Fahrenheit 9/11 (1 Viewer)

[chelloveck]

You dont think 'the right' resorts to telling lies and providing misleading implications?

i don't think anyone in here has said that, or even implied that. of course the right dishes out heaps of propaganda. but it was insightful of you to point that out.

 

[chelloveck]

Well its not like the 'right' doesnt lie to you. At least the left in the form of moore manipulates you for the better.

read my above post. i'm well aware that the right tries to lie to me, but that doesn't make moore lieing to me alright.

 

[chelloveck]

Also I think that somtimes to engage people's intellect, to grab their attention, you have to appeal to their emotion. If people couldn't be bothered dealing with a problem I think its better to at least allure them with emotion and then hit them with intelligence, rather than letting them ignore the issues altogether.

i think an emotional response is never good, given human nature. emotion blocks ratioanl though, and the ability to look at something rationally.


does anyone know hot to quote more than on message? it would save my triple posts.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I don't think there is any harm in what Moore has to say. The audience should be smart enough to view it with some level of critical thought. I saw the movie today, and personally, the parts that moved me the most had nothing to do with Bush's money/oil/saudis... the saddest parts for me were those that showed the reality and futility of war, and Moore is certainly not the first to point that out.

Iraq is not the first unjustified war. Yes, Bushie may have convered for his saudi friends, but think of WW1, think of Vietnam.... Iraq is certainly not the first unnecessary war, and Moore is right to criticize the motives for getting there.

You can't take everything he says as gospel, but I think the overriding messages rather than every nitty gritty fact is what is more important.

Did anyone watch the Panel the other night? One of them made a very valid point that it isn't really a documentary, it's more an opinion piece. I think that people need to realize that Moore's work is the equivalent of a visual opinion piece and just like the pieces in the paper, you may or may not agree with it.

And I think sometimes that anti-government lobbyists have to spin things to conteract the spin constructed by governments....... the whole world is spin, get used to it... you have to look at everything critically.

 

[Chemboy]

I think it should be pointed out Moore, at one stage, was so offended by claims of inaccuracy that he considered offering $10K US to anyone who can find any fundamental inaccuracies with the film! He actually got "New York Magazine" fact checkers to go over the film several times. On that note, it should be reminded that Moore's effectively a director, not necessarily a journalist, and having said that, it is possible for his material to suffer bias. However, is there any pro-war media released (not by the government)?

 

[cayte]

My essential problem with the man and his philosophies, his behaviours, the way he goes about doing things is the mania that surrounds him and everything he does. He presents his ideas and opinions as incontrovertible truths and people treat him as a leader and revelatory individual. It has all the markings of a cult. A cult hinders and discourages independent thought. Hence people, young people especially with a desire to define themselves as having some sort of social conscience and being intellectual and wise, saying that they unequivocally agree with an entire individual. Perhaps it gives you a sense of self-worth to believe something so "out-there" and "gutsy" with such passion, maybe you feel that by completely accepting these ideas you will be imbued with the same inflated importance of the man who conveys them. It's fine to see merit in Moore's ideas and the way he conveys them, but to say you "agree completely with Michael Moore" and everything for which he stands shows a naivety and immaturity of thought.

 

[Iron]

Fair enough.
How do you guys think it compares to columbine? I think he probably wanted to get this one out before the nest election.

 

[Egg_666]

not really fair enough but it'll do... for now (when my hands get over the reconciliation debate in "Merlin... Again"... i'll start here

Once again Moore's movie doesnt suggest an answer... Columbine was the same... but it doesnt need to... columbine was more of a doco than this one... less arguable... this one was contentious... and he took a couple of cheap shots with all the make up bits...

but i liked it... very sad... parts of it brought tears to my eyes... those who saw it will know when (mother being interviewed)...

but i already knew most of this stuff before moore said it... i mean... the fact that bush had bankrupted 3 businesses i didnt know!!! like i mean... 1 is ok... you can overextend yourself... the market changes... thigns go haywire... i can udnerstand that... BUT THREE?? thats downright impossible... without massive negligence...

Bush's slowness to react at the kindegarten to the terrorist attacks was hilarious... as well as the ending which i would hate to ruin for anyone...

its hilarious

bush is an idiot... moore is sensationalist in this one (much more so than columbine) but desperate times call for desperate measures

 

[Egg_666]

its certainly not winning best doco of the year this time tho

 

[christ_ine]

I thought it was rather amusing. Especially the way he took ordinary songs and somehow made them fit into the storyline.

 

[Beaky]

I thought it was rather amusing. Especially the way he took ordinary songs and somehow made them fit into the storyline.

Joey Scarbary- Believe or Not... best bit ever...

 

[thorrnydevil]

Where seeing it tomorrow night for school. Its an ALP fundraiser-YUK!!! The movie is gonna be followed by a discussion-I can't wait to dig into these left wing commos!!! I think Moore is really biased but if your smart enough to see the movie you'll see he's a cock!!!

 

[Nick]

yeah and if you're really really smart you'll see the irony of your post

 

[thorrnydevil]

WTF?!? Nick, are you high?

 

[Tommy_Lamp]

why is moore a cock?

please elaborate

 

[thorrnydevil]

Its just my pro-war view Tommy, nothing else. He's really biased and cuts important pieces of info out.

 

[Tommy_Lamp]

what i find good about moore is that he is they match for the republicans, the contort information, they cut important pieces out. and Moore isnt anti-war, hes anti the reason WHY they went to war, even Kerry said that he would goto war.
also, moore isnt completely biased, he presents the information about whoever is in power. in his older documentaries "Roger & Me" and "The Big One" he points out the flaws of the current president (clinton me thinks)

 

[cj_bridle]

moore just hit gross takings of $100,000,000 with fahrenheit...

hmmm... i wonder if he really is producing this 'documentary' for the 'truth'.

 

[Tommy_Lamp]

er...yes, yes he is...hes been making this kind of documentaries for years, at the start he made crap all

 

[cj_bridle]

okay, heres my 2c

i believe that what moore displays is based on truth, but he has to exaggerate and draw inferences producing what some might call a 'half truth'. He has to do this because he presenting his opinions to the world, who might not see what he wanted to see if he didnt spell it out really clearly.

by doing this he does open himself up to criticism from people who accuse him of lying by mixing fact with tricky editing techniques etc.. but overall he has to make a compromise between choosing how to represent his opinion, even though it means compromising some of the forms of a true documentary.

his films arent documentaries, they are based on truth. and the messages are somewhat true. but the films themselves are just propoganda.