Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[SkyScout]

I can go on and on saying but perhaps the definition of God and miracles and hope and belief differs from yours to mine...

But if you were to place everything on different levels of pedestals energy and the devil would most certainly stand at the lowest and God at the highest. Perhaps to fully understand God is to discover within and not trying to define His/Her understanding using words... That's humanity's greatest flaw... to limit anything and everything to a few words and letters... that sucks the life out of it all...

And even if I did proof to you that God existed amongst us... you wouldn't believe me ... so why bother...

I shall leave now... This thread will only get messier with people biting each other heads off and not coming to a collective conclusion and undersatnding....

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I can go on and on saying but perhaps the definition of God and miracles and hope and belief differs from yours to mine...

Give me your definition then. I don't believe in such things so I don't really know what sort of a definition I would give.

But if you were to place everything on different levels of pedestals energy and the devil would most certainly stand at the lowest and God at the highest.

Where's your evidence for that? Maybe 'God' is the devil and vice-versa. You have no evidence, you're just guessing... thus why it's silly when your belief is about on par with me saying 'a magic goat did it'.

Perhaps to fully understand God is to discover within and not trying to define His/Her understanding using words...

How would you know when you 'discovered god 'within' ' that you were not merely deluded? Or that the devil wasn't making you think you discovered God (but you were really now doing his bidding) etc etc... I can give 1000's of explanations equally valid.

That's humanity's greatest flaw... to limit anything and everything to a few words and letters... that sucks the life out of it all...

Yea I agree. The problem with occam's razor is that often the most realistic answer is the most boring one.

And even if I did proof to you that God existed amongst us... .

That would be quite an incredible feat, I would say an impossible one - but go on.

you wouldn't believe me ... so why bother..

I want to believe in God (happy version), I really, really, really, really, really do. I am not a 'close minded' person, I am fairly open-minded but that doesn't mean I have to accept other ideas as accurate, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I shall leave now... This thread will only get messier with people biting each other heads off and not coming to a collective conclusion and undersatnding....

K bye.

There is only one thing for certain; that it is not hard or disadvantageous to believe.

It's extremely hard when you're thinking critically about the matter and all you're thrown by people such as yourself is to have faith (i.e. believe it without reason, worst concept humanity has ever decided to praise), you telling me 'just believe in God' is like me telling you to 'just believe in fairies'.

 

[ur_inner_child]

In honesty, to prove God exists through abstract things like "the feeling of a presence" or "experiencing a miracle" seems so ridiculous to me.

I use to think this way though. My dad was in a serious condition, and I prayed. And he was okay. I believed it was a miracle. But you know, it was medical procedures that literally helped him, not necessarily some random act of God.

Its the same with the situation I encountered not long ago. A friend of mine asked me how I could not believe in God, considering the world, the environment and its beauty proves that God exists. This doesn't logically flow. Think about it. With no bias, no nothing, if you were trying to convince someone that God exists because of the existence of their surroundings and its "beauty", there is a good chance they will not be convinced.

Goodness, for the last time, a lot of Christians can admit to the fact that there is no evidence to prove that God exists, yet others continue to insist that there is with abstract things like "miracles", a "good feeling" and "look at the beauty of the world!"

I could use the exact same evidence and say that there are five Gods, or none at all, rather than one.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

God, for the last time, a lot of Christians can admit to the fact that there is no evidence to prove that God exists, yet others continue to insist that there is with abstract things like "miracles", a "good feeling" and "look at the beauty of the world!"

I'll try to find the article, but I believe it's been proven that all people will use logic to justify their beliefs (sometimes flawed of course) - despite what some people say. Perhaps an obvious point, but I think it needs to be pointed out.

A friend of mine asked me how I could not believe in God, considering the world, the environment and its beauty proves that God exists

It is extremely beautiful from my perspective (especially since I put god out of the equation) but if an all-powerful being created this I am not impressed. It is like a professional juggler/clown juggling two balls... only 1^infinity times worse.

 

[c_james]

Why question God's existence when you are unable to comprehend His/Her teachings if you ever did discover God.

There is no point discussing such matter until and unless you have that desire within to discover God.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay, back to serious discussion.

 

[HotShot]

In honesty, to prove God exists through abstract things like "the feeling of a presence" or "experiencing a miracle" seems so ridiculous to me.

I use to think this way though. My dad was in a serious condition, and I prayed. And he was okay. I believed it was a miracle. But you know, it was medical procedures that literally helped him, not necessarily some random act of God.

Its the same with the situation I encountered not long ago. A friend of mine asked me how I could not believe in God, considering the world, the environment and its beauty proves that God exists. This doesn't logically flow. Think about it. With no bias, no nothing, if you were trying to convince someone that God exists because of the existence of their surroundings and its "beauty", there is a good chance they will not be convinced.

Goodness, for the last time, a lot of Christians can admit to the fact that there is no evidence to prove that God exists, yet others continue to insist that there is with abstract things like "miracles", a "good feeling" and "look at the beauty of the world!"

I could use the exact same evidence and say that there are five Gods, or none at all, rather than one.

perhaps it was the power of your mind.. there has been extensive reasearch on the untapped potential of our brain. with dudes turning on switches without any 'physical' manoeuver just using the power of the brain..

'miracles' could be possible by the power of our brains. there was somethin on beyond the future (that program on tele) about controlling pain through distraction... then u have various placebo effects..

 

[c_james]

perhaps it was the power of your mind.. there has been extensive reasearch on the untapped potential of our brain. with dudes turning on switches without any 'physical' manoeuver just using the power of the brain..

'miracles' could be possible by the power of our brains. there was somethin on beyond the future (that program on tele) about controlling pain through distraction... then u have various placebo effects..

And we're well into the realm of the paranormal now...

 

[gerhard]

perhaps it was the power of your mind.. there has been extensive reasearch on the untapped potential of our brain. with dudes turning on switches without any 'physical' manoeuver just using the power of the brain..

'miracles' could be possible by the power of our brains. there was somethin on beyond the future (that program on tele) about controlling pain through distraction... then u have various placebo effects..

no one can turn on switches just using their brain you fucking idiot. jesus christ.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

perhaps it was the power of your mind.. there has been extensive reasearch on the untapped potential of our brain. with dudes turning on switches without any 'physical' manoeuver just using the power of the brain..

All that 'untapped potential' stuff is BS. We use ALL of our brain, well... at least most of us do.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Um

Lol Hotshot I don't see how whether using all of our brain or not has anything to do with what I said?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So sam can continue to answer when he gets back,

the Big Bang theory which presumes that all the laws which govern the universe, along with matter existed prior to the 'Big Bang'

No it doesn't.

 

[littlewing69]

perhaps it was the power of your mind.. there has been extensive reasearch on the untapped potential of our brain. with dudes turning on switches without any 'physical' manoeuver just using the power of the brain..

Source.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Perhaps you can't comprehend God's words and teachings with your current state of mind...

Also, I don't think anyone is disputing whether the teachings and words exist. I also do find value in a lot of points and main ideas within the Bible, as with many religious and spiritual texts, as well as the general idea of spirituality. Don't say I don't understand it without believing in a God. I don't agree with a lot of my asian culture but you can't say I don't understand it.

Anyway, I don't see how what you said in that post contributed to whether God exists or not. I noted you didn't reply to my other post, concerning the value or questioning your beliefs, regardless of whether you intend to stay with them or not.

Again, abstract ideas such as "insight", "miracles", "a good feeling" does not show that God exists.

 

[c_james]

So sam can continue to answer when he gets back,



No it doesn't.

he got torn to shreds on that physics forum. I don't know why we even bother with him. He thinks he's found a cure for cancer, for christ's sake (pun intended).

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Don't say I don't understand it without believing in a God.

That would be silly anyway:

- This text is proof of God.
- You have to believe in God to properly understand the text.

So in order to find out whether God exists, I have to read this text.. but in order to read it properly I already need to accept that God exists? :/

he got torn to shreds on that physics forum. I don't know why we even bother with him. He thinks he's found a cure for cancer, for christ's sake (pun intended).

Well, I guess because people like him aren't really that rare.

 

[dillian]

nope. all bullsht.

 

[BradCube]

In honesty, to prove God exists through abstract things like "the feeling of a presence" or "experiencing a miracle" seems so ridiculous to me.

I use to think this way though. My dad was in a serious condition, and I prayed. And he was okay. I believed it was a miracle. But you know, it was medical procedures that literally helped him, not necessarily some random act of God.

Its the same with the situation I encountered not long ago. A friend of mine asked me how I could not believe in God, considering the world, the environment and its beauty proves that God exists. This doesn't logically flow. Think about it. With no bias, no nothing, if you were trying to convince someone that God exists because of the existence of their surroundings and its "beauty", there is a good chance they will not be convinced.

Goodness, for the last time, a lot of Christians can admit to the fact that there is no evidence to prove that God exists, yet others continue to insist that there is with abstract things like "miracles", a "good feeling" and "look at the beauty of the world!"

I could use the exact same evidence and say that there are five Gods, or none at all, rather than one.

Firstly I would just like to apologize for my lack of replies at the moment (particularly the fact that have not got to yours NTB), I've been fairly busy with trial examinations, so I will try and get to the replies eventually. Having said that your post caught my eye stef.

I think having a feeling of "the presence of God" cannot be used as proof of a God, at least on an objective level, and when talking to people who have not had a similar experience.

The miracle side if things I am not quite so sure about though. Indeed your example of prayer for your father can be put down to a coincidental/medical basis. However I think there are other situations where miracles do give some credible indiction of a real supernatural power. Whether this can specifically or logically be attributed to a singular omnipotent God is another matter. Miracles where there is no medical reasoning or it happens as another is praying for healing (in reference to physical here) would seem to give fairly strong indication to me personally. What is your opinion in regard to these type of miracles?

Anyone else, without giving a "I don't believe that happens" response, what would you make of such an occurance if it happened before you? What would you attribute it to?

Also the beauty of the world comment, I'm not sure what your in reference to. Do you mean the people and suffering etc that goes in within our world or are you reffering strictly to the environment? I would say that the complexity of our world is more evident then beauty since beauty is a subjective (or at least more so than complexity).

Also NTB, could you explain how you reach the conclusion that if our world was designed by a God he made a mistake (or something along those lines). I'm not quite sure I am following you. What factors are you attributing to this reasoning?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Miracles where there is no medical reasoning or it happens as another is praying for healing (in reference to physical here) would seem to give fairly strong indication to me personally. What is your opinion in regard to these type of miracles?

There's never any solid proof for them. With the 10000000's of miracles which I can tell you, I know are lies, I'm not willing to easily believe that you know of 1 which is real (and is most likely very similar to the ones which are lies )

Anyone else, without giving a "I don't believe that happens" response, what would you make of such an occurance if it happened before you? What would you attribute it to?

I would attribute it to my insanity before I attributed it to a supernatural, magical being. You really need to give some exact examples tho.

Also NTB, could you explain how you reach the conclusion that if our world was designed by a God he made a mistake (or something along those lines).

It's just one of 10000 possible retorts to the 'god exists but is beyond our logic' line of reasoning. Ok, so lets say you're right - how do we know it didn't create the universe, wanting to make something pretty and that human life was merely a by-product of him doing that? Also, how do we know he isn't evil and playing a long tortuous game with humans? etc etc etc...

Basically, the proposition opens up much more questions than answers - even if you accept it.

 

[BradCube]

There's never any solid proof for them. With the 10000000's of miracles which I can tell you, I know are lies, I'm not willing to easily believe that you know of 1 which is real (and is most likely very similar to the ones which are lies )

Lol, fair enough. I never was suggesting that I had proof of miracles, although I would definatley say they do occur.

I would attribute it to my insanity before I attributed it to a supernatural, magical being. You really need to give some exact examples tho.

That's really interesting. You would even attribute it to your sanity if others around you proffessed to witnessing the same thing?

It's just one of 10000 possible retorts to the 'god exists but is beyond our logic' line of reasoning. Ok, so lets say you're right - how do we know it didn't create the universe, wanting to make something pretty and that human life was merely a by-product of him doing that? Also, how do we know he isn't evil and playing a long tortuous game with humans? etc etc etc...

Basically, the proposition opens up much more questions than answers - even if you accept it.

I would think that it is impossible to prove answers to these questions beyond a doubt if at all. However, the fact that something opens up more questions does not seem a plausible reason to think that if creation did happen, it was a mistake.

I'm not sure if you understood what I meant oringinally so I'll dig up the quote. I may have misunderstood you.

Edit*: Here it is:

It is extremely beautiful from my perspective (especially since I put god out of the equation) but if an all-powerful being created this I am not impressed. It is like a professional juggler/clown juggling two balls... only 1^infinity times worse.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Lol, fair enough. I never was suggesting that I had proof of miracles, although I would definatley say they do occur.

Yea, seems a little silly doesn't it? Would you think I'm silly if I said I believe the tooth fairy exists, offering up no proof? It's exactly the same.

That's really interesting. You would even attribute it to your sanity if others around you proffessed to witnessing the same thing?

Then I'd attribute it to aliens comming from outter space and with their highly advanced technology, making it appear like it is a miracle. These things are more believable imho than that some superbeing decided to do some random thing in my life.

However, the fact that something opens up more questions does not seem a plausible reason to think that if creation did happen, it was a mistake.

I think it's just as plausible as claiming that because creation happened that supports your theory.

It is extremely beautiful from my perspective (especially since I put god out of the equation) but if an all-powerful being created this I am not impressed. It is like a professional juggler/clown juggling two balls... only 1^infinity times worse.

Basically... if david copperfield for his finale magic trick, walks up behind a kid and 'stole' their nose, would you consider that to be oh so awesome? Hell no - he's david copperfield! It's exactly the same with an omnipotent being. This creation we see around us really isn't all that impressive if it was done by an omnipotent being, he's omnipotent.