Does God exist? (6 Viewers)

[withoutaface]

Just on the scientific facts being lifted from the Bible/Quran/whereever, can somebody give me an example of where a hypothesis has first been interpreted from a holy text, then scientifically tested and verfied without that field being throughly investigated before? Because 99.9% of the time these quotes either state the obvious, or could have dozens of meanings, most of which are absurd.

 

[crazyhomo]

Okay that's a retarded thing to say. You might not believe in it but that doesn't mean it's important to a heck of a lot of people.


Ah, the classic world hunger argument. Definitely un-original and cliche.

How about this:


Make sense?

Oh, btw, the chances of the big bang happening has been calculated to be something in the area of 10 to the power of one with 10 kilometres of typewritten zeros after

firstly, that is a terrible analogy. would the father give the same answer if the question had been 'if your child had been taken away to live in a 3rd world country where he will starve to death, would you go and get him?' the answer would be, 'fuck yes'. what lesson is god teaching these children who are dying from hunger, aids and natural disasters?

and secondly, who predicted this probability of the big bang happening? and please, explain how they worked out this number.

oh, and btw when playing bridge, the odds of receiving a particular hand are one in 635,013,559,600. my question is, if you played bridge, would you assumed the hand you've been dealt is so very unlikely that it's impossible for you to have received it?

edit: the odds of a particular deal, which includes the hands of all four people playing, is 53,644,737,765,488,792,839,237,440,000. is it impossible to ever play a hand because the odds are so unlikely of it happning that it can't exist?

 

[gerhard]

"You are confused because the bible describes god as an omnipotent and benevolent diety"
"Exactly."
"Omnipotent-benevolent simply means God is all knowing AND well-meaning."
"I understand the concept. It's just ... there seems to be a contradiction."
"Yes, the contradiction is pain. Man's starvation, war, sickness."
"Exactly, terrible things happen in this world. Human tragedy seems like proof that God could not be both well-meaning and all powerful. If he loves us and has the power to change our situation, wouldn't he?"
"Would he?"
"Well if God loves us and He can protect us, he would have to. It seems he is either omnipotent and doesn't care, or benevolent and is powerless."
"Do you have children, Lieutenant?"
"No signore."
"Imagine you had an eight year old son, would you love him?"
"Of course."
"Would you do everything in your power to prevent pain in his life?"
"Of course."
So if you were god and could design any universe for your child to live in, would you design a universe which didnt have suffering?
"Of course."
"Oh shit, wrong question"

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Come on guys, it was a nice story

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Just because in another thread I noticed some people still have some odd notion that atheists are 'bad/immoral' people, here's a nice video showing some atheists whom have contributed greatly to society.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

I don't like some of the stats and some of the claimed atheists would probably go under another umbrella, but they are if anything non-believers. I am aware that there are also bad examples, but I just got the vibe from another discussion that some people might think it's impossible for someone to be atheist and a good person.

 

[sam04u]

Here is how I responded in the youtube site;

How about religions such as Islam which promotes studying science and has no contradictions about 'cosmology', would you rule that out aswell? Just because it isn't on par with your atheism? Sure, they believe in a deity and other "moral" laws, but they don't contradict science. Infact the quran makes a few accurate predictions. eg(Embryology, Meteoroly, Copernican model of 'Solar-Systems' among many other things), people have argued in the Quran where it says '7days', but only in the Quran (out of the 3 abrahamic religious books) does it say this "A day can seem like more than 500,000 days to you".

Islam and Atheism are the only two 'religious/non religious' groups which are spiralling and for good reason. Islam has 'never' made any scientific contradictions and also has a 'set' moral boundary which atheism doesn't. The Quran also has strong reference to the Big-Bang and also the Big-Crunch (whihc is sad because I don't believe the big-crunch will actually happen, I'm more in favour off a fluctuating universe, which just differentiates into empty space.

Islam also supports Alien Life, and actual Space. However, Islam has one thing which Atheists may believe. Islam does not support evolution of mankind. Infact it does the opposite. According to Islam, the first two humans were made by God. (which you will never disprove.) Also, try explaining monotremes 'laughs violently', fools.

 

[gerhard]

i may be getting my islamic posters confused, but wasnt it you sam04u, who believed in djinn and spiritual healers and all that? because that is way more anti science than any evolution or cosmology arguments.

 

[littlewing69]

Islam also supports Alien Life

How fucking scientific.

 

[littlewing69]

Islam and Atheism are the only two 'religious/non religious' groups which are spiralling and for good reason. Islam has 'never' made any scientific contradictions and also has a 'set' moral boundary which atheism doesn't.

Atheist: I will not murder because I think it is incorrect to take the life of a human being, and because I believe that murder is detrimental to society.

Muslim: I will not murder because Allah told me not to.


Which one is more ethically sound, again? It sounds to me like the muslim just has instructions, while the atheist has an actual moral and ethical code.

 

[alinar]

i think for people to believe there is nothing greater in the world than humans themselves is a little self absorbed, but who's to say it's god???

all i know is that the greatest atrocities ever committed by man were in the name of religion.

i think it has stoped being about reigion and it's now more about respecting each others beliefs

P.S... I'm Buddhist

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i think for people to believe there is nothing greater in the world than humans themselves is a little self absorbed

We're genetically programmed to feel such a way...

P.S... I'm Buddhist

Grats to you. Are you a real buddhist, or a hippie buddhist?

 

[crazyhomo]

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=219&article=7

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't like such studies to be honest.

 

[sam04u]

CrazyHomo, I already showed before that taking information out of context can show irrelevant information.

I found 50 emo-cutters (people who make themselves bleed to feel), and 80% of them were atheist/agnostic.

Does that mean that there is a link between atheist people, and people that cut themselves? uhhh... no, that would be quite stupid.

Religion in the 'short term', can show violence among other things. But, if you don't believe as has been said in almost every abrahamic religion and most other religions. (When people deny God, and live their lives on 'contemporary' morals, a system of morals which is established by religion slowly deteriorates, and you end up with a society which inevitably crumbles). I actually see the logic in that, and you may not. Is that proof that religion was created by a higher order?

Perhaps more people will find the transition to 'atheism' (if that's the correct word for it), more appealing if there was an actual 'set of moral and ethical obligations', which was perhaps produced by certain professors of psycholoy, psychiatry and philosophy. as well as a few more 'commonly accepted' theories and ideas to go with the group. Otherwise people deviate far from plan and might even become irrational and commit heinous crimes. eg(Burning religious sites).

In my opinion (which you can criticise), Yes, 'God' which is loosely defined must exist. [I've explained my beliefs earlier, which some may have not agreed with]. My opinion may change, but there is little logical information to compel me to change and therefore I would be stupid to change from my religious beliefs based on faulty and sometimes 'unproven' theory. (when there are religious texts with relevants produced centuries ago, which is yet to be disproved. )

Don't you agree?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

set of moral and ethical obligations

Well atheism doesn't offer that, but the sort of rational/critical thinking that atheists propose lead to atheism does have morals/ethics, they're just not the sort of strict laws that you prefer.

 

[sam04u]

Re: N-T-B
Hey, yeah sorry for using the 'same old crap', alot of that was just 'general' argument. Which gets tiresome. I understand how you could argue, 'kissing hanks ass', right now about how just because some things are common sense it doesn't mean I could argues that religion is completely right (because some common sense stuff is listed), so if it looked like I made that assumption sorry.

Basically what I was saying is 'Because there is no articulate moral and ethical guidelines', that alot of atheist people wouldn't have many moral constrictions. Basically, anythign which wasn't modern wouldn't be contested, and therefore what is 'right and wrong'?

It's not just that though, It's the questions left unanswered and the belief which I have, (pretty strong if you've noticed).

Good Luck. (Good on you for being courageous enough, if I remember correctly you came from a religious family? If you think you've found the truth then I would never challenge you as you're in the same boat as me )

 

[gerhard]

people seem to mellow out after a while here.
see: sam04u, anti mathmite...

 

[sam04u]

Yeah, once you've made every point and had a bit of exposure of the ideas and thoughts then you can relax and you also get a bit of experience in the type of discussion. eg( 7-day, Fying-Faghetti-Monster, etc etc)

 

[IceOnFire]

i personally don't believe in god... or anything spiritual, but sometimes i do wonder if there is an after life. u no how some people say "u only have one life, treasure it", or something like that. Well perhaps we have more than one life, and we recarinate into another being. I did this quiz online and apparently in my previous life i was a hamster.. =.=" wtf.. hahahha

 

[sam04u]

Lol, reincarnation. Well, according to this philosopher I was talking too he was speaking about 'sharing atoms', and logically at anytime you could have upto 10,000 molecules in you (either water, oxygen, carbon etc) from many other animals and people from the past. (Including Moses, Jesus, Einstein etc etc), In a sense that is 'like reincarnation', cause even after you die, the tiny bit of oxygen u took as your first breath, could be someones dying breath. The first drop of water you bled, could be another mans sanctuary in a glass of water after almost dying of dehydration. So, that's like reincarnation.... In a way .