Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
Indeed 
Does God exist? (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter MoonlightSonata
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Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
Our brains have an amazing (and evolutionary) ability to see patterns where there are none.emytaylor164 said:
emytaylor164
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anyway i am sick thus feel like crap so i am going to take a nurofen and go to bed really early tonight.emytaylor164 said:
goodnight everyone
scarybunny
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Ah see this is why I subscribe to the Dogma school of religious thought.Kwayera said:I don't agree with that at all. It encourages the "well God did it, that's that" mentality, which further encourages the "well God did it, and it's blasphemy to try and explain it otherwise". Which has also happened throughout history, to our detriment
It's better to have ideas than beliefs, because you can change an idea.
Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
* and Greater Sydney
Riet
Tomcat Pilot
I don't for the life of my understand the navier stokes equations, so they aren't scientifically correct, so I should be able to run at infinite speed because wind resistance doesn't affect me.
Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
Chuck Norris counted to infinity... twice.
Chuck Norris is God.
Chuck Norris is God.
scarybunny
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I don't understand how people can refrain from asking questions. All the whys and hows are too interesting to just say "God did it and that's that".
Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
You beat me to the punchMiles Edgeworth said:
Riet
Tomcat Pilot
Oh, my point was subtle. The navier-stokes equations are equations that describe the motion of viscous fluids, but mathetmatically it's never been proven that there is always a solution in three dimensions.
I don't think it's a question that requires a physicist? It may be some hidden variable, but all our observable knowledge leads to a conclusion that it is random. TBH I for whatever emotional reason do like the idea that there are hidden determined variables that we may as of yet not know, but you can't go basing your science around that otherwise we end up in situations where we can't have any theory because there always may be something 'hidden' that we can't observe. Our best science is surely based on our best possible observations/mathematics?KFunk said:
emytaylor164
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nup wollongong is second I live 20 minutes away from wollongongExphate said:
newcastle is like my last cos of the low UAII was curious about the views of physicists because technical results (with which I have little familiarity) likely have important bearing on these questions, e.g. mathematical interpretations and experiments related to the Bell Inequality. Apparently Gerard 't Hooft has been bouncing around the theoretical possibility of hidden variables:Enteebee said:
"Contrary to common belief, it is not difficult to construct deterministic models where quantum mechanics correctly describes stochastic behaviour, in precise accordance with the Copenhagen doctrine." (e.g. large numbers of hidden variables could act in concert to generate - in the familliar stochastic sense - apparent randomness)
As you said - 'our best science is surely based on our best possible observations/mathematics'. But what if some of the universe or its processes are not observable? For all we know it would seem, at least according to 't Hooft, that hidden variables are at least a theoretical possibility. What should we do, however, if we have little reason to believe either 'there are hidden variables' or 'there are no hidden variables'? What justification can we provide for deciding either way?
For more proof on the following information please go to
http://www.islam-guide.com/
Pictures are included for further comparison
Much more on the topics of:
A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development
B) The Quran on Mountains
C) The Quran on the Origin of the Universe
D) The Quran on the Cerebrum
E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers
F) The Quran on Deeps Seas and Internal Waves
G) The Quran on Clouds
H) Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran (with RealPlayer Video)
A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development:
In the Holy Quran, God speaks about the stages of man’s embryonic development:
"We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)..." (Quran, 23:12-14)
Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.
In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two as we can see in figure 1. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others.
The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing.” This is what we can see in figures 2 and 3, the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother.
The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.” We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage4 (see figure 4). Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week.5 Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.
So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.
The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.” If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance. This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance.”6 (see figures 5 and 6).
How could Muhammad have possibly known all this 1400 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using an improved microscope in 1677 (more than 1000 years after Muhammad. They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract.7
Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore8 is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.
In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”9 (To view the RealPlayer video of this comment click here http://www.islam-guide.com/video.jpg).
Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.”
http://www.islam-guide.com/
Pictures are included for further comparison
Much more on the topics of:
A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development
B) The Quran on Mountains
C) The Quran on the Origin of the Universe
D) The Quran on the Cerebrum
E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers
F) The Quran on Deeps Seas and Internal Waves
G) The Quran on Clouds
H) Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran (with RealPlayer Video)
A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development:
In the Holy Quran, God speaks about the stages of man’s embryonic development:
"We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)..." (Quran, 23:12-14)
Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.
In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two as we can see in figure 1. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others.
The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing.” This is what we can see in figures 2 and 3, the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother.
The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.” We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage4 (see figure 4). Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week.5 Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.
So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.
The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.” If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance. This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance.”6 (see figures 5 and 6).
How could Muhammad have possibly known all this 1400 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using an improved microscope in 1677 (more than 1000 years after Muhammad. They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract.7
Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore8 is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.
In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”9 (To view the RealPlayer video of this comment click here http://www.islam-guide.com/video.jpg).
Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.”
Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
What.. are you on about?
Yes, the Islamic world were great natural philosophers, excelling in science and math especially in a time when the western world was rotting in the Dark Ages.
What of it?
Yes, the Islamic world were great natural philosophers, excelling in science and math especially in a time when the western world was rotting in the Dark Ages.
What of it?
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
Scientific Miracles of the Qur'anprivate said:
Modern science, although Haram, plays an important role in proving the divinity of the Qur'an and confirms it to be the true word of Allah. Here are some prominent examples responsible for many scientist conversions to the way of Islam.
1. Flat Earth Model
Only today are Kuffir scientists proving that the Earth is indeed flat. The idea that the Earth was round as recorded in the Christian Bible and Jewish traditions and propagated by Christian theologins in the Middle Ages such as Thomas Aquinas wrongfully believe the Earth to be round. Even prominent Muslims such as Caliph Al-Ma'mun wrongfully believed this view in contrast to the very clear words of Allah, "And the earth - We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable." Qur'an 15:19.
Contrary to the most well known Zionist theory, the Earth is actually flat. I, as a scientist, could spend hours showing you thousands of scientific documents proving this but as a Muslim it is unncessary. The Qur'an tells us it is truth. Therefore the Qur'an must be true.
Throughout history the world's most prominent Muslims agree with the words of Allah in the Qur'an. These include the blessed Tafsir writer Al-Jalalan in response to Qur'an 15:19, "In his phrase, "how it is spread', he denotes that the earth is flat. All the scholars of Islamic law agree upon this. It is not round as physicists claim" (Al-Jalan, Tafsir, p.509).
Also note, the learned Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia Ibn Baaz clearly knew that the Earth was flat and issued a fatwa to confirm this. Would our Grand Mufti deceive us? Of course not for he was quoting the true word of Allah and was right in saying, "The Earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment."
Therefore, the Qur'an is a scientific miracle!
It stated the Earth was flat 1400 years ago and only today are scientists finding this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc
I have attached an interesting video where a Muslim expert proves a scientist wrong.
2. Geocentric Universe Model
Until recently scientists believed that the centre of the Universe was the Sun and that all planets, including Earth, rotated around the Sun. Now scientists know better but were they the first to discover this phenomenon?
Of course not!
The Qur'an cleary describes a geocentric Universe model which scientists are confirming today."It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course." As Allah proclaimed in Sura 21:33 it is the Earth that remained in place and the Sun rotated around it. Such a miracle could not be attributed to chance. It truly is a miracle of Allah who knew such science before the Kuffir scientists discovered it!
http://discover-islam.obxhost.net/images/geocentric.jpg