Federal Aboriginal intervention (1 Viewer)

[Aryanbeauty]

You know, it's great to see so many of BOS's traditional bleeding heart libertarians, ON THIS FORUM, supporting this move to protect Australia's indigenous people. It's just amazing, the great show of compassion that the long list of libertarians on this thread support protecting Aboriginals so much.

Aryanbeauty.. YET ANOTHER bleeding heart hippy with a soft spot in his heart for Australia's Indigenous people. Awww, you make me feel all warm and cosy.

I support this policy simply because I hate paedophile like you who are pissed off because your right to rape children are gonna be taken away by John Howard

 

[Justin]

How's your UWS degree going?

I don't go to UWS.

How's your troll account going?

I support this policy simply because I hate paedophile like you who are pissed off because your right to rape children are gonna be taken away by John Howard

Yep. He's taking it away. Simple stuff.

 

[jimmayyy]

I don't go to UWS.

How's your troll account going?

me, the troll? dont make me laugh, pal.

FYI; my hsc is going very well. ranking wise:

ext eng 2: 4th
ext eng 1: 1st
adv eng: 2nd
mod hist: 2nd
legal studies: 6th
music 1: 1st

 

[Justin]

me, the troll? dont make me laugh, pal.

It's not my fault you're suffering a case of trollamititis.

FYI; my hsc is going very well. ranking wise:

ext eng 2: 4th
ext eng 1: 1st
adv eng: 2nd
mod hist: 2nd
legal studies: 6th
music 1: 1st

Music

 

[Justin]

If half as many people are Libertarians as Justin says there are (As an epithet, hilarious)

what?

 

[AlleyCat]

i usually agree with bob brown on most things, but he and the rest of those nay-saying politicians have to get the fuck over themselves before people (like me) perhaps wrongly begin to associate them with apologists for rape.

what do they want the leader of this country to do? stand up for people that can't protect themselves, or engage in more pointless and time-wasting community mediation?

 

[BritneySpears]

Lateline on ABC said Abo's parents are hiding their kids for fear of abduction by Soldiers and Police

 

[yourfacehere!]

As a very, very short term plan, for a select number of communities in the NT, Howard's plan is a neccessity. The situation in some places is that dire.

Alcohol should be banned in all Aboriginal communities, alongside pornography and gambling. But this should be the responsibilty of the Elders - self-determination is crucial in the long run.

It is interesting to note that two of the most succesful communities in the NT have already banned alcohol, locked the petrol bowsers and work on a permit system - and this was the work of the Elders of both communities, an act of self-determination.
In case you were curious, the names of the two communities are Amata and Utopia.

Storming the communities with police officers and troops will obviously be demeaning for the communities, but so many of the communities are in such a dire state that there is little alternative, as much must be accepted. When the rights of the child are being abused in such a horrendous fashion, action must be taken.

Of course this is a fantastic opportunity for right-wing bigots to gt on their high horse - as this thread has already seen. Before we move on, this situation is the result of white actions alone; before the occupation of land, the removal of children and the deliberate destruction of culture, alongside the introduction of alcohol, drugs and pornography, none of these problems existed. Aboriginal leaders have seen this, and moved to ban alcohol, drugs and pornography, and the results have been fantastic.

The reason alcohol, drugs and pornography are such an issue in Aboriginal communities is genetic - Aboriginal people do not share the white association with such material, and cannot handle it in the same way.

The most important factor in the proposed action should be the long-term factors. Work with the local people, especially the established and emerging leaders, because their influence in the community is far greater than any white attempt. Keep the restrictions, but phase out the heavy military and police presence fairly quickly (keep some police presence of course, but not a dominating presence that will just cause tension).

And Justin, just give up. You're digging a hole, its embarassing. The left doesn't want you, and from what I can gather, neither does the right. Shhhh.
I'm sorry, but in this case, you're the dork.

 

[_dhj_]

yourfacehere! is spot on I reckon. A large cause of the alcohol problem for aborigines is in their genetic makeup (liver size, to simplify the issue). In the face of political correctness, we have to acknowledge that from an evolutionary perspectives, aborigines have not been as exposed to alcohol compared to other cultures. So there is a need to construe special policies for alcohol abuse.

Of course here, Howard is trying to score political points aswell. It is a typical populist policy that the majority of the population (predominantly non-aboriginal) will agree with.

 

[jb_nc]

Of course this is a fantastic opportunity for right-wing bigots to gt on their high horse - as this thread has already seen. Before we move on, this situation is the result of white actions alone; before the occupation of land, the removal of children and the deliberate destruction of culture, alongside the introduction of alcohol, drugs and pornography, none of these problems existed. Aboriginal leaders have seen this, and moved to ban alcohol, drugs and pornography, and the results have been fantastic.

**Massive white guilt found**

How is it white man's fault if these people can't take their hand from the cookie jar because they've never done it before?

 

[isograph]

Even though Justin has made probably over 20 posts in this thread, at no point can i see where he has actually suggested what exactly should be done about the situation instead of this intervention. Do you think doing nothing would be better?

 

[yourfacehere!]

**Massive white guilt found**

How is it white man's fault if these people can't take their hand from the cookie jar because they've never done it before?

The three problems at the heart of the issue (apart from the very deep problems of unemployment, housing and welfare dependency) are alcohol, substance abuse and pornography. As much was outlined in Little Children Are Sacred (creepiest name ever, might I add). These three problems were brought to the forefront as they have the potential to be relatively easily solved.

Now take another look at the three substances I just mentioned - alcohol, drugs (mainly marajuana and petrol) and porn. Three incredibly addictive substances (porn addiction is a known mental illness). Each of these substances holds a huge risk of addiction to any normal person.

So take into account the genetic differences between Aboriginal Australians and most other Australians, who have a long history of contact with most substances listed above, and it is clear that the risk of addiction and abuse of such substances is huge in Aboriginal communities.

So why is it our fault? Because not only did we give it to them, but we put them in a situation where a retreat to such substances is attractive - depression and other mental illness is rampant, and getting stoned or trashed is a welcome escape. As for porno, such a sexual culture as ours never existed in Aboriginal history, so porn is not an established 'taboo'. We put them in a crap situation, gave them alcohol and drugs, loaded them up with welfare and wonder why many communities degenerated into little more than hell - then blame them for it.

Of course, this is a description of the very worst communities. There are many more in which the situation is far less dire, but the fact that any communities exist in such a state is embarassing enough.

So in case you haven't figured it out, yes I do feel guilty, and (i believe) rightly so.

 

[PrinceHarry]

No I dont feel guilty for the slightest bit for the social conditions of aborigines. I did not force them to drink alcohol and I did not force them to rape their kids. They did it in their own accord and they should be responsible for it if they are humans. They need to learn some lesson from Red Indian in america and canada.

 

[withoutaface]

You know, it's great to see so many of BOS's traditional bleeding heart libertarians, ON THIS FORUM, supporting this move to protect Australia's indigenous people. It's just amazing, the great show of compassion that the long list of libertarians on this thread support protecting Aboriginals so much.

Get fucked, this move is in no way libertarian. It's applying another layer of state intervention to solve a problem caused by the inefficient management of the state in the first place (in this case giving out welfare cheques like lollies). We need to attack the root of the problem (i.e. phase them off welfare), and while that sounds a bit harsh, it's the only way we're ever going to see long term change in the indigenous community. As it stands they'll always find some new substance to abuse, in many cases even worse for their health than the one that's been taken away.

 

[jimmayyy]

i thought the Abo reaction on the TV news the other day was whack as fuck

Abo Council Member: I fear there will be another stolen generation of aboriginal children if the government examines them and finds signs of abuse.

of course your children will be taken away from you if there is evidence of horrific abuse. the government takes away kids from any abusive parent if the situation calls for it.

 

[banco55]

Get fucked, this move is in no way libertarian. It's applying another layer of state intervention to solve a problem caused by the inefficient management of the state in the first place (in this case giving out welfare cheques like lollies). We need to attack the root of the problem (i.e. phase them off welfare), and while that sounds a bit harsh, it's the only way we're ever going to see long term change in the indigenous community. As it stands they'll always find some new substance to abuse, in many cases even worse for their health than the one that's been taken away.

Problem is most of these aboriginal communities could not survive without government money. So the end result of taking away the welfare would mostly likely be they'd all go into town.

 

[withoutaface]

Problem is most of these aboriginal communities could not survive without government money. So the end result of taking away the welfare would mostly likely be they'd all go into town.

Yes, exactly, and they'd make themselves useful by finding jobs. Aboriginal communities in cities and regional centres, while not ideal, have a much better standard of living than those in the bush, and so this is a good starting point to fix the problem and integrate them into mainstream society.
Alternatively, should they choose not to do so, they can return to the bush and live off the land, so it's not going to be "forced assimilation" by any means, just saying that if you want to take the benefits of western society you must also bear the responsibilities.

 

[jb_nc]

tbh i wouldnt employee an abo and i doubt many other people would (unless there was something showing me otherwise they'd be good)

 

[withoutaface]

An ill educated one, yes. But the problem is that there are so many of them because the government fucked up by giving them welfare in the first place. Moving them to cities where school attendance can be more easily monitored allows us to ensure that future generations won't face this disadvantage when searching for employment.
The other option is to leave them where they are, with no jobs, and have them continue to be dead weight on society.

 

[Serius]

The three problems at the heart of the issue (apart from the very deep problems of unemployment, housing and welfare dependency) are alcohol, substance abuse and pornography. As much was outlined in Little Children Are Sacred (creepiest name ever, might I add). These three problems were brought to the forefront as they have the potential to be relatively easily solved.

Now take another look at the three substances I just mentioned - alcohol, drugs (mainly marajuana and petrol) and porn. Three incredibly addictive substances (porn addiction is a known mental illness). Each of these substances holds a huge risk of addiction to any normal person.

So take into account the genetic differences between Aboriginal Australians and most other Australians, who have a long history of contact with most substances listed above, and it is clear that the risk of addiction and abuse of such substances is huge in Aboriginal communities.

So why is it our fault? Because not only did we give it to them, but we put them in a situation where a retreat to such substances is attractive - depression and other mental illness is rampant, and getting stoned or trashed is a welcome escape. As for porno, such a sexual culture as ours never existed in Aboriginal history, so porn is not an established 'taboo'. We put them in a crap situation, gave them alcohol and drugs, loaded them up with welfare and wonder why many communities degenerated into little more than hell - then blame them for it.

Of course, this is a description of the very worst communities. There are many more in which the situation is far less dire, but the fact that any communities exist in such a state is embarassing enough.

So in case you haven't figured it out, yes I do feel guilty, and (i believe) rightly so.

Porn addiction? what the fuck is that? some sort of bullshit Christian propaganda no doubt. Let me put it this way: Its not a real addiction unless what you are taking puts chemicals into your body that cause a biological craving for that substance again. People who get addicted to games, myspace, porn whatever, thats not a real addiction because those people just have addictive personalities and are going to be "addicted" to just about anything.

Porn 'addiction' is no doubt people realizing they have a sex drive and utilizing more than Christian fundies what them to[which is basically never unless you are married and are doing it for procreation]

Weed isnt addictive. I dont know about petrol but iam going to guess it isnt either.

Even if they are, Howards solution is to rush in, get rid of everything and enforce it with the military. No counseling, no help. What the fuck? what kind of medieval way of dealing with addicts is this? You will have people dying from poisoning as they drink metho to try and get drunk rather than detoxing on their own. Send in the AA brigade to help, dont just send in the military.