Does God exist? (11 Viewers)

[Zayd]

Ok then are you going to read the holy text of every single other religion?

The thing is Islam promotos fairness and it teaches me that to become a proper muslim i need to study other religions.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea ok that's fair enough - but how do you choose where to start?

 

[Zayd]

fair enough... its your own personal answer.

I'll admit that I too would be pretty disappointed, but I know I'll die, satisfied of the life I had...

As a theoretical question, not to offend your beliefs, what if he was not the God you worshipped, but the Catholic God? But you don't entirely follow Catholic values, of course.

What would you say to Him if He asked you why you should be let in to heaven?

All religions basically exhort mankind to be righteous and eschew evil. But Islam goes beyond that. It guides us towards practical ways of achieving righteousness and eliminating evil from our individual and collective lives. Islam takes into account human nature and the complexities of human society. Islam is guidance from the Creator Himself. Therefore, Islam is also called the Deen-ul-Fitrah (the natural religion of Man).
Islam is the best way of life because its teachings are not doctrinaire rhetoric but practical solutions for the problems of mankind. Islam achieves results both at the individual and collective levels. Islam is the best way of life because it is a practical, universal religion not confined to any ethnic group or nationality.

Islam is the only religion, based on logic, that does not fail in any aspect, the respect to God. Basically i would say i worshipped you as a muslim, how you deserved to be worshipped.

 

[ur_inner_child]

All religions basically exhort mankind to be righteous and eschew evil. But Islam goes beyond that. It guides us towards practical ways of achieving righteousness and eliminating evil from our individual and collective lives. Islam takes into account human nature and the complexities of human society. Islam is guidance from the Creator Himself. Therefore, Islam is also called the Deen-ul-Fitrah (the natural religion of Man).
Islam is the best way of life because its teachings are not doctrinaire rhetoric but practical solutions for the problems of mankind. Islam achieves results both at the individual and collective levels. Islam is the best way of life because it is a practical, universal religion not confined to any ethnic group or nationality.

Islam is the only religion, based on logic, that does not fail in any aspect, the respect to God. Basically i would say i worshipped you as a muslim, how you deserved to be worshipped.

I did, admittedly, really like the last sentence you wrote as the answer to my question. Not so much anything prior to that though

Nevertheless, I suggest you refrain from telling people's lives are meaningless without God. It's more hurtful that you may think. To others, its non-sensical. I'm quite against religious people that impose their beliefs and judgements over others, in which case, you have done to me repeatedly.

Religion should be a really personal thing when you look inside you and your relationship with God. Perhaps shared with people who share your beliefs, yet when it comes to those who don't, you should keep an open mind and try to refrain from judgement and disrespect, without seeing them in the context of your religion...

eg: Stef's life is meaningless

Because I simply don't think about life the way you do.

 

[Zayd]

I did, admittedly, really like the last sentence you wrote as the answer to my question. Not so much anything prior to that though

Nevertheless, I suggest you refrain from telling people's lives are meaningless without God. It's more hurtful that you may think. To others, its non-sensical. I'm quite against religious people that impose their beliefs and judgements over others, in which case, you have done to me repeatedly.

Religion should be a really personal thing when you look inside you and your relationship with God. Perhaps shared with people who share your beliefs, yet when it comes to those who don't, you should keep an open mind and try to refrain from judgement and disrespect, without seeing them in the context of your religion...

eg: Stef's life is meaningless

Even though i believe i havent said anything wrong or offensive, i do apologize. However may i remind you that the topic being discussed is" does God exist" personally i believe i have the right to express my views. When you say i should use an open mind, if you read the anti-religion or anti-god existance comments you would be quite discussed with some of the comments. The thing that i fail to understand is that why dont people (who don't believe in God), think about death, and then go that extra bit further and ask themselves what was the reason behind there existance. i thought it would be a common question people would ask themselves.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The thing that i fail to understand is that why do people who don't believe in God, think about death, and then go that extra bit further and ask themselves what was the reason behind there existance. i thought it would be a common question people would ask themselves.

We create our own meaning in our life.

Analogy: Building a snowman is fun, eventually the snow will melt etc... but it was fun doing it, we created that fun in our heads - there was no ultimate purpose to it.

 

[Jameswilmot2000]

The thing that i fail to understand is that why dont people (who don't believe in God), think about death, and then go that extra bit further and ask themselves what was the reason behind there existance. i thought it would be a common question people would ask themselves.

We do ask that question ... we just arrive at a different answer that's all.

 

[Zayd]

We create our own meaning in our life.



How can you say we create our own meaning of life, when we don't know what we will confront tomorow? thats as logical as i can get
You made the snowman, but were u the cause of it melting

 

[transcendent]

Throw down thy shackles! The shackles that bind your mind. The binds that restrict your life. The restriction imposed by an invisible force. RELIGION! Today I tell you, you are being lied to. For you are a lost sheep amount many sheep heading towards the same light. But this light is a lie! There is comfort, there is saving grace. For you who was borne from thy mother are nothing more than a blink in time from the neverending universe. You who are so insignificant, that when you realise this that you are free. At this freedom, you are borne again to realise you can achieve ANYTHING! That's right, without religion you are free to decide how to live your life. You are free to decide the path of good and evil as actions themselves are not inherently evil, it IS the intentions and the consequences of those actions that are evil. What greater evil there is than imprisoning a free being. Religion is the prime evil preventing you from reaching enlightenment. So free yourselves from the oppression of religion and save yourself the angst, the trauma, the inconvenience of a life imprisoned in an invisible cage.

- Libertine Satyr


If Islam is so much about being righteous and eliminating evil...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How can you say we create our own meaning of life, when we don't know what we will confront tomorow?

It doesn't matter that I don't know what will come tomorrow, however on that point I work with what I currently know about the world - provisional truths created from the best inference I can make - it might ultimately be wrong but currently it is the best truth i can get

thats as logical as i can get

Oh come on i'm sure you're more logical than that

You made the snowman, but were u the cause of it melting

No, I wasn't the direct cause of it melting - however of course it never would have melted if it was not created tho... I don't see the point of this statement :/

personally i believe i have the right to express my views.

And she has a right to get pissed off about your views and express that.

 

[transcendent]

Do YOU know what we are to confront tomorrow? Does anyone 100% know? Can you tell me oh religious nut were I can obtain these supernatural powers?

The sun melts the snowman.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Even though i believe i havent said anything wrong or offensive, i do apologize. However may i remind you that the topic being discussed is" does God exist" personally i believe i have the right to express my views. When you say i should use an open mind, if you read the anti-religion or anti-god existance comments you would be quite discussed with some of the comments. The thing that i fail to understand is that why do people who don't believe in God, think about death, and then go that extra bit further and ask themselves what was the reason behind there existance. i thought it would be a common question people would ask themselves.

you don;t understand why "stef your life is meaningless" was wrong or offensive??

you have the right to say and express what you want but im saying that telling me my life is meaningless or anyone's for that matter is a pretty dangerous thing to do in regards to your argument. And I am saying, it's probably not wise or tolerant. Not OMG you should be PROHIBITED from SAYING THAT!

I'm not sure about what you're getting at about the articles that are anti-god or anti-religion. Perhaps I would be disgusted. They probably don't have the same ideas as me so I don't see why its related to me in particular. Perhaps they should have an open mind too, but that doesn't excuse you from not having one as well. So I'm not sure why you brought that up.

I'd ask myself about my existance too if God didn't exist but I'd probably get over it and die, knowing I enriched other peoples experiences while living.

I understand where you get the meaning of life from relating to worhsipping God. I was once pretty downright religious myself. It's hard to understand how it could be meaningful without worshipping God, I really understand how crazy it feels, but living through life while not sure whether there is a God or not enriching lives is a meaningful and a very powerful driving force. When I die, God or no God, I would look back and be pleased. I feel that's an incredible feeling.

"Then what" doesn't matter to me. If there is a God, then he'd be hella proud. I feel a lot of atheists can probably say that, proposing that they were wrong.

My answer to God, if he asked me why I should be let into heaven, would be "I lived life enriching and appreciating all of your creations."

which I feel is no different to "i worshipped you as a muslim, how [i felt] you deserved to be worshipped"

If there isn't a God, I would not have a cry about being wrong but look back at life smiling.... That is my answer, and its not good enough for you. No reason to tell me my life is meaningless. The difference between you and me that PROPOSING God did not exist, you would look back and freak out with some questions, but I'd be pretty settled about it.

And I'm fully aware of the thread title thanks.

 

[ur_inner_child]

We create our own meaning in our life.



How can you say we create our own meaning of life, when we don't know what we will confront tomorow? thats as logical as i can get
You made the snowman, but were u the cause of it melting

I dont understand how you dont get that.

We don't care if its melting we had fun!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I dont understand how you dont get that.

The funny thing is he lives his life in the exact same way.

 

[*yooneek*]

My answer to God, if he asked me why I should be let into heaven, would be "I lived life enriching and appreciating all of your creations."

which I feel is no different to "i worshipped you as a muslim, how [i felt] you deserved to be worshipped"

If there isn't a God, I would not have a cry about being wrong but look back at life smiling....

the thing is, with your answer to God, the Bible says that Jesus will say "i never knew you"... why would you want to spend eternity with Him anyway? if in this life you don't want to...

say you did face Him when you die- doesn't that tell you that His word was therefore true- meaning that "living a life enriching and appreciating all of His creations" would not get you there- its much deeper than that- its not "look what i've done"- it's "look what Jesus did" - cause nothing we do can earn us heaven- which is why He died.

this is in no way a shot at you, and i do apologise i havent read all you've written in this thread- so this reply is a little bias to this one post...

 

[ur_inner_child]

the thing is, with your answer to God, the Bible says that Jesus will say "i never knew you"... why would you want to spend eternity with Him anyway? if in this life you don't want to...

say you did face Him when you die- doesn't that tell you that His word was therefore true- meaning that "living a life enriching and appreciating all of His creations" would not get you there- its much deeper than that- its not "look what i've done"- it's "look what Jesus did" - cause nothing we do can earn us heaven- which is why He died.

this is in no way a shot at you, and i do apologise i havent read all you've written in this thread- so this reply is a little bias to this one post...

you're absolutely right in the Catholic sense, but I was talking to Zayd, and he's muslim, a different system there.

But I won't let that post go unwasted. I'll definatley answer it

if we are going by 'what if's', and it was a Catholic God, in which was the last other God proposed, I'd probably talk to God for a very long time after that. We'd walk through our life and he'd probably understand why I stopped. About my baptism and how I still have the candles. About how on my confirmation, I did honestly believe. He'd probably smile about how many things I brought to my priest so that he could bless them... I was a single digit age back then. I wanted to be the best darn Catholic there ever was, there was a corner of the room where I'd section off with pictures of Mary and Jesus... I really did love God and Jesus. I was taught, from a very early age, that God was amazing, merciful and loving. THIS is what I still believe.

I think that's what led me to where I am now, besides the various events in my life. I wanted to be so good in God's eyes so freaking bad, that I even questioned the Bible itself. Sure, be tolerant towards sinners, but it meant to look at them differently, because it was part of human nature.

I'd tell God that through life, I did not want to be just tolerant with sinners (eg non-believers) I wanted to love and appreciate them as if they were equal.

Now I know some would protest that God doesn't prevent such a thing. But it made me question why they were "sinners" if they themselves were such intelligent, good, amazing people. Why, if God was so merciful, amazing and loving, as I knew from the core of my education, why did God punish such good people if they did not believe in Jesus? I then questioned the system of heaven and hell.

I'd say to God, "I believed. I truly did and you know it. I knew that you loved everyone but the religion I grew up in did not seem to be consistant with that fact".

It's a "hey, things didn't add up" excuse, but in my own personal beliefs, I feel he would understand...

Unless you meant the Christian God, through Jesus, (otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned confirmation and baptism) which you also seemed to have suggested. Are you swaying the debate about your own God without telling me who it is?

 

[SashatheMan]

Zayd are you just Zahid with another username? Or just fall into the same irrational muslim category?

 

[*yooneek*]

Its really nice you're so open about how you feel and where you stand with God etc… makes it really easy to talk to you.

Well firstly, im a Christian, hence I don’t believe in the whole Mary scene and the praying to saints, and calling priests fathers etc. but as is always the case- that’s another topic (im not educated enough about the catholic views but I do understand that Christians and catholics are extremely different in some regards- in the sense of putting mary up there next to Jesus)

Are you swaying the debate about your own God without telling me who it is?[/
o sorry …my God is the God of the Bible.


Now I know some would protest that God doesn't prevent such a thing. But it made me question why they were "sinners" if they themselves were such intelligent, good, amazing people. Why, if God was so merciful, amazing and loving, as I knew from the core of my education, why did God punish such good people if they did not believe in Jesus? I then questioned the system of heaven and hell.

I too struggle with this concept… the most amazing people I know, the kindest of all, the most loving and faithful to me as a friend, the most generous people… who don’t know the Lord… it just brings me to my knees and Im like ‘why Lord?’
but then im reminded that my standards and Gods standards are totally separate things. In His eyes “all fall short of the glory of God”… no one can deny their sin- even though it may be completely out weighed by their goodness.
So evidently, we are all in need of salvation- not just the “bad” people- everyone needs Jesus… hence those that don’t accept Him will go eternity without Him.
and its thinking about this that makes me so incredibly sad, but then thankful- cause who am I to deserve His salvation… I haven’t done anything to earn it… He knows me more than anyone- which is why grace is such an amazing thing- cause now when God looks at me, He sees Jesus… but yes, I really do understand how its hard to grasp why a kind loving God would send His creation to hell… but ultimately its nothing less than just. They don’t want to know Him.

I'd tell God that through life, I did not want to be just tolerant with sinners (eg non-believers) I wanted to love and appreciate them as if they were equal.
Well that is a very beautiful thing you know! Of course God doesn’t want us to just be tolerant of them- I mean look at Jesus- He was friends with prostitutes, tax collectors, lots of people who were looked down upon which is how they came to know Him as their saviour!
He didn’t just befriend the high and mighty people.
We are meant to know everyone, love them- cause just like them we understand what it is to wrestle with sin- and only by Gods grace am I able to know otherwise.
but you may have been referring to that verse in 2 Corinthians that says “do not be yoked with unbelievers”?

I knew that you loved everyone but the religion I grew up in did not seem to be consistant with that fact".

God does love everyone- but at the same time He hates sin and can’t tolerate it.

I really hope and pray that you do come to know God in a way where it makes sense to you and you really feel His love. Don’t give up.
You seem really nice- thanks for being so kind to me. xox

 

[dilroy]

Religion should be a really personal thing when you look inside you and your relationship with God. Perhaps shared with people who share your beliefs, yet when it comes to those who don't, you should keep an open mind and try to refrain from judgement and disrespect, without seeing them in the context of your religion...

Because I simply don't think about life the way you do.

Exactly, very true.

All religions basically exhort mankind to be righteous and eschew evil. But Islam goes beyond that. It guides us towards practical ways of achieving righteousness and eliminating evil from our individual and collective lives. Islam takes into account human nature and the complexities of human society. Islam is guidance from the Creator Himself. Therefore, Islam is also called the Deen-ul-Fitrah (the natural religion of Man).
Islam is the best way of life because its teachings are not doctrinaire rhetoric but practical solutions for the problems of mankind. Islam achieves results both at the individual and collective levels. Islam is the best way of life because it is a practical, universal religion not confined to any ethnic group or nationality.

In my opinion living life as a Muslim is not fulfilling a real life, driving from the cradle to the grave and passing by everything life has to offer, especially being an Islamic woman. I have a Muslim friend and she has a Catholic boyfriend, she has to keep her relationship with him private from her family members because she says that her father will kill her if she is to tell him... That to me is extremely wrong and she is very depressed being a Muslim, she wants to do many things in life... own a business, visit many different countries, not having to act as a servant to her own family... it's quiet sad.

The religion is simply way too extreme... and what happens if you die and find out it's not what it's meant to be.
If life in the mind of a Muslim is to serve Allah, to fulfil the rights of entry into the 'Islamic Heaven' than of course you'd become a terrorist... well I would because the meaning of life according to Muslims is to serve Allah right? I watched the program '30 days' and I recall a Muslim leader saying that life is not meant to be about having fun, but serving Allah etc... So a shortcut or an excuse to end the suffering of a 'real life' is just to kill infidels... and myself of course.

What you see on the media, the Cronulla riots, the cartoon controversy... even an Islamic cleric has a $1,000,000 reward for whoever kills the Danish cartoonists... that is a disgrace, a leader encouraging his own kind to become animals?

Believe me it's not just the media. I live in Berala, Wesern Sydney and experience them from first hand. They are a very aggresive bunch...
Of course when I visited Dubai for a holiday, the Muslims there are very different... more like normal human beings actually, besides the fact they can have four wives... what I like about Islam .

Back to the topic...
You have to realise that there were possibly over three religions created way before God was made through Judaism, which then branched into Christianity and finally Islam.
If your suicidal, a junkie, an idiot, or someone that goes on a rooting spree with multiple partners... than I guess you'll need religion for the morals they provide.

Humans created God, it's that simple...

 

[davin]

about death and stuff...from an agnostic viewpoint....the part i do feel fairly sure of is that there is not the concept of a good god that has a hand in what happens on earth. one of the big reasons for that was when I was 12, a friend of mine was murdered. Drive-by shooting, random crime, no reason it was him. at that time, i still wasn't religious, and it was extremely difficult to cope with because, with my beliefs...his life was over, period. The main way it effected my beliefs is that I couldn't possibly see how there could be a god controlling or significantly effecting what goes on on earth that would let a life that had so much potential be destroyed with such little thought.