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Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

joujou_84

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GirlGoneMad said:
2 Tim 3:16, 17 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
true....once upon a time the bible wouldve been almost identical to the quran and torah however over the years it has been changed by man and so it cannot be said anymore that the bible is the "word of god" that is why i cant believe in what the bible says...some parts of it are gods words...but how can u tell which parts??
 

alien

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so you're saying that the Bible doesn't count as proof of God existing because it testifies of God? I thought it was God's existance being questioned not the Bible's credibility.
 
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original quote to which i retaliated...
somechick said:
Moonlight, Keirkegaard, and Noel Gallagher, if you people (i dont know your sex to call you guys/girls, so dont take "people" offensive) can offer another meaning/purpose etc please go ahead, since according to your philosophy, there is nothing, no god, and since there is nothing well, we are the supreme are we not?
then this is the reply to my retaliation...
somechick said:
1. lol, that post wasnt even directed at you so dont get so firey. go back to the page and see who i qouted.
2. I never said you cannot do all that stuff without belief. Please re-read.
3. We are not EXACTLY like animals. But I can see some people displaying that kind of character.
4. If you think that your that unimportant, insignificant as to think of your afterlife that way, go for your life (?) . What were you before you were born?
Clearly you're only here to do some bible bashing, and not open your ears so go on.
That post wasn't even directed at me aye? Well then why the fuck did u mention my name, along with two others in the middle of an earlier post to which I retaliated? Why did you ask us to offer another opinion when you so obviously didn't want to hear it and have to put up with it?

Ooo, and very cute call about the animals... And by the way, we are animals, we are mammals. Mammals are animals. Animals are mammals...Ooo it's a vicious cycle.

4. that point you made makes no sense.

Clearly you're only here to do some bible bashing
And CLEARLY I'm here to make my point in regards to the topic question 'DOES GOD EXIST' - To which I say no. And to support my statement I have provided my reasoning. This is a forum, in which people are invited to show their opinions.

'... And not open your ears' ... do you think I came here to become enlightened? I think not. You seem to expect me to open my ears to your side of the arguement while you blatantly dismiss mine without any sort of logical thought. I don't accept your opinions as my own, but I can accept them as your beliefs even if I don't seem to show it because I'm so wrapped up in answering to stupid, unlogical arguements.
 

budj

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Then what about other religions that refutes the premise of an omnipresentbeing. Historical evidence is nounting in the legitimacy of the claims (such as in budhism)...
 

midori_

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somechick said:
Exactly. Many people are basing their arguements on the bible, esp. those who are against belief. Which sucks because, while they keep telling us to take philosophy classes for our intellectual and 'spiritual well-being', they have no clue about Islam.

While some others are integrating their personal issues into this arguement, esp noel gallagher who keeps on using profanities at me as a way to 'rationally' argue his point. Keep it up.

what profanities has noel_gallagher used? the jebus call?

you just can't take anyone elses opinions other than your own, typical fucking religious freak.
 

midori_

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soha said:
i say god exists
but im not gonan flood this thread with pages and pages of "proof"
Ah, did I flood this thread with pages of proof? No I believe all I said was 'NO', fucking idiot.
 

soha

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midori_ said:
Ah, did I flood this thread with pages of proof? No I believe all I said was 'NO', fucking idiot.
um i wanst meaning it to u
i meant like yay u dont either..
u just say no i dont and thast that
unlike other people who flood it
gegez..take it the wrong way
okaaay
 

GirlGoneMad

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The Bible

The Bible itself says it is from God, mankind's Creator

2 Tim. 3:16, 17: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

Rev. 1:1: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place."

2 Sam. 23:1, 2: "The utterance of David the son of Jesse . . . The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his word was upon my tongue."

Isa. 22:15: "This is what the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies, has said."

We would expect God's message to all mankind to be available around the globe. The Bible, the whole or in part, has been translated into some 1,800 languages. Its circulation totals in the billions. Says The World Book Encyclopedia: "The Bible is the most widely read book in history. It is probably also the most influential. More copies have been distributed of the Bible than of any other book. It has also been translated more times into more languages than any other book."
Bible prophecy explains the meaning of world conditions

Many world leaders acknowledge that mankind is on the brink of disaster. The Bible foretold these conditions long ago; it explains their meaning and what the outcome will be. (2 Tim. 3:1-5; Luke 21:25-31) It tells what we must do in order to survive the impending world destruction, with the opportunity to gain eternal life under righteous conditions here on earth.-Zeph. 2:3; John 17:3; Ps. 37:10, 11, 29.

The Bible enables us to understand the purpose of life

It answers such questions as: Where did life come from? (Acts 17:24-26) Why are we here? Is it just to live a few years, get what we can out of life, and then die?-Gen. 1:27, 28; Rom. 5:12; John 17:3; Ps. 37:11; Ps. 40:8.

The Bible shows how we can have the very things that lovers of righteousness desire most

It tells us where to find wholesome associates who truly love one another (John 13:35), what can give assurance that we will have sufficient food for ourselves and our families (Matt. 6:31-33; Prov. 19:15; Eph. 4:28), how we can be happy in spite of difficult conditions that surround us.-Ps. 1:1, 2; 34:8; Luke 11:28; Acts 20:35.

It explains that God's Kingdom, his government, will remove the present wicked system (Dan. 2:44), and under its rule mankind will be able to enjoy perfect health and eternal life.-Rev. 21:3, 4; compare Isaiah 33:24.

Surely a book that claims to be from God, that explains both the meaning of world conditions and the purpose of life, and that shows how our problems will be solved is worthy of consideration.

It is filled with prophecies reflecting detailed knowledge of the future-something impossible for humans

2 Pet. 1:20, 21: "No prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit."

· Prophecy: Isa. 44:24, 27, 28; 45:1-4: "Jehovah . . . the One saying to the watery deep, 'Be evaporated; and all your rivers I shall dry up'; the One saying of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd, and all that I delight in he will completely carry out'; even in my saying of Jerusalem, 'She will be rebuilt,' and of the temple, 'You will have your foundation laid.' This is what Jehovah has said to his anointed one, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have taken hold of, to subdue before him nations, so that I may ungird even the hips of kings; to open before him the two-leaved doors, so that even the gates will not be shut: 'Before you I myself shall go, and the swells of land I shall straighten out. The copper doors I shall break in pieces, and the iron bars I shall cut down. . . . For the sake of my servant Jacob and of Israel my chosen one, I even proceeded to call you by your name.'" (Writing by Isaiah was completed by about 732 B.C.E.)

· Fulfillment: Cyrus had not been born when the prophecy was written. The Jews were not taken into exile to Babylon until 617-607 B.C.E., and Jerusalem and its temple were not destroyed until 607 B.C.E. In detail the prophecy was fulfilled starting in 539 B.C.E. Cyrus diverted the waters of the Euphrates River into an artificial lake, the river gates of Babylon were carelessly left open during feasting in the city, and Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians under Cyrus. Thereafter, Cyrus liberated the Jewish exiles and sent them back to Jerusalem with instructions to rebuild Jehovah's temple there.-The Encyclopedia Americana (1956), Vol. III, p. 9; Light From the Ancient Past (Princeton, 1959), Jack Finegan, pp. 227-229; "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial" (New York, 1983), pp. 282, 284, 295.

· Prophecy: Jer. 49:17, 18: "'Edom must become an object of astonishment. Everyone passing along by her will stare in astonishment and whistle on account of all her plagues. Just as in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and her neighbor towns,' Jehovah has said, 'no man will dwell there.'" (Jeremiah's recording of prophecies was completed by 580 B.C.E.)

· Fulfillment: "They [the Edomites] were driven from Palestine in the 2nd century B.C. by Judas Maccabæus, and in 109 B.C. John Hyrcanus, Maccabæan leader, extended the kingdom of Judah to include the w. part of Edomitic lands. In the 1st century B.C. Roman expansion swept away the last vestige of Edomitic independence . . . After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. . . . the name Idumæa [Edom] disappeared from history." (The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, 1952, Vol. 11, p. 4114) Notice that the fulfillment extends down to our day. In no way can it be argued that this prophecy was written after the events had taken place.

· Prophecy: Luke 19:41-44; 21:20, 21: "He [Jesus Christ] viewed the city [Jerusalem] and wept over it, saying: . . . 'The days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side, and they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.'" Two days later, he counseled his disciples: "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw." (Prophecy spoken by Jesus Christ in 33 C.E.)

· Fulfillment: Jerusalem revolted against Rome, and in 66 C.E. the Roman army under Cestius Gallus attacked the city. But, as Jewish historian Josephus reports, the Roman commander "suddenly called off his men, abandoned hope though he had suffered no reverse, and flying in the face of all reason retired from the City." (Josephus, the Jewish War, Penguin Classics, 1969, p. 167) This provided opportunity for Christians to flee from the city, which they did, moving to Pella, beyond the Jordan, according to Eusebius Pamphilus in his Ecclesiastical History. (Translated by C. F. Crusé, London, 1894, p. 75) Then around Passover time of the year 70 C.E. General Titus besieged the city, an encircling fence 4.5 miles (7.2 km) long was erected in just three days, and after five months Jerusalem fell. "Jerusalem itself was systematically destroyed and the Temple left in ruins. Archaeological work shows us today just how effective was the destruction of Jewish buildings all over the land."-The Bible and Archaeology (Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1962), J. A. Thompson, p. 299.

Its contents are scientifically sound on matters that human researchers discovered only at a later date

Origin of the Universe: Gen. 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." In 1978, astronomer Robert Jastrow wrote: "Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy."-God and the Astronomers (New York, 1978), p. 14.

Shape of Planet Earth: Isa. 40:22: "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth." In ancient times the general opinion was that the earth was flat. It was not until over 200 years after this Bible text had been written that a school of Greek philosophers reasoned that the earth likely was spherical, and in about another 300 years a Greek astronomer calculated the approximate radius of the earth. But the idea of a spherical earth was not the general view even then. Only in the 20th century has it been possible for humans to travel by airplane, and later into outer space and even to the moon, thus giving them a clear view of "the circle" of earth's horizon.

Animal Life: Lev. 11:6: "The hare . . . is a chewer of the cud." Though this was long attacked by some critics, the rabbit's cud chewing was finally observed by Englishman William Cowper in the 18th century. The unusual way in which it is done was described in 1940 in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, Vol. 110, Series A, pp. 159-163.

Its internal harmony is significant

This is especially so in view of the fact that the books of the Bible were recorded by some 40 men as diverse as king, prophet, herdsman, tax collector, and physician. They did the writing over a period of 1,610 years; so there was no opportunity for collusion. Yet their writings agree, even in the smallest detail. To appreciate the extent to which the various portions of the Bible are harmoniously intertwined, you must read and study it personally.

A report published in 1971 shows that there are possibly 6,000 handwritten copies containing all or part of the Hebrew Scriptures; the oldest dates back to the third century B.C.E. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, there are some 5,000 in Greek, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E. There are also many copies of early translations into other languages.

It is true that some translations of the Bible adhere more closely to what is in the original languages than others do. Modern paraphrase Bibles have taken liberties that at times alter the original meaning. Some translators have allowed personal beliefs to color their renderings. But these weaknesses can be identified by comparison of a variety of translations.
 

MoonlightSonata

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PEOPLE!

While I am open minded to the discussion of God, using Bible extracts in no way adds anything to your argument. That kind of reasoning is more circular than an obese Ubangi on a ferris wheel.

For example:

How do we know it is the word of God?
The Bible tells us so.
How can we trust the Bible?
It is the word of God.

How do we know it is the word of God?
The Bible tells us so.
How can we trust the Bible?
It is the word of God.

How do we know it is the word of God?
The Bible tells us so.
How can we trust the Bible?
It is the word of God.

etc.

Need I go on? Please please please stop quoting the Bible.


Small World
I just found out today that Waterfoul, who I have debated with on this forum, is actually a recently made friend of mine, and indeed a co-worker!
 
K

katie_tully

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Bible extracts = bad, especially after you've just told us that the bible shouldnt be taken literally.
 

waterfowl

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MoonlightSonata said:
Small World
I just found out today that Waterfowl, who I have debated with on this forum, is actually a recently made friend of mine, and indeed a co-worker!
Yes, and isn't it great that despite our obvious differences on this forum, we still get along :p And we even think quite alike.

So remember that when you are debating on here...you may be arguing with someone who is actually a really nice person who you would get along with really well....
 

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katie_tully said:
Bible extracts = bad, especially after you've just told us that the bible shouldnt be taken literally.
While some of us may have the sense to see these simple facts, hard core religious people (or hard-core anything) rarely can open their mind to even see the other sides (as some are afraid this is blasphemy or just too brain washed to see).
I think you can see the bible is at least human altered from its text (I mean it's so sexist, god is male, men have higher roles than women). It's so dated (does not have a problem with slavery, highly conservative views of the 1st Century AD/BC). This is enough to hint that it's been tampered with a bit.

Keen
 
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Keen said:
While some of us may have the sense to see these simple facts, hard core religious people (or hard-core anything) rarely can open their mind to even see the other sides (as some are afraid this is blasphemy or just too brain washed to see).
Keen
Exaaaaaaaactly.
 

acmilan

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joujou_84 said:
true....once upon a time the bible wouldve been almost identical to the quran and torah however over the years it has been changed by man and so it cannot be said anymore that the bible is the "word of god" that is why i cant believe in what the bible says...some parts of it are gods words...but how can u tell which parts??
The Bible hasnt changed at all in what is said...all of it is in tact, the only major difference in wordings come from translation from ancient hebrew to english. Im sure in the translation of the Torah or Quran into English some parts of the wordings did not exactly fit in with what is said in the traditional language...it is impossible to perfectly translate from one language to another. But other then that the Bible from then is the same Bible
 

sladehk

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these arguments always end with no perceivable outcome
 

acmilan

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sladehk said:
these arguments always end with no perceivable outcome
I have already stated and argued my views way back and hence dont argue anymore, i just stick around to answer questions/statements people have on Christian issues
 

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