Sasha; leave this conversation to people with IQ's over 50... and go back to watching South Park and Drawing Anti-Islamic pictures... you imbecile....
Cuz if you watch South Park you're stupid?
I agree, that some of you have expressed some pretty straight forward comments but none of the questions have been effectively answered...
Hmm... if you go to
http://community.boredofstudies.org/214/news-current-affairs-politics/106355/does-god-exist/99.html you will see this very long post that seemed to quote every single point you made and replied to them, with no counter-argument as yet... Hi?
I'm not forcing you to believe god... I'm not forcing you to become christian or muslim.
Or even to accept my god...
No one said you were, don't bother mentioning it.
I'm just showing you the ignorance which some of you are showing... and for no good reason... you can still believe god and research the meta-physical and astronomy.
What ignorance are you talking about? I mean, dude, this is so silly... you are one of the most ignorant people I have encountered on this forum, and here you are complaining about other people being ignorant? With no examples? Just some nonsense comment about how you can believe in 'the metaphysical and astronomy and god' - I mean... no one's even challenged that, I have no idea why you're bringing this up other than to say a bunch of fluffy rhetoric to make yourself feel like you've provided an effective retort.
But, by following religion you lose nothing...
You become more moral... more acceptable... more peaceful... and have ensured security....
No I do not agree, you are a perfect example. By being indoctrinated into your religion by your parents, you have turned into this robot that is only willing to challenge concepts within safe boundaries, a person so ignorant of the arguments of others that you just dismiss them as stupid or ignore them. I believe this is a product of religion, and just one of many problems I have with it.
And I have come into contact with some feasable explanations...
Which you don't remember, can't be bothered typing etc etc etc...
So, there is no reason to be anti-religion... because even most of you agree to the morals of religion... like anti-hate, anti-murder, anti-rape, anti-theft... etc etc...
I think you're reducing your religion of what it really is, it's like a strawman argument to prop up your own position. I mean, religions aren't just about... anti-hate, anti-murder, anti-rape etc... and also these questions are not ones which have simple answers. The koran tells you to cut the hands off burgulars, is that wrong? I contend it is, but you might say otherwise, we both have an 'anti-burgular' stance, but we disagree on punishments.
Believing god is a security things.... call it a security blanket... but there is more to gain then lose... unless ofcourse you absolutely can't believe...
Well it depends, personally to me it doesn't matter.. I can't lie to myself even if it would make me feel better, it's an impossible thing to do.
(Even still... according to Islam all good people will go to heaven... so as long as you're a good person... you will go to heaven....)
And what is a good person?
"Oh a good person is one who follows the koran"
So essentially, saying as long as you're a good person you will go to heaven, is the same statement as "as long as you're a good muslim you will go to heaven".
I'm not saying if you don't believe in "God", you'll be immoral or go to hell... but if you just follow some of the behaviours avidly.. you're just as well off!
Err what?
Firstly, you have said that without religion people will be 'immoral' etc.
Secondly, what do you mean by 'follow some of the behaviours', what behaviours?
Eg; Is it not beneficial to dress conservatively? As is asked in the Qur'an?
It is! As your partner will not be interested in you just because of your physical appearance!
Is it not beneficial to be fidel with your partner?
It is! you and your partner will form trust and loyalty; cheating could lead to a break-up and an unsuccesful life as a result of this.
Is it not beneficial to refrain from things whcih harm your body? eg; drugs & alcohol
It is! (common sense)
Is it not beneficial to not steal/rape/attack/murder??
There are positives and negatives to everything.
Be a good person; and I truly don't mind if you believe in god. Because according to islam' in the final hours of the final day. All those who are "pure of heart" will find islam and go to heaven!
Which essentially means... follow the koran, as I explained above. Furthermore, I contend that you do care that we don't believe in God because you are arguing against us, we do have a somewhat credible argument and that forces your defenses.
F.R.O.G. :wave:
-----------------------------------
Part 2 of the Epic Saga
Well, it's subjective... can morals truely be outdated?
I'm going to put forward the idea that morals only exist if there are people to follow them, so if no one is following a moral, it is outdated. What's your point tho? Are you saying that all morals are universily in vogue or something? I don't really get it.
I believe in the moral beliefs associated with the Qur'an.
A perfectly moral society would be utopian... people would be so civilised.... (the thoughts alone are tantalising....)
In order for a state of morality to exist, you need immorality. I contend that without 'immoral' aspects of a society you can never have a 'moral' society.
And I challenge the claims that morals existed pre-religion.
Just read up on "human psychological behaviour"; morals could not be made by man... i just don't see why you cant accept that... because of our nature... it would be impossible to do so...
HOW are you challenging it? You're just saying essentially 'no' in a long sentence, and that it's 'against our nature'. I've provided a fossil example, analogies with other types of animals, and what is really a fairly logical argument as to how morals have come into existance - and THIS is your reply?
I know you all argue "well if I abandon religion, Its not like im going to become destructive and have no moral beliefs"
I know that you idiots... and If you bothered to read I said "future generations";
But these moral beliefs, are held by all (well most) people, not because of religion, but because of something else... It's like the desire to have sex or the need to eat - It's wired into our genes... Furthermore, what is 'moral' is decided
by the generation at the time. If future generations are what we would consider 'immoral' does not matter, because we are not necessarily right or wrong on the issue, there is no absolutes just what is 'in vogue'. I do however believe there is a basic framework that people will never break away from, at least not in the near future, as it's hardwired into our very existance.
I'm just following trends.. but by 2015' 29% of all people will be atheist... (which is exceedingly high)....
Erm, well I don't know what growth rate you're going off... but I think it's quite unlikely that by 2015 29% of people will declare themselves atheist worldwide. Most surveys talk about 'non-religious', which can mean people that just don't care, and agnostics who are really not sure about their position and may eventually believe in God (as opposed to the agnostics on this forum that are fairly set) it's different to an atheist who rejects the idea of god, except for in the world of the fantastic.
People will question things like morals... and as the general opinion of society shift... so will laws... and when the laws shift... so will the actions of people....
What's wrong with questioning morals?
People; will become more ruthless (because of the disbelief of religious morals which they will claim to be "out of date" or "stupid".)
How does it follow that as you question morals, you become more ruthless? Non-sequitur.
People, will contend that "you only live once, so make the best of it!" which will lead to a surge of apathy... people will turn to virtual reality...
and even... genetic-cosmetic-surgery... like getting a tail.....
Erm... ok dude, alot of hippies, socialists etc are atheists. These people are against 'virtual realities' and 'cosmetic surgery' just as much, if not more than you. It also, again doesn't follow that just because you question morals you're going to decide to 'make the best of it' (however I think alot of people have done that already).... That doesn't really follow to lead to a surge of apathy....
Sam, you have so many Non-sequiturs in these paragraphs that I'm not going to continue - Fix them or they're just wrong.
*after religion is disregarded, man will revert back slowly.. to his immoral ways.
- this will lead to a "filthy" society...
- a society with 'less' sense of 'caring'
- an unmotivated society.. who believe 'you only live once' and therefore live with destructive attidudes...
- a society where the idea of a family with a father and mother living together married.. will be about half as common as it is now... (trends in nuclear and defacto-relationships/single parents & Divorce rates)
NON-SEQUITUR... You have to EXPLAIN how it is that these things follow from one another, otherwise it's just bullshit.
I'm not saying this will destroy the universe... someone at that time will perceive it all as normal... I just want to prevent it from happening... as it will take away from the idealistic human... and 'God' will not accept us... or bless us with divine understanding....
Yea but you really have no reason for believing that this will happen other than a hunch, it's like me saying 'I predict in 5 years time rape will be legal due to islams growing influence', it's a sort of statement that stings with blunt hatred and doesn't really explain anything. You might as well just say 'I hate you'.
Im sure most of you agree to some extent of a celestial being who:
- Created the beginning of the universe
(Yes, this is what happened.)
&
- Brought the first parts of life to earth....
(Something "brang" life to earth... any other life form would have died in space without the proper "engineered" equipment... eg(spaceships); as nothing can survive the immense radiation in space... )
Nope, no evidence of it.
Even though; I have theories of both which can occur without the celestial interference... I wont explain them at this moment in time... as religion is what I believe to be true.
Yea, you always have these awesome theories you never explain. If they're as good as your theory about how growing atheism will lead to the end of teh world then I can't wait.
This post does not warrant countless flames from imbeciles who only "question"
Yes! those imbeciles who dare to question the brilliant overlord S.A.M.
I'll only answer to posts which are "structured" and attempt to properly challenge/disprove my statement... (this is usually done by davin & sometimes N.T.B)
I know... Me and Davin do such a shit job at challenging your divine logic. One day maybe I will pwn newbz like you, but not today.
Also; why should I consider your "idiotic" statements when you don't consider my intelligen statements?
Err whatever... You should at least respond with intelligent criticisms to our statements, as we attempt to do for you, even if you ultimately think our statements are 'idiotic' you could at least pay us the same respect which we do you.
If you can't even actually stop and consider what I am saying... then I perceive you as an imbecile.... in that case why are you even reading my response? you already have a formed opinion... you're not willing to change it?? so whats the point? are you trying to prove you're right?
Yes, I am attempting to prove you are wrong, and show that I am right. It's a battle of wits, which really does help to develop a better argument style, at least for some people.
The rest of you (excluding generator) have formed opinions... and aren't even willing to change... it seems as though arguing with you is pointless... (that's why I love children... they're willing to accept anything.. as long as it is logical...)
Lol children have yet to even be able to consider things, it really worries me that you would fill them with such nonsense as what you tell us here... Personally, if I was around children often, or had my own kid, I would teach them to question the world around them and let them come to the conclusion of what they want to believe. Give them the tools to decide, not just tell them about my 'uber' logic ... lol
