Does God exist? (3 Viewers)

[katie tully]

Oh..!

 

[IMABOYDAMON!]

Martin Luther was working under the control of Satan when he wrote the theses and every church other than the Holy Orthodox and the Catholic churches are inspired by the damned words of satan himself.

Thanks for that! You really opened my satan-shut eyes

Thanks!

 

[emytaylor164]

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; 43 I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.' 44 Then they will answer him, "When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we would not help you?' 45 The King will reply, "I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me.' 46 These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."


So does this mean that atheists who donate their time or money to charities, or atheists who halp people are eligible for heaven?

no salvation is not on good works. it is on faith

Ephesians 2:6-8

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith in christ jesus, this is no of yourselves it is a gift from God not by good works so that no-one can boast.

Those passages are saying that faith should be followed by works as a way of showing faith.

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Isaiah 64:6

1 The fool [a] says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
Psalm 14:1

 

[katie tully]

So what good deeds do you do emy?
And does believing in God mean that your good deeds are held in higher esteem than my good deeds?

 

[BradCube]

Um emytaylor disagrees with you and she's read the bible sunshine.

I don't mind if emy disagrees with me. Opinions are opinions and will vary from christian to christian (as they would from atheist to atheist). All I'm really trying to point out is that not all Christians subscribe to the belief in young earth creation - so labeling us as such, does not seem appropriate to me.

I don't see how you can hold that position you're obviously a catholic

No, not catholic. I'm just trying to inject what I can see is the most reasonable belief between the biblical account of creation and what current cosmology suggests.

 

[emytaylor164]

So what good deeds do you do emy?
And does believing in God mean that your good deeds are held in higher esteem than my good deeds?

Good deeds, count for nothing they do not get you into heaven.

I volunteer at kids camps
I assist at church
and do my bit when i can

i know that they mean nothing to God though and he considers them dirty rags, they show my faith and do not contribute to heaven i know i am going there anyway.

 

[katie tully]

No, I didn't ask about heaven

I asked whether your good deeds are better than mine because you're doing them as an obligation to your faith.

 

[emytaylor164]

I don't mind if emy disagrees with me. Opinions are opinions and will vary from christian to christian (as they would from atheist to atheist). All I'm really trying to point out is that not all Christians subscribe to the belief in young earth creation - so labeling us as such, does not seem appropriate to me.



No, not catholic. I'm just trying to inject what I can see is the most reasonable belief between the biblical account of creation and what current cosmology suggests.

reasonable does not always= correct

 

[blakegman]

emytaylor seriously worries me.

 

[emytaylor164]

No, I didn't ask about heaven

I asked whether your good deeds are better than mine because you're doing them as an obligation to your faith.

I am not doing them out of obligation.

Do you mean to God or to humans?

 

[katie tully]

I am not doing them out of obligation.

Do you mean to God or to humans?

Well hold on, let's back up.

If good deeds do not count towards your admission into heaven, why do you do them? If you proclaim your love for God and do everything else a Christian is meant to do, then is it safe to say that good deeds are irrelevent and not obligatory?

I'm asking whether you think your good deeds are above the good deeds of say an atheist, because yours are motivated by your faith.

 

[emytaylor164]

Well hold on, let's back up.

If good deeds do not count towards your admission into heaven, why do you do them? If you proclaim your love for God and do everything else a Christian is meant to do, then is it safe to say that good deeds are irrelevent and not obligatory?

I'm asking whether you think your good deeds are above the good deeds of say an atheist, because yours are motivated by your faith.

I do them because i want to and i want to bring glory to God, like camp, i do that because I want to share christ with the kids and i love doing it.
I think Good works are to bring Glory to God, I think that if an athiest is doing good deeds then that is good, but they are not to bring glory to God, and are worthless.

 

[BradCube]

reasonable does not always= correct

Agreed - but I find it is the best position when lacking definitive proof. Either way, I find that we almost exclusively choose to believe what is most reasonable to us in everyday situations all the time.

ie. I find it most reasonable to assume that the fastest way of driving somewhere on a particular day is taking the shortest route. It may turn out that I am in fact wrong, because traffic conditions were preferable on another route but I am still bound to choose what I see to be the most reasonable choice (which the shortest route was at the time). When lacking the knowledge of an all knowing God I have no other choice apart from what is most reasonable.

 

[emytaylor164]

Agreed - but that I find it is the best position when lacking definitive proof. Either way, I find that we almost exclusively choose to believe what is most reasonable to us in everyday situations all the time.

ie. I find it most reasonable to assume that the fastest way of driving somewhere on a particular day is taking the shortest route. It may turn out that I am in fact wrong, because traffic conditions were preferable on another route but I am still bound to choose what I see to be the most reasonable choice (which the shortest route was at the time). When lacking the knowledge of an all knowing God I have no other choice apart from what is most reasonable.

fair enough if that is the approach you take i would encourage you pray for wisdom about God.

 

[katie tully]

I do them because i want to and i want to bring glory to God, like camp, i do that because I want to share christ with the kids and i love doing it.
I think Good works are to bring Glory to God, I think that if an athiest is doing good deeds then that is good, but they are not to bring glory to God, and are worthless.

So when an atheist donates money and time to charities, and volunteers for non denominational charities etc these can be considered as worthless acts?

And atheists who donate to say, The Red Cross winter appeal are just worthless acts?

14 Dear brothers and sisters, what's the use of saying you have faith if you don't prove it by your actions? That kind of faith can't save anyone. 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who needs food or clothing, 16 and you say, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat well" - but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? 17 So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all - it is dead and useless.

This statement here seems to contradict your idea that good deeds do not count in your admission to heaven. All the verses I've posted show a general trend towards good deeds as being necessary to prove your faith.

18 Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." I say, "I can't see your faith if you don't have good deeds, but I will show you my faith through my good deeds."

19 Do you still think it's enough just to believe that there is one God? Well, even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror! 20 Fool! When will you ever learn that faith that does not result in good deeds is useless?

Again, would you agree that this statement implies that good deeds are necessary for acceptence into heaven?

 

[emytaylor164]

So when an atheist donates money and time to charities, and volunteers for non denominational charities etc these can be considered as worthless acts?

And atheists who donate to say, The Red Cross winter appeal are just worthless acts?



This statement here seems to contradict your idea that good deeds do not count in your admission to heaven. All the verses I've posted show a general trend towards good deeds as being necessary to prove your faith.



Again, would you agree that this statement implies that good deeds are necessary for acceptence into heaven?

I believe as do the vast majority of christians that those verses are discussing the whole idea of works demonstating faith, not contributing to heaven, as a way of showing true faith if you like.
I know that i found it very hard to understand those verses until I asked a lots of people.

 

[emytaylor164]

I believe as do the vast majority of christians that those verses are discussing the whole idea of words demonstating faith, not contributing to heaven, as a way of showing true faith if you like.
I know that i found it very hard to understand those verses until I asked a lots of people.

i gtg get ready for church might come back tonight afterwards.

 

[BradCube]

fair enough if that is the approach you take i would encourage you pray for wisdom about God.

I have, and will continue to

Also, not sure why you've re-edited your question about whether I am a Christian - but I'll answer anyway in the affirmative - yes I am.

 

[katie tully]

I believe as do the vast majority of christians that those verses are discussing the whole idea of words demonstating faith, not contributing to heaven, as a way of showing true faith if you like.
I know that i found it very hard to understand those verses until I asked a lots of people.

But by asking other people, you're accepting another persons interpretation of the verses. Not your own.

It seems pretty clear to me that faith without deeds is worthless, so it's safe to assume that good deeds are necessary for acceptence into heaven.

If you disagree with this, are you agreeing that it's possible to get into heaven as a Christian without ever demonstrating tangible acts of faith?

 

[katie tully]

Also, I don't get this.

if good deeds do not count towards accession into heaven, then why is a good deed that is not motivated by faith worthless?

it would seem that they're both of equal importance.

YR JUST MAKING STUFF UP NOW