Does God exist? (15 Viewers)

[inasero]

Oh oh, now you've done it ... snap

Done what?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

HOLY SHIT GUYS IF YOU BELIEVE THAT DISEASE AND OTHER AFFLICTIONS ARE PUNISHMENTS FROM GOD THEN AREN'T YOU ACTING AGAINST GOD'S WILL BY BECOMING A DOCTOR?

 

[inasero]

... Are you ... are you serious?



You officially lose your knowledge of science pass.

Why?

 

[Kwayera]

or you could actually believe it and accept that they did live around 1000 years no? and i explained how they could have lived that long already.

No you didn't, and even with our current technology (unless we develop the ability to overcome the hayflick limit and totally rig our bodies to stop producing reactive oxygen species), living beyond ~100 years is impossible.


It staggers me that YOU, supposedly studying to be a doctor (I'd like proof of that, come to think of it), either don't understand that or don't care to.

 

[Kwayera]

Oh oh, now you've done it ... snap

 

[boris]

Um.

 

[inasero]

Why give them freewill if they're not meant to exercise it. Surely God knew giving them free will, that they would use it.
If he could anticipate they would disobey him, why give it to them?

They were meant to exercise their free will- to respect and honour God because it was their choice and not because they didn't know any other way. It's like...why have children if you know they'll be naughty? You want to be in a relationship with them and for them to truly appreciate you.

 

[boris]

They were meant to exercise their free will- to respect and honour God because it was their choice and not because they didn't know any other way. It's like...why have children if you know they'll be naughty? You want to be in a relationship with them and for them to truly appreciate you.

When my kid is naughty, I punish him appropriately.
I don't inflict disease upon him.

 

[inasero]

jesus h. fucking christ on a bicycle built for two

my year 9's have a better understanding of the nature of science than you do

how can you say with certainty that people didn't actually live to that ripe old age? what makes my claims so much more ridiculous than yours?

 

[BradCube]

hmm, don't really understand you'll have to restate. i believe we have a moral law, its universal, and we base our right and wrong, most of society's laws, religions, and decisions on it... but whereas you might believe its divinely inspired, i believe its a consequence of evolution.

All that I was really pointing out was that, regardless of people's current moral beliefs, this does not disprove objective morality - since objective morality is independent of what people believe.

Also, how do you feel about the proposal that evolutionary based morality falls prey to the genetic fallacy when arguing against objective morality? (I'm in mixed minds currently)

 

[Captain Gh3y]

When my kid is naughty, I punish him appropriately.
I don't inflict disease upon him.

fuck you, just for looking at that woman with lust in your eye, i'm creating smallpox

 

[inasero]

When my kid is naughty, I punish him appropriately.
I don't inflict disease upon him.

please read my previous reply

 

[Captain Gh3y]

how can you say with certainty that people didn't actually live to that ripe old age? what makes my claims so much more ridiculous than yours?

telomere replication, just for one thing off the top of my head

but you apparently know so much more about DNA than us, lol

 

[boris]

please read my previous reply

Yeah and I don't get it.
If God isn't vengeful, why would he inflict disease upon his creation. Why not just turn his back and ignore them, or smite them completely?

Inflicting disease seems like a pretty vengeful thing to do.

 

[inasero]

"That doesn't explain why sin has generally increased in line with increased life spans in the western world, assuredly disease would just get worse and worse"

EDIT: How could you ethically be a doctor when it is going against God's righteous anger? Seems like a contradiction.

How is being a doctor going againt God's supposed righteous anger? Are you arguing on the basis that death and disease are inflicted on us by God? Cos if so, I've responded to that argument already.

 

[boris]

How is being a doctor going againt God's supposed righteous anger? Are you arguing on the basis that death and disease are inflicted on us by God? Cos if so, I've responded to that argument already.

Well God had to have inflicted it. If it was not present until Adam and Eve disobeyed God, where did it come from?
It didn't just manifest out of thin air.

God had to have willed it upon mankind, no?

 

[ur_inner_child]

What is the difference between acts that are of God's will or punishment, and just actions/happenings that occur out of sheer chance or from a series of other events?

e.g.

HIV/AIDS/Cancer/Black Plague/Malaria/SARS/other noteable diseases
September 11th/Titanic/other man-made tragedies
El nino/volcano eruptions/hurricanes/earthquakes/tidal waves
Miscarriages/birth defects/disabilities
Death in the family
Rape
Incest
Breaking/fracturing a bone
Bad marks at uni
Running your shins into a table causing huge bruises
Wisdom teeth pain
Obesity
Insomnia
Back pain
Lactose intolerance
Getting rejected by your crush
That huge blind pimple on your forehead

List goes on? I just have to list anything bad?

 

[boris]

What is the difference between acts that are of God's will or punishment, and just actions/happenings that occur out of sheer chance or from a series of other events?

e.g.

HIV/AIDS/Cancer/Black Plague/Malaria/SARS/other noteable diseases
September 11th/Titanic/other man-made tragedies
El nino/volcano eruptions/hurricanes/earthquakes/tidal waves
Miscarriages/birth defects/disabilities
Death in the family
Rape
Incest
Breaking/fracturing a bone
Bad marks at uni
Running your shins into a table causing huge bruises
Wisdom teeth pain
Obesity
Insomnia
Back pain
Lactose intolerance
Getting rejected by your crush
That huge blind pimple on your forehead

List goes on? I just have to list anything bad?

Going out on a limb here, but I am guessing that if Adam and Eve didn't disobey God, none of these would exist and we'd be perfectly, happy little vegemites.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Just a question I've always had when people say anything at all is "God's will".

 

[inasero]

Yeah and I don't get it.
If God isn't vengeful, why would he inflict disease upon his creation. Why not just turn his back and ignore them, or smite them completely?

Inflicting disease seems like a pretty vengeful thing to do.

That's a great question and I'm glad you asked. It's difficult to see how death and disease could have entered into this world and you might be inclined to think that God therefore inflicted these things on us poor little humans. The Bible also says,

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows

- that includes everything like our health, friends, family, material blessings etc. When mankind sinned in the Garden of Eden then effectively man was cut off God, as symbolised by being banished never to return. Also in Genesis it says

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever"".

Fortunately for us God is anything but spiteful and vengeful. Although He would have been perfectly justified in doing what you suggested, he still looked after Adam and Eve outside the Garden of Eden, and provided the ultimate way for us to be made right with him when he sent his son Jesus so we wouldn't have to live with the consequences of our sin any longer.

You know the term "scapegoat"- thats someone who takes the blame of another person. Well the Jewish sacrificial system required having to make a sacrifice once a year and often that would be a goat- hence the term "scapegoat". Jesus came as the only pure and perfect sacrifice so we can be right with God forever and not have to face the consequences of our sins.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

but...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"