligible to take CA/CPA.

What I mean about finance and CFA is u can simply go study CFA materials without finance background, of course it could help but I dont think this is necessary, but for accounting studying accounting/legt courses ARE necessary to be eligible to earn CA/CPA, or there may be some routes but it could take u few more years for sure.

And no, actuarial is not that prestigous as everyone thinks. I dont understand why u think actuarial is good just because it is difficult/heavy workload? I got an interview from a quant last week (but not quant job), he even questioned me why I studied actuarial if I wanted to be a quant. He said u should do physics/maths/engineering instead of commerce. So u can see actuarial is not really relevant if u dont want to be an actuary.

And no, again. u DONT need finance major to take Masters if u r referring to MFINS. My friend done BSci without finance major but she is now studying MFINS. I also wondered why but this is what she told me.

 

[aja152]

So u can see actuarial is not really relevant if u dont want to be an actuary.

are you for real?? o.o

 

[schmeichung]

are you for real?? o.o

My impression is that you dont have to study actuarial if you are not sure about being an actuary. I guess there are many people who have false impression that studying actuarial is sort of "prerequisite" to enter ibank/quant/trader but in fact it is not true. Everybody can enter ibank regardless what you study, many engineering/physics people also do ibank.

As for quants, firms actually look for MFinEng or even PhD if im not mistaken.

Many traders start as an ITers and then being traders afterwards

After having several interviews non-actuarial jobs, I didnt feel I had any special treatment having actuarial major.

 

[Casmira]

u have to complete the accounting/legal courses in order to gain entry of CA/CPA if I am not mistaken, but this is not the case to CFA. Thats why I said undergrad study of accounting is way more valuable than finance.

I am not sure, but I dont see a reason why a person who study accounting doesnt want CA/CPA, unless they study accounting only for PR/citizenship, or they hate accounting after studying it. If u want to be an accountant/auditor, CA/CPA is almost a must and many firms require u eligible to take CA/CPA.

What I mean about finance and CFA is u can simply go study CFA materials without finance background, of course it could help but I dont think this is necessary, but for accounting studying accounting/legt courses ARE necessary to be eligible to earn CA/CPA, or there may be some routes but it could take u few more years for sure.

And no, actuarial is not that prestigous as everyone thinks. I dont understand why u think actuarial is good just because it is difficult/heavy workload? I got an interview from a quant last week (but not quant job), he even questioned me why I studied actuarial if I wanted to be a quant. He said u should do physics/maths/engineering instead of commerce. So u can see actuarial is not really relevant if u dont want to be an actuary.

And no, again. u DONT need finance major to take Masters if u r referring to MFINS. My friend done BSci without finance major but she is now studying MFINS. I also wondered why but this is what she told me.

see im trying to do masters of finance, although its not necessary to have a finance major. i imagine it'd help right?

 

[Conspirocy]

u have to complete the accounting/legal courses in order to gain entry of CA/CPA

Yeah I said that in my last post. It does not make it more valuable it just means they have a structured way they want you to learn accounting.

I am not sure, but I dont see a reason why a person who study accounting doesnt want CA/CPA, unless they study accounting only for PR/citizenship, or they hate accounting after studying it. If u want to be an accountant/auditor, CA/CPA is almost a must and many firms require u eligible to take CA/CPA.

So then why did you recomend studying accounting instead of finance when you have no intention of ever working as an accountant?

What I mean about finance and CFA is u can simply go study CFA materials without finance background, of course it could help but I dont think this is necessary, but for accounting studying accounting/legt courses ARE necessary to be eligible to earn CA/CPA, or there may be some routes but it could take u few more years for sure.

You can do a completely different degree. Even a B Com in actuarial and finance and then it would take you exactly one year to then gain entry to the CA program. So it doesnt take a few more years

And no, actuarial is not that prestigous as everyone thinks.

I don't think I ever said it was. You come of as though it is because finance is so shit compared to all the stuff you have learnt in your actuarial classes.

And no, again. u DONT need finance major to take Masters if u r referring to MFINS. My friend done BSci without finance major but she is now studying MFINS. I also wondered why but this is what she told me.

Yeah you keep saying you don't need to do something. I keep saying that is true but it would help. Just because you don't need to do something doesn't make it completely worthless. Again, you are taking extreme cases as your examples and I'm trying to talk about normal people.

 

[schmeichung]

Yeah I said that in my last post. It does not make it more valuable it just means they have a structured way they want you to learn accounting.



So then why did you recomend studying accounting instead of finance when you have no intention of ever working as an accountant?




You can do a completely different degree. Even a B Com in actuarial and finance and then it would take you exactly one year to then gain entry to the CA program. So it doesnt take a few more years


I don't think I ever said it was. You come of as though it is because finance is so shit compared to all the stuff you have learnt in your actuarial classes.



Yeah you keep saying you don't need to do something. I keep saying that is true but it would help. Just because you don't need to do something doesn't make it completely worthless. Again, you are taking extreme cases as your examples and I'm trying to talk about normal people.

It really depends how you define usefulness. For me, if firms not recognising finance major much, then I guess its not useful.

Yes, u r right. There r many materials in finance I can already learnt from actuarial courses. You may ask your actuarial friends and I guess most of them would answer the same.

What would u like to work with your finance major then?

 

[schmeichung]

see im trying to do masters of finance, although its not necessary to have a finance major. i imagine it'd help right?

Of course it will help but I think it is more important to consider what u want to achieve by doing master of finance

As for myself, I have actually got an offer of MActSt and I was considering whether I should spend one year FT to further enhance my coursework knowledge in actuarial as well as earning associateship. But then I think studying MActSt is not really useful (see my definition above) and its not necessary to do the associateship through master degree, so I declined the offer.

 

[Conspirocy]

It really depends how you define usefulness. For me, if firms not recognising finance major much, then I guess its not useful.

Yes, u r right. There r many materials in finance I can already learnt from actuarial courses. You may ask your actuarial friends and I guess most of them would answer the same.

What would u like to work with your finance major then?

Baiscally I want to work as an economist. I have been told that you have to have your honours to do that. I have also been told to do Finance, specifically this person stressed to me that I learn applied corporate finance at UNSW. They said that it will open up my avenues as an economist in terms of areas I can work. I've also been told that A lot of economists get sent back to do a Master of Finance (which is basically an undergraduate Finance major in their case). That's what I'm looking to get out of it.

 

[tempco]

If you're looking to work as economist, IMO a finance major from UNSW would be a nice way to get some background/basic info on financial concepts. It makes certain things a lot easier to pick up... the concept of risk-return, risk premiums, bond pricing, etc. were very useful in the work force. Yes, you could have picked it all up eventually, but these little things are great when you've got a whole lot of other things you have to learn on the job.

 

[Conspirocy]

If you're looking to work as economist, IMO a finance major from UNSW would be a nice way to get some background/basic info on financial concepts. It makes certain things a lot easier to pick up... the concept of risk-return, risk premiums, bond pricing, etc. were very useful in the work force. Yes, you could have picked it all up eventually, but these little things are great when you've got a whole lot of other things you have to learn on the job.

Someone gets it. Are you doing your honours now or finishing up?

 

[tempco]

Starting up honours this year. Heaps of reading to get through.

 

[Casmira]

lucky bastard i failed qma once so i cant do honours, i have to take the masters road