Doing Maths Extension 2 without doing Physics, and I am so scared. (1 Viewer)

[skibidi99atar]

Hi All,
I am a student that goes to a pretty good selective school (Top 5 in the State) and am in year 12 right now. I have decided to pick english advanced, chemistry, biology and 4units of maths. I have finished vectors (extension 1) and whilst I am confident with most of the topic, the section where physical application of vectors like physics questions that use vectors to solve scare me because I feel like I have no conceptual understanding of these physical problems (I will attach one to this post, it is from a past paper). I am afraid that one of these questions will pop up in the exam and I will mess up that whole concept just because I don't have a good understanding of what's going on). Now, coming to extension 2 maths, I am scared the same thing will happen. Whilst I am learning mechanics or motion, I will not have a good conceptual understanding of what's going on unlike the physics kids who will know exactly what is going on. I would like to hear from people that did maths extension 2 but not physics and how they grasped onto the knowledge without doing physics, meaning they were not disadvantaged by not choosing physics. Others, could you please give me some ideas on how to get this conceptual understanding of the subject? I am good at maths, but I just need to know what's going on. Please and thank you.

 

[skibidi99atar]

If anyone has any advice or even thoughts, feel free to just post it here, anything helps

 

[killer queen]

this is one of the few times my experience is actually relevant - this time last year, I asked the exact same thing. 4U without physics is certainly daunting - I don't go to nearly as prestigious a school as you, so my class was very small, and I was the only one who didn't do physics. I ended up coming first, and have probably (hopefully) secured an E4. I know this means less considering I just had a much much smaller class, but this should be evidence enough that it's definitely doable.

mechanics is scary, but the entire projectile part is something you'll definitely be able to do (just a harder version of projectile in 3U). for me, what helped most was just understanding forces as vectors - because if you're fine with vectors, you'll be fine with forces. there is nothing you need to know that won't be in the question - they look scary, but honestly just sitting down and taking it all in really helps.

I don't know what you mean exactly by getting a "conceptual understanding", but anecdotally, I have heard that 4U helps physics more than physics helps 4U. literally the only things physics really helps with is force diagrams in those slope questions, and pulleys - but since you're not allowed to use physics methods, their knowledge doesn't really translate to anything. in fact, approaching everything from a mathematical perspective might actually give you an advantage, as other people get tripped up with their pre-existing physics knowledge. for me, the hardest thing to wrap my head around was direction, so getting comfortable with that might help. also, the relationship between magnitude, angle, and the vector itself (something that gets drilled into your head in complex anyways). come mechanics, you'll be equipped with the toolkit you need to understand it!

for me, external textbooks actually confused me more than just learning the content in class, so this is the one time I wouldn't recommend it. I personally feel that having a living breathing teacher to direct questions to really helped, so if you have a tutor, you could go ahead and learn it early, but it's absolutely not necessary. if you have a comfortable grasp on vectors, then mechanics won't be as bad as you think.

this was longer than expected - hope this helps!

 

[skibidi99atar]

this is one of the few times my experience is actually relevant - this time last year, I asked the exact same thing. 4U without physics is certainly daunting - I don't go to nearly as prestigious a school as you, so my class was very small, and I was the only one who didn't do physics. I ended up coming first, and have probably (hopefully) secured an E4. I know this means less considering I just had a much much smaller class, but this should be evidence enough that it's definitely doable.

mechanics is scary, but the entire projectile part is something you'll definitely be able to do (just a harder version of projectile in 3U). for me, what helped most was just understanding forces as vectors - because if you're fine with vectors, you'll be fine with forces. there is nothing you need to know that won't be in the question - they look scary, but honestly just sitting down and taking it all in really helps.

I don't know what you mean exactly by getting a "conceptual understanding", but anecdotally, I have heard that 4U helps physics more than physics helps 4U. literally the only things physics really helps with is force diagrams in those slope questions, and pulleys - but since you're not allowed to use physics methods, their knowledge doesn't really translate to anything. in fact, approaching everything from a mathematical perspective might actually give you an advantage, as other people get tripped up with their pre-existing physics knowledge. for me, the hardest thing to wrap my head around was direction, so getting comfortable with that might help. also, the relationship between magnitude, angle, and the vector itself (something that gets drilled into your head in complex anyways). come mechanics, you'll be equipped with the toolkit you need to understand it!

for me, external textbooks actually confused me more than just learning the content in class, so this is the one time I wouldn't recommend it. I personally feel that having a living breathing teacher to direct questions to really helped, so if you have a tutor, you could go ahead and learn it early, but it's absolutely not necessary. if you have a comfortable grasp on vectors, then mechanics won't be as bad as you think.

this was longer than expected - hope this helps!

Ah I see, thank you so much for your input. You don't know how much confidence you've given me now, feel like I can take on the world hearing your experience. Tysm and wish you all the best for your future studies

 

[Tony Stark]

Hi All,
I am a student that goes to a pretty good selective school (Top 5 in the State) and am in year 12 right now. I have decided to pick english advanced, chemistry, biology and 4units of maths. I have finished vectors (extension 1) and whilst I am confident with most of the topic, the section where physical application of vectors like physics questions that use vectors to solve scare me because I feel like I have no conceptual understanding of these physical problems (I will attach one to this post, it is from a past paper). I am afraid that one of these questions will pop up in the exam and I will mess up that whole concept just because I don't have a good understanding of what's going on). Now, coming to extension 2 maths, I am scared the same thing will happen. Whilst I am learning mechanics or motion, I will not have a good conceptual understanding of what's going on unlike the physics kids who will know exactly what is going on. I would like to hear from people that did maths extension 2 but not physics and how they grasped onto the knowledge without doing physics, meaning they were not disadvantaged by not choosing physics. Others, could you please give me some ideas on how to get this conceptual understanding of the subject? I am good at maths, but I just need to know what's going on. Please and thank you.View attachment 50174

The forces can be arranged as the sides of the triangle, AKA a vector diagram. We have a perpendicular height from gravity (You can move the force line as long as it is the same points and relative angle) which is 9.81*20 (F=ma=mg). So it is just basic right-angled trigonometry from there to find the forces, which are presumable add up to negate gravity.

(sorry I got excited because this is the only types of questions I can answer from extension math)

 

[C2H6O]

Hi All,
I am a student that goes to a pretty good selective school (Top 5 in the State) and am in year 12 right now. I have decided to pick english advanced, chemistry, biology and 4units of maths. I have finished vectors (extension 1) and whilst I am confident with most of the topic, the section where physical application of vectors like physics questions that use vectors to solve scare me because I feel like I have no conceptual understanding of these physical problems (I will attach one to this post, it is from a past paper). I am afraid that one of these questions will pop up in the exam and I will mess up that whole concept just because I don't have a good understanding of what's going on). Now, coming to extension 2 maths, I am scared the same thing will happen. Whilst I am learning mechanics or motion, I will not have a good conceptual understanding of what's going on unlike the physics kids who will know exactly what is going on. I would like to hear from people that did maths extension 2 but not physics and how they grasped onto the knowledge without doing physics, meaning they were not disadvantaged by not choosing physics. Others, could you please give me some ideas on how to get this conceptual understanding of the subject? I am good at maths, but I just need to know what's going on. Please and thank you.View attachment 50174

as someone who finished 4u before physics, i didn't struggle with any of the concepts, and when doing prelim physics it didn't help with mechanics cause they're pretty far apart. physics is just a bunch of algebra and 4u is like vectors and calculus so they dont really align at all. at the most year 11 physics breaking down vectors into components is the only overlap, and im sure most 3u students are familiar with how to do that already. besides, the main component of mechanics is projectile motion which method wise has no similarities to physics.

that question you've shown is a simple vector question is only covered in prelim physics or engineering, where you just break down force vectors and equate to net forces. drawing a free body diagram helps a lot with these questions, but this is also a common practise in maths so i doubt you'll be disadvantaged. this type of force question is rare to see in year 12 physics and only a very small part of 4u (so almost no overlap), AND the rest of 4u does not align with physics at all in terms of approaches to projectile motion (no overlap)

 

[Average Boreduser]

Hi All,
I am a student that goes to a pretty good selective school (Top 5 in the State) and am in year 12 right now. I have decided to pick english advanced, chemistry, biology and 4units of maths. I have finished vectors (extension 1) and whilst I am confident with most of the topic, the section where physical application of vectors like physics questions that use vectors to solve scare me because I feel like I have no conceptual understanding of these physical problems (I will attach one to this post, it is from a past paper). I am afraid that one of these questions will pop up in the exam and I will mess up that whole concept just because I don't have a good understanding of what's going on). Now, coming to extension 2 maths, I am scared the same thing will happen. Whilst I am learning mechanics or motion, I will not have a good conceptual understanding of what's going on unlike the physics kids who will know exactly what is going on. I would like to hear from people that did maths extension 2 but not physics and how they grasped onto the knowledge without doing physics, meaning they were not disadvantaged by not choosing physics. Others, could you please give me some ideas on how to get this conceptual understanding of the subject? I am good at maths, but I just need to know what's going on. Please and thank you.View attachment 50174

the way that mechanics is taught in physics is really diluted and not rigorous (in my opinion). I don't think that this will affect how you will perform in 4U. The only thing that transfered is mod 5 and its only a portion of it. If you are worried you can quickly breeze through the relevant sections. But tbch with you, I found learning the 4U method of approaching mechanics made it more rigorous and understandable that in phys. My 2 cents.

 

[skibidi99atar]

as someone who finished 4u before physics, i didn't struggle with any of the concepts, and when doing prelim physics it didn't help with mechanics cause they're pretty far apart. physics is just a bunch of algebra and 4u is like vectors and calculus so they dont really align at all. at the most year 11 physics breaking down vectors into components is the only overlap, and im sure most 3u students are familiar with how to do that already. besides, the main component of mechanics is projectile motion which method wise has no similarities to physics.

that question you've shown is a simple vector question is only covered in prelim physics or engineering, where you just break down force vectors and equate to net forces. drawing a free body diagram helps a lot with these questions, but this is also a common practise in maths so i doubt you'll be disadvantaged. this type of force question is rare to see in year 12 physics and only a very small part of 4u (so almost no overlap), AND the rest of 4u does not align with physics at all in terms of approaches to projectile motion (no overlap)

Ah, I see. Thank you so much for your input and best of luck with your future studies.

 

[skibidi99atar]

the way that mechanics is taught in physics is really diluted and not rigorous (in my opinion). I don't think that this will affect how you will perform in 4U. The only thing that transfered is mod 5 and its only a portion of it. If you are worried you can quickly breeze through the relevant sections. But tbch with you, I found learning the 4U method of approaching mechanics made it more rigorous and understandable that in phys. My 2 cents.

Thank you so much, all of these replies have helped me so much, thanks guys.

 

[yourlocaliga]

i did physics for 1 term and then i dropped it because it hurt me emotionally and i didnt understand anything and like tbh i had the same thought as you about the conceptual understanding stuff but i think honestly it was fine. vectors and mechanics lowkey were my worst topics in ext 1/2 at the start, and since mostly everyone else in my class did physics they understood it from the getgo perfectly and i was just kinda lost, but i think most people probably wouldnt struggle as much as i did, but even so it just took me a while longer to understand the concepts but in thelong run i dont think the physics people ended up with like more of an advantage or anything like that since im pre sure the style of question and the ways in whcih u needto understand things to do the questions is quite different so i thinkyoull be okay

 

[tsswhzl]

Hi All,
I am a student that goes to a pretty good selective school (Top 5 in the State) and am in year 12 right now. I have decided to pick english advanced, chemistry, biology and 4units of maths. I have finished vectors (extension 1) and whilst I am confident with most of the topic, the section where physical application of vectors like physics questions that use vectors to solve scare me because I feel like I have no conceptual understanding of these physical problems (I will attach one to this post, it is from a past paper). I am afraid that one of these questions will pop up in the exam and I will mess up that whole concept just because I don't have a good understanding of what's going on). Now, coming to extension 2 maths, I am scared the same thing will happen. Whilst I am learning mechanics or motion, I will not have a good conceptual understanding of what's going on unlike the physics kids who will know exactly what is going on. I would like to hear from people that did maths extension 2 but not physics and how they grasped onto the knowledge without doing physics, meaning they were not disadvantaged by not choosing physics. Others, could you please give me some ideas on how to get this conceptual understanding of the subject? I am good at maths, but I just need to know what's going on. Please and thank you.View attachment 50174

I am a student who did 4u without doing physics. to be honest im glad that i did because it was a subject that i didnt enjoy, it was very boring, not rigorous and sort of memory/formula based. Alot of the time you use a formula without being able to derive it yourself. I didn't score an e4 in 4u this year ( i got an e3) but that is mainly due to just doing about half a chapter in the textbook each week and 3 past papers before the exam. It didn't affect me at all not doing physics. To be honest, 4u make alot more sense and is pleasing to do. You will naturally learn how to do these questions once you have done a couple of tension and incline plane questions so do not sweat it! You've got this. And since you're obviously a lot more dedicated to studying than me, it will be all good.

 

[coolcat6778]

the example question you showed is common sense. object not accelerating = vectors sum is zero. It's just a vector problem with a bit of geometry, you don't have to care about the context that it's a rope and other bs.

the stuff u learn in physics that actually helps with ext 2 is just one module lol, module 5.

 

[coolcat6778]

method wise has no similarities to physics

one exception for 3u is this question. I derived the formulas s = ut + 1/2at^2, v = u + at, a = 0 and just used my hsc physics skills to answer the question. I don't think I actually spent any time doing 3u specific projectile motion questions (i lowkey gave up cause i realised they were just boring ass geometry problems). I did more projectile motion problems for hsc physics than for ext 1 or 2 combined.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

the way that mechanics is taught in physics is really diluted and not rigorous (in my opinion). I don't think that this will affect how you will perform in 4U. The only thing that transfered is mod 5 and its only a portion of it. If you are worried you can quickly breeze through the relevant sections. But tbch with you, I found learning the 4U method of approaching mechanics made it more rigorous and understandable that in phys. My 2 cents.

they can't make it more rigorous without adding other stuff like harmonic motion and rotational mechanics. i think the topics they do cover are covered well (they just don't mention integration or differentiation, even though they should).


Also 4u and 3u projectile motion is not the projectiles you'd do in university if you do physics in university. 4u and 3u projectile motion problems tend to be geometry problems. I'm lucky the 2025 3u one wasn't (it was basically a physics question I did before).