Does God exist? (2 Viewers)

[Charli-lou]

Yes He does...


Athiests are at times worse thn some Christians at tryin to assimilate ppl to a beleif(or lack thereof, gooooosssshhhh) ...pfft why do u even care...haha...why does it frusturate u if i beleive in God???

(aS I cannot use expression in posts i apologise if this sounds abrupt or rude...not aT all my intention)

 

[lengy]

Uh... this is the only place Atheists debate this. I doubt you'll find many Atheists who care what you believe in outside of forums. Stop thinking you're being converted. You don't see Atheists out on George Street preaching salvation from some mystical being.

 

[ichigo.bankai]

damn u people i thought u guys got over it and done already!!!but any way i believe that god exists and here is why:

First of all, look at the creation and absolute harmony of this universe! U talk about thebig bang, how could anything so complex occur in random!! To believe the entire regulation of the world is not controlled by Any Being Greater is a sheer folly of your mind and only a deception of the Devil who will stop at nothing to lead mankind astray. It's the way of ingratitude and a way of not recognisng God's infinite favours on all of us.

If u were to see a magnificient city, rich and elegant, with lofty buildings and modern skyscrapers would u ever believe that this city was built by chance?! That it just "appeared" or evolved on its own without a designer and maker?!
Ofcourse u wouldnt. In the same way u have before u an entire world, with natural resources and simply harmony such that we can see in no other system! Why then do u not believe that there is a Creator of all of these?

Is it because u cant see Him that u cant believe?! U cant see gravity but u believe it exists right?! But it is because of the effects it has on the earth that we believe, in the same way we see the effects of Gods creation on earth yet we dont believe He exists. Look at ur chromosomes strands and all the possible combinations that could occur.
how can you disbelieve in Allah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #28)

 

[lengy]

I believe you're an idiot and Allah is a paedophile.

 

[lengy]

ar‧ti‧fi‧cial  /ˌɑrtəˈfɪʃəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahr-tuh-fish-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. made by human skill; produced by humans (opposed to natural): artificial flowers.
2. imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.
3. lacking naturalness or spontaneity; forced; contrived; feigned: an artificial smile.
4. full of affectation; affected; stilted: artificial manners; artificial speech.
5. made without regard to the particular needs of a situation, person, etc.; imposed arbitrarily; unnatural: artificial rules for dormitory residents.



nat‧u‧ral  /ˈnætʃərəl, ˈnætʃrəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. existing in or formed by nature (opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.
3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.
4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.
5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
6. growing spontaneously, without being planted or tended by human hand, as vegetation.
7. having undergone little or no processing and containing no chemical additives: natural food; natural ingredients. Compare organic (def. 11).
8. having a real or physical existence, as opposed to one that is spiritual, intellectual, fictitious, etc.
9. of, pertaining to, or proper to the nature or essential constitution: natural ability.
10. proper to the circumstances of the case: a natural result of his greed.
11. free from affectation or constraint: a natural manner.
12. arising easily or spontaneously: a natural courtesy to strangers.
13. consonant with the nature or character of.
14. in accordance with the nature of things: It was natural that he should hit back.
15. based upon the innate moral feeling of humankind: natural justice.
16. in conformity with the ordinary course of nature; not unusual or exceptional.
17. happening in the ordinary or usual course of things, without the intervention of accident, violence, etc.
18. related only by birth; of no legal relationship; illegitimate: a natural son.
19. related by blood rather than by adoption.
20. based on what is learned from nature rather than on revelation.
21. true to or closely imitating nature: a natural representation.
22. unenlightened or unregenerate: the natural man.
23. being such by nature; born such: a natural fool.

Learn English and the ability to differentiate between these two terms.

 

[lengy]

Those 43 virgins don't stay virgins for very long do they? Or do they get replaced? Why 43 if they get replaced? What about the girls? What do they get? Raped by 43 men? Oh that's right, it happens normally and she gets stoned for it.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Athiests are at times worse thn some Christians at tryin to assimilate ppl to a beleif(or lack thereof, gooooosssshhhh) ...pfft why do u even care...haha...why does it frusturate u if i beleive in God???

I don't try actively try to go out and convince people that atheism is right... I don't go out and knock on people's doors, I don't invade people's schools, I don't go on TV to pronounce my atheism or anything like that...

But when it's relevant (i.e. issues regarding religion/whether god exists) then I'll say I'm an atheist and explain why I think it's right.

What's your problem?

First of all, look at the creation and absolute harmony of this universe! U talk about thebig bang, how could anything so complex occur in random!!

BBT is not 'randomly the universe came about somehow', it is also not opposed to the existance of a creator nor is it the reason most people are atheists.

To believe the entire regulation of the world is not controlled by Any Being Greater is a sheer folly of your mind and only a deception of the Devil who will stop at nothing to lead mankind astray.

Err... Prove it? I mean, you believe in the devil, right? How do you know that the devil didn't write the bible/koran/torah/precepts whatever the hell it is you believe? You have no way of knowing if you accept the existance of the devil...

It's the way of ingratitude and a way of not recognisng God's infinite favours on all of us.

If I said you were ingrateful to Marmadook for creating our universe would you feel bad? No, you'd just think I'm some wanker - Put yourself in my shoes please.

If u were to see a magnificient city, rich and elegant, with lofty buildings and modern skyscrapers would u ever believe that this city was built by chance?!

No... Because I know from past experience that men make cities/buildings/etc and can recognise the signs of human intervention.

Ofcourse u wouldnt. In the same way u have before u an entire world, with natural resources and simply harmony such that we can see in no other system! Why then do u not believe that there is a Creator of all of these?

Because I have no past experience to go by when it comes to the creation of the universe...

Is it because u cant see Him that u cant believe?! U cant see gravity but u believe it exists right?!

No and it's really quite insulting that you think that... we're not idiots.

 

[HotShot]

damn u people i thought u guys got over it and done already!!!but any way i believe that god exists and here is why:

First of all, look at the creation and absolute harmony of this universe! U talk about thebig bang, how could anything so complex occur in random!! To believe the entire regulation of the world is not controlled by Any Being Greater is a sheer folly of your mind and only a deception of the Devil who will stop at nothing to lead mankind astray. It's the way of ingratitude and a way of not recognisng God's infinite favours on all of us.

If u were to see a magnificient city, rich and elegant, with lofty buildings and modern skyscrapers would u ever believe that this city was built by chance?! That it just "appeared" or evolved on its own without a designer and maker?!
Ofcourse u wouldnt. In the same way u have before u an entire world, with natural resources and simply harmony such that we can see in no other system! Why then do u not believe that there is a Creator of all of these?

Is it because u cant see Him that u cant believe?! U cant see gravity but u believe it exists right?! But it is because of the effects it has on the earth that we believe, in the same way we see the effects of Gods creation on earth yet we dont believe He exists. Look at ur chromosomes strands and all the possible combinations that could occur.
how can you disbelieve in Allah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #28)

You must be idiot.

Firstly there is no absolute harmony in this universe or in any universe if there is more than one. Randomness itself isnt simple - i dont know why you make that assumption.

As for gravity - we believe it exists. we can believe in many things, but we trust gravity. if we throw a ball up it will fall down. Can you trust god? or any creator?.

You pray and nothing happens. I throw a ball and it falls down. I can trust gravity but not god. Belief is nothing - you can all belief u want whether it be true or not. Trust is what matters.

These 'modern skyscrapers' have been built over time through much hardwork. Its like how a mole - digs a tunnel. nothing spectacular about it. nothing to suggest there is a creator.

ur a stupid person.

 

[ihavenothing]

blah blah blah blah

No, I believe that you are too afraid to question your belief. Or you do this just to be "in a group", thats why apostasy in Islam is punished by death because they know how inferior their belief is.

 

[KFunk]

First of all, look at the creation and absolute harmony of this universe! U talk about thebig bang, how could anything so complex occur in random!! To believe the entire regulation of the world is not controlled by Any Being Greater is a sheer folly of your mind and only a deception of the Devil who will stop at nothing to lead mankind astray. It's the way of ingratitude and a way of not recognisng God's infinite favours on all of us.

An inability to understand how the universe could come to be without a god does not show that there must be a god. It may be the case that the exact nature of the universe is beyond our intellectual capacity (as I am sure is the case with god, if it is the case that one[or 3?] exists).

 

[crustafa]

So if no God, then what?

It's all relative right. What's good for you is good for you. What's good for me is good for me. Without God there is no absolutes. Without absolutes one's sense of ethics and morals are irrelevant, as they differ with emotions and circumstance.

If there's no God, then there is no point of being here. So there's no right, no wrong. Evolution = natural selection - those that are able to adapt to their surroundings are more likely to survive on pass on those characteristics to their offspring. If this is true, then what you're in essence saying is it's okay for me to go lock up 20 fourteen-year old girls and rape them in my backyard.

No God = No purpose. No morals. Why? Because what you believe as 'right' and wrong is ultimately different to the person next to you. Truth is not relative. Truth is absolute. If you put 50 people in a room and say 'which way is north?' they're all going to point different directions but not all going to be right. The same is with truth. Someone has to be right. Someone has to be wrong.

And you're wrong.

"The Case for Christ" - by Lee Strobel. A journalist who is more cynical, more skeptical and has more qualifications than you do. He set out to disprove the whole Christianity thing, he couldn't. He became a Christian. Why don't you try reading up on stuff like this? Try out "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis while you're at it. Christians aren't as dumb as you think we are. Don't go thinking we haven't thought it out, and that we're just following blindly.

 

[dagwoman]

^ I don't need a God, and therefore threats of punishment with hell and praise with going to heaven, to do what I believe is right. I believe religion is just an outdated way of understanding the way the world works and morals. Morals aren't that black and white, like you've said, but that doesn't mean there is an abolute right or wrong. Your analogy doesn't work, because there IS an established "north", but there is no established doctrine of morals everyone agrees with. What you seem to be saying is that in every situation, there is a definite right or wrong. But are you going to believe everything the bible says, just because it represents everything that you think is "right"?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

^ I don't need a God, and therefore threats of punishment with hell and praise with going to heaven, to do what I believe is right. I believe religion is just an outdated way of understanding the way the world works and morals. Morals aren't that black and white, like you've said, but that doesn't mean there is an abolute right or wrong. Your analogy doesn't work, because there IS an established "north", but there is no established doctrine of morals everyone agrees with. What you seem to be saying is that in every situation, there is a definite right or wrong. But are you going to believe everything the bible says, just because it represents everything that you think is "right"?

But if in some situation S, person A believes action x is what is the right thing to do and person B believes that action y is the right thing to do how can you, ie. someone with no established reference for what is right or wrong say to either person that one's decision is better than the other?

Then clearly every person has his or her own 'truth' that they can follow; eg. the thief who believes the best thing to do when caught by his target is to shoot him.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If there's no God, then there is no point of being here.

Ultimate purpose, no... but we create our own 'purpose' in our lives even if it is ultimately meaningless.... Much as we build a sandcastle at the beach, even though it's a pointless task and will be washed away by the sand, it was still fun - At the time.

So there's no right, no wrong.

There is no ultimate right and wrong, correct, however there is still often common-ground which we can use to form the basis of showing why our idea of morality is better than someone elses (at least relatively within our own species). We have a common evolution, common cultures, all have mothers, all know we will die etc.

If this is true, then what you're in essence saying is it's okay for me to go lock up 20 fourteen-year old girls and rape them in my backyard.

No - What it means is that it is ultimately void of having and moral judgement attached to it... i.e. It is not 'okay', it just is.

No God = No purpose.

What purpose does God give? Imho theists seem to find the same things in their lives to give them 'purpose' as atheists do.

No morals.

But when we start believing in the absolute morals that we've decided come from God we come into problems too... i.e. They can conflict, or just seem plain wrong. There's also the question of 'How do we know those morals came from God?', I would claim that they didn't so the choice between having absolute morality and relative is fake as absolute morality does not exist.

"The Case for Christ" - by Lee Strobel. A journalist who is more cynical, more skeptical and has more qualifications than you do.

le sigh.

He set out to disprove the whole Christianity thing, he couldn't. He became a Christian. Why don't you try reading up on stuff like this?

'Disprove the whole christianity thing'? How did he propose to do this? Anyway I think I have read either this entire thing or parts of it (as it was brought up in this thread before) and my point (in general) was that he seems to have forgotten the common counter-arguments of atheists as he fails to address them... It seems odd for someone claiming to be highly skeptical.

 

[Chiisora]

I honestly don't think me (or anyone else for that matter) can say that He does exist. But I also think that noone can truely say that He DOESN'T exist as well.

OK... I'm just contradicting myself. What I'm trying to say is, you can never be sure... There's always flaws on either sides of the argument... I'm so lost when it comes to these types of things...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I honestly don't think me (or anyone else for that matter) can say that He does exist. But I also think that noone can truely say that He DOESN'T exist as well.

We can never know the absolute truth, however I think at the very least we can say we cannot prove God doesn't exist as much as we cannot prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist.

 

[crustafa]

There is no ultimate right and wrong, correct, however there is still often common-ground which we can use to form the basis of showing why our idea of morality is better than someone elses (at least relatively within our own species). We have a common evolution, common cultures, all have mothers, all know we will die etc.

Yea...about that. 'common ground' is becoming more and more uncommon isn't it? What was 'common ground' 100 years ago is not 'common ground' today. i.e. (and in no way am i judging or condemning anyone this is applicable to), 100 years ago there were four basic 'common' principles that Western society agreed with. (trust me, this is going somewhere).
1. They had to be over 16
2. They could not already be married
3. They could not be immediately related to their spouse
4. They had to be of opposite sex.

Enter 2006- the introduction of gay marriages - something that was once 'commonly' frowned upon is now seen as acceptable; applauded. So consequently, if society says in a few decades time that it's "common" for me to take my 12 year old, already married sister as my third wife then that's okay? Because it's 'common' right?

right... good theory though.

What purpose does God give? Imho theists seem to find the same things in their lives to give them 'purpose' as atheists do.

Again...try reading up on something before you criticise it...For example, Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Life...As a christian i have a christian worldview, about what i believe, why i believe it and the implications of what i believe. It's quite different to your worldview, and as a result of that, my 'purpose' in life will be different to yours. trust me. it's different.

But when we start believing in the absolute morals that we've decided come from God we come into problems too... i.e. They can conflict, or just seem plain wrong. There's also the question of 'How do we know those morals came from God?', I would claim that they didn't so the choice between having absolute morality and relative is fake as absolute morality does not exist.

Again, who decides what's "common" morals? The ever-changing values of society? Yea i'd trust them for sure...It's 'common' that the average teenager will be exposed to approximately 14,000 sexual references a year by the media.

Are you saying there's no absolutes? That in itself is an absolute statement.

'Disprove the whole christianity thing'? How did he propose to do this? Anyway I think I have read either this entire thing or parts of it (as it was brought up in this thread before) and my point (in general) was that he seems to have forgotten the common counter-arguments of atheists as he fails to address them... It seems odd for someone claiming to be highly skeptical.

ok you just asked how he did it, and then claimed to have read the book. Come on now. by the way he addresses the common counter-arguments in "a case for faith" - maybe you should try reading that one too, unless you've read it already.

 

[dagwoman]

You're comparing aldulterous, incestuous polygamy with gay marriage?

And as for common morals, I think Not-That-Bright is referring to the common ground as human beings being kind to one another. Basic beliefs such as truth, love etc. I may be wrong though.

 

[crustafa]

im not saying they're alike.

not at all.

what im saying is though that society's view on gary marriages changed greately in one hundred years. they were completely taboo. nonexistent.

just like incestuous polygamy.

it's not about the marriages. it's about the ever-changing values of society.

Sorry if that was a bad example. let's try another.

Slavery.

100 years ago it was considered okay. "common".

not it's not.

Society changes. get it now?

 

[dagwoman]

I realise that, but what you're implying is that incestuous polygamy could become as widely accepted as gay marriage has, that it's just a matter of time, as if the only thing that determines our values is the society we live in. I believe people are all born with (?) and brought up with common values such as love, honesty etc.