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Does God exist? (3 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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bell531

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all of the bolded parts apply to bell153 more than rant.
Should I have said "yes, IMO" ? I clearly wasn't trying to back it up because what I said was an opinion, not an attempt to dispel your beliefs or prove that you are wrong. I do, however, love the fact that you feel the need to attack someone who believes just because you're an atheist. Does it burn you up that I don't think the same as you?

throughout the history of man, we as a people have searched for the answer.

The quest for the holy grail, the lost ark of the covenant, wrinkle-free pants: All journeys fraught with deaths, broken hearts, and wine stains. As a people, we have argued and bickered till our minds were torn near in two. Our desperate love for truth, our logic, verbosity, intelligence and cool-headedness has crushed our very souls and we have stopped searching.

I am proud to bear witness to this stunning example of human resiliency in the face of great adversity. A more perfect piece of work cannot be found. Within this masterpiece of a response, this great art, there is encapsulated centuries of ignorance and bigotry that so represents the modern theist. bell531 proves himself as one of the modern era great prophets, despite facing adversity and a public that refuses to acknowledge his prowess

perhaps someday the mainstream will be able to appreciate bell531 and his body of work, but for now we must be content to stumble upon these gems in the desert wasteland that is ncap~
Sarcasm aside, I'm probs going to disect and sig some of this. Real nice effort BTW.
 

Lukybear

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Of course it's faith. By definition, religion requires faith.

People believe in Darwinism and science because they are conclusions people have come up with using the scientific process. They are the best scientific explanation which people use to describe natural phenomena. As such, they are dynamic in that they can be improved or completely replace need be. Yet science is also not afraid to outright state that they do not know - science doesn't attempt to explain everything, it only attempts to explain what it understands.

Simply because we can't currently explain the metaphysical and philosophical concerns of God and an array of other things does not mean it won't be able to in the future. Those who say that science can never explain something like that are only making predictions based on speculative evidence. What concrete evidence do you have to say that, in the future, we won't be able to do so? One cannot simply reply to this by saying 'its logically that we would not be able to do so', since logic is simply whatever our individual mind thinks is rational. Logic can be wrong - look at the Greeks, everything being made up of 4 elements was logical in their eyes but completely wrong by the standards of today.

As such, science may or may not necessarily lead to a 'void' - one can never really know at the present time. On the other hand, religion does indeed fill this void in human knowledge, but one has to question: with what? It may offer an explanation or better understanding of God but is it the undiluted truth? I'll use Christianity as an example, since its the most common organised religion today. The Bible is at the core of Christianity but from an objective and historic point of view, completely devoid of faith, it does have holes. The Gospels were written atleast half a century after the supposed appearance of Jesus, with the latter two books around one century. Not to mention that these dates may be completely off as well, since the only actual surviving and complete copies of them were several centuries after Jesus' appearance. Ask a historian and they will tell you that there is no hard evidence to concretely prove that Jesus did the things claimed in the Bible - there is speculative evidence but even with this, there are various inconsistencies and inaccuracies. Furthermore, does proving that Jesus existed and did the things he did really prove anything other than him being able to do extraordinary things? Does it really prove the existence of God? What if it's just some guy time travelling and using some futuristic technology to look like he was sent by God? Unless you can prove that the Holy Spirit (God) came down and miraculously made Virgin Mary give birth to Jesus, or likewise with John the Baptist, you can never really know. As such, this is where faith comes in, faith that what the Bible states is true, faith that Jesus did walk the earth and did the things he was claimed to have done, faith that he will come again and so forth. One cannot claim that Christianity is the truth without faith, since from an objective point of view, there is little hard and concrete evidence to say as such. This is much the same as with all other religions.

I truly believe that agnosticism is the only real stance society can adopt. Just as religion cannot concretely prove that there is God, one cannot concretely disprove God. is there actually proof that God does not exist, other than logical reasoning which, as we have already established, is unable to prove something by itself alone? No, there isn't. A lack of supporting scientific evidence for something like God does not mean that there isn't a God, it means just what it's meant to mean - that there is no support evidence. It does not add weight to the argument that God does not exist. This is my greatest annoyance with atheism - they try to use science to develop their argument, when they really shouldn't be. As such, people put science and atheism hand in hand, when they really shouldn't be. Like religion, atheism also requires faith in that there is no God, since as of now, there really is nothing to say as such.

So yeah, I believe that neither religion nor atheism is the undisputed truth. Personally, I would group them together since they are essentially the same in that they both require faith, but I won't since atheists don't see it as such. I respect that people can see religion as being the truth but that's only because they have faith. That said, I can't say the same for atheists. All the atheists I know say that there is no God as well as claim they have no faith, which I reckon is complete bullshit. Religion and atheism attempts to explain the unexplained by offering possible explanations, which becomes truth only to an individual with faith - not the undisputed truth applicable to all individuals. Science and agnosticism is upfront and adopts the stance of 'society currently does not know, it does not attempt to hide our current ignorance of such issues under a veil of being known and understood, even if only partially.
... Why couldnt you just said "there is inconclusive evidence to support God, or dispell God, and therefore I am agnostic"? And before you go disputing the bible get your facts right, do some reasearch on your own. Stop summiting to those athiests websites.

And for matter of fact, agonostic is weak. It is saying that "I fear that there is no God, but I dont want to belive in a God."

you have faith everyday that your senses/brain wont fail and perceive something incorrectly. its simply unproductive to answer everything with "i dont really know but it appears to me to be highly unlikely" when the answers an obvious "no". it gives people the wrong impression.
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Do you really know that the anwser is a no? Sure you have faith in your sense and logic, but your inability to test reality dosent say that reallity, this world in which we all live in is real. It only says, lets not care IF this world is real, but do all we can to succed at it.

And pleasef dont tell someone that you know this world is 100% REAL, because you dont. You'll be lying through your teeth. And this forms one of the basis for philosphy, skeptiscm. Similarly, dont say to someone you knkow God is 100% fiction, because you dont.
 

Kwayera

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... Why couldnt you just said "there is inconclusive evidence to support God, or dispell God, and therefore I am agnostic"? And before you go disputing the bible get your facts right, do some reasearch on your own. Stop summiting to those athiests websites.
Uh, he's right. Have you read the bible?

And for matter of fact, agonostic is weak. It is saying that "I fear that there is no God, but I dont want to belive in a God."
Agnosticism is not weak, it's logical. We don't have any reason to believe in a god or gods, and no proof for or against; the logical stance in the position is to have no belief either way. It's not fear or a lack of want - do you fear Zeus? Do you fear Krishna?
 

moll.

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Should I have said "yes, IMO" ? I clearly wasn't trying to back it up because what I said was an opinion, not an attempt to dispel your beliefs or prove that you are wrong. I do, however, love the fact that you feel the need to attack someone who believes just because you're an atheist. Does it burn you up that I don't think the same as you?
What? When did I attack you? I just pointed out that Lukybear is an idiot and could have easily been talking about you in the bolded sections, not rant. How is that an attack? Don't be so damned sensitive and grow some balls.
That said, opinions can, and most often are, wrong when they are presented without any supportive evidence. You want to believe in God? Fine. But at least justify it on some grounds or just shut up. That rule goes for atheists and everyone else too.
 

Tangent

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we just created god to blame him for everything we cant explain or everything that goes wrong in our lives
 

moll.

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... Why couldnt you just said "there is inconclusive evidence to support God, or dispell God, and therefore I am agnostic"? And before you go disputing the bible get your facts right, do some reasearch on your own. Stop summiting to those athiests websites.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
YEAH, COS THE CHRISTIAN SITES ARE SO MUCH LESS BIASED THAN THE ATHEIST ONES.
HAHAHAHAHA YOUR BRAIN MUST HURT WHEN DECIDING WHAT TO WEAR IN THE MORNING.
And as a matter of fact, just because a site is secular or scientific, doesn't mean it's atheist. There is a vast difference between the two. Get a clue.

And for matter of fact, agonostic is weak. It is saying that "I fear that there is no God, but I dont want to belive in a God."
lol.
No less weak than being Christian. "I fear God, so I'll just worship him."

Do you really know that the anwser is a no? Sure you have faith in your sense and logic, but your inability to test reality dosent say that reallity, this world in which we all live in is real. It only says, lets not care IF this world is real, but do all we can to succed at it.
He just said that. Please re-read post.

And pleasef dont tell someone that you know this world is 100% REAL, because you dont. You'll be lying through your teeth. And this forms one of the basis for philosphy, skeptiscm. Similarly, dont say to someone you knkow God is 100% fiction, because you dont.
AARGHHH!
THE HYPOCRISY!!!
IT'S OVERWHELMING!
OH GOD, IT HURTS!
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!
DAMN YOU AND YOUR HYPOCRISY!
 

Iron

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I hope that you all find what we Catholics call peace at the centre
 

rant

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Descend, bold traveler, into the crater of Snæfellsjökull, which the shadow of Scartaris touches before the calends of July, and you will attain the centre of the earth; which I have done.

Arne Saknussemm
 

moll.

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there is a difference between having a fear of God, and been actually scared of him. although athiests and non-christians should be scared of him, Fearing God, is more a respect of him
I thought you were supposed to love him?
Or is he like the drunken and abusive father, whom you keep a healthy level of fear for, but still love him, despite the fact he regularly beats you and your siblings?
In such a case, I guess we atheists are the children who snuck out in the middle of the night and never returned, going on to forge a life of our own.
 

Iron

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I wish you'd be less vulgar in your dissent, Moll
:eek:
 

bell531

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Lukybear said:
This piece of lingustic derangement is distasteful. It is irrational and without arguement. You simply attack another theist, and make ignorant claims with no proof. Sadly I must admit, it is great prose, but lacks substance and merely is a facade for your ignorance.

The truth of it all is this. The existence of God cannot be simply tested via philosphy, science or by any other means. There is no ABSOLUTE test for God. And the only purpose, this is my hypothesis, that you've written this insensitve garbage, was to show off, or just for the pure dislike of theism.

What? When did I attack you? I just pointed out that Lukybear is an idiot and could have easily been talking about you in the bolded sections, not rant. How is that an attack? Don't be so damned sensitive and grow some balls.
Lukybear clearly wasn't talking about me, but to rant. By saying that all of the bolded parts apply to me, you are essentially attacking what I said. Whether you believe I was being sensitive does not matter, I just thought you were being overly (passive) aggressive simply because I didn't believe in your "non-belief".

moll said:
That said, opinions can, and most often are, wrong when they are presented without any supportive evidence. You want to believe in God? Fine. But at least justify it on some grounds or just shut up. That rule goes for atheists and everyone else too.
What??? This is the first stupid thing I've seen you post moll. I wasn't being invasive, aggressive or annoying when I said I believed in God, it was my opinion, which does not have to be backed up because it is a belief. If we were actually debating whether or not God is real then I would have to provide evidence to back up my argument, but we aren't. As far as I'm concerned there is no real evidence for either side of this argument, and so even though you are content with your belief because you use logic, IMO opinion is all that matters.
 

rant

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Originally Posted by the late, great Douglas Adams
People will then often say, ‘But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?’ This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it.

If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would choose not to worship him anyway.
:rolleyes:
 

Iron

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What about the universal theme of love? Is it unreasonable for the Christian to assert that God, in simplest form, is love? The instinct that humans have to selflessly care for eachother? Many would call this irrational, but we can see that it is good and a nice basis from which to go for God
 

moll.

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What??? This is the first stupid thing I've seen you post moll. I wasn't being invasive, aggressive or annoying when I said I believed in God, it was my opinion, which does not have to be backed up because it is a belief. If we were actually debating whether or not God is real then I would have to provide evidence to back up my argument, but we aren't. As far as I'm concerned there is no real evidence for either side of this argument, and so even though you are content with your belief because you use logic, IMO opinion is all that matters.
Are we even reading the same thread?
 

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