Disadvantage going to UWS? or not? (1 Viewer)

[Alimoe_KG]

Why the hell do people keep making these threads? All you have to do is like scroll down and you see another one.

I disagree with some parts of Natstar and LaraB's comments. According to you two, the name of the uni doesn't matter, it's the marks you get, the industry experience etc. As long as you score high in those areas, bam, USYDers and UNSWers and UTSers don't have shit on you. But perhaps those USYDers and UNSWers and UTSers also got big ticks in those areas?

We have 2 applicants for a job: A D average student from UWS and a D average student from UNSW/USYD/etc. Both have strong work experience and both are engaging personalities.
...
Who does the employer choose? Are you sure that the Uni name won't have an influence? Are you sure the UWSer won't be disadvantaged? I think the UWSer will get pwned.

If uni names didn't matter, than employers will choose an HD honours student from UWS over a P (or equivalent) student from Harvard. But as if the employers that stupid.

Furthermore, you two keep referring to that ninemsn guy and you keep talking about your own secure career prospects. But like wtf. That's 3 people. I have no doubt that Natstar and LaraB are doing exceedingly welll at uni, but most UWSers aren't as brilliant. Just as every uni has its HD students, every uni has its P students. And i'd much rather be a P student at a prestige uni than one from UWS.

The arguments of you two are based on the assumption that if you go to UWS and do brilliantly and have good work experience to back the academic side up, you can compete easily with prestige uni students. It is also based on the assumption that USYD/UNSW students will all score lower marks and will all have pitiful work experience when compared to you. Like wtf?

Maybe you two won't be disadvantaged as UWS graduates. But UWS has more students than that. And it's hard to believe that people entering USYD/UNSW with high HSC marks and high UAIs will suddenly roll over and die while those going into UWS with generally lower marks and UAIs that are often reflective of their work ethic will suddenly get inspired into academic brilliance.

Yes, UWSers will be employed and will have career prospects. But what kind of careers are we talking about here. How many UWS graduates do you see at the upper echelons of business? Yeah UWS students willl have great career prospects, but USYD/UNSW graduates can generally expected much greater ones. Maybe businesses who are biased again UWS graduates are slack and should go to hell, but it's just business.

Finally, UWS is financially in a shithole last i heard. Unis like UNSW and USYD are Go8 which means they generally get more funding and have unmatchable facilities. Money buys the best teachers and the best equipment, which facilitates an environment that can produce the better graduates.


Yeah it's pretty stupid to say that UWS degrees aren't worth the paper they're on or to say UWS graduates are doomed to pack my groceries. Even people going to Tafe or not going on to higher education at all get employed with some going into successful careers. But who the fuck are we kidding, you probably aren't that kind of person. The reality is, the cohort at UWS is probably less intellectually stimulating than that of other unis. I think it wouldn't be wrong to say that individual determination and work isn't enough on its own, you need smart people around you who you can bounce ideas off and you need facilities that can help you solve your problems. UWS has a few smart cookies like (i think) LaraB, Natstar and NTB but hey, how many smart hardworking people do you know in your class?

I would just like to conclude my long fucking essay that no one will ever read by saying that when we say UWS is shit, we're not saying that you can't still succeed if you go in there and work hard and get your HD averages or whatever, we're just saying you probably won't. And it's probably better to do shit at a prestige uni than do shit at a shit uni.


P.S. Why the fuck is Law at UWS under the School of Business or whatever? It's shit like that that makes even the most open-minded person think twice about coming to UWS.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

P.S. Why the fuck is Law at UWS under the School of Business or whatever? It's shit like that that makes even the most open-minded person think twice about coming to UWS.

I believe it's the college of business and the school of law...

 

[Alimoe_KG]

I believe it's the college of business and the school of law...

Yes you're right, sorry. But it's wierd that the school of law is put under the College of Business.

 

[AsyLum]

We have 2 applicants for a job: A D average student from UWS and a D average student from UNSW/USYD/etc. Both have strong work experience and both are engaging personalities.
...
Who does the employer choose? Are you sure that the Uni name won't have an influence? Are you sure the UWSer won't be disadvantaged? I think the UWSer will get pwned.

I would be willing to bet, that the one to get a job would be the one with a better extra-curricular record, not just work experience. Furthermore, if it were in the field of Communications, i would pick the UWSer since they would have closer links to the industry and would be easier to pick up from the word go.

As you can see, its not as simple as if A=B, but B is a USYDer and A is a UWSer, then B>A. Sure name carries to a certain extent, but there are several different factors which still need to be taken into account.

 

[Alimoe_KG]

I would be willing to bet, that the one to get a job would be the one with a better extra-curricular record, not just work experience. Furthermore, if it were in the field of Communications, i would pick the UWSer since they would have closer links to the industry and would be easier to pick up from the word go.

As you can see, its not as simple as if A=B, but B is a USYDer and A is a UWSer, then B>A. Sure name carries to a certain extent, but there are several different factors which still need to be taken into account.

I think with the amount of clubs and societies at USYD/UNSW, their graduates can generally match people from UWS when it comes to extra-curricular.

But your second point is a fair one. However, what if these were two people in the areas of law or finance or accounting or science or engineering? I think UNSW/USYD would kind of dominate in these areas don't you think? I don't think every UWSer does Communications.

Sure UWS pwns USYD and UNSW in some areas. I've heard or read on this site that its psychology degree is one of the nation's best. But i think its fair to say that the majority of its courses are pretty damn mediocre.

The reason Unis like UNSW and USYD are regarded as the "best" is that they're multi-disciplinary. UTS and Macq are awesome in their specialised fields. UWS is good at what it's good at. But it's good at very very few things.

 

[stazi]

airness - as always, great points.

 

[...]

I think with the amount of clubs and societies at USYD/UNSW, their graduates can generally match people from UWS when it comes to extra-curricular.

But your second point is a fair one. However, what if these were two people in the areas of law or finance or accounting or science or engineering? I think UNSW/USYD would kind of dominate in these areas don't you think? I don't think every UWSer does Communications.

Sure UWS pwns USYD and UNSW in some areas. I've heard or read on this site that its psychology degree is one of the nation's best. But i think its fair to say that the majority of its courses are pretty damn mediocre.

The reason Unis like UNSW and USYD are regarded as the "best" is that they're multi-disciplinary. UTS and Macq are awesome in their specialised fields. UWS is good at what it's good at. But it's good at very very few things.

ROFL!!!!

i give 5 stars for this post

 

[AsyLum]

I think with the amount of clubs and societies at USYD/UNSW, their graduates can generally match people from UWS when it comes to extra-curricular.

But your second point is a fair one. However, what if these were two people in the areas of law or finance or accounting or science or engineering? I think UNSW/USYD would kind of dominate in these areas don't you think? I don't think every UWSer does Communications.

Sure UWS pwns USYD and UNSW in some areas. I've heard or read on this site that its psychology degree is one of the nation's best. But i think its fair to say that the majority of its courses are pretty damn mediocre.

The reason Unis like UNSW and USYD are regarded as the "best" is that they're multi-disciplinary. UTS and Macq are awesome in their specialised fields. UWS is good at what it's good at. But it's good at very very few things.

When you compare the relative ages, you see that all these comparisons are based on this:

USYD est. 1850
UNSW est. 1949 with links back to two colleges: Sydney Mechanics Institute in 1843, leading to the formation of the Sydney Technical College in 1878.
UTS est. 1988 with links to: antecedent institutions, going back as far as 1893 but taking new shapes from the 1960s onwards
MQ est. 1964
UWS est. 1988 with a few colleges, oldest Hawkesbury Agricultural College, from 1891.

You guys basically got a 100 year headstart

 

[smiley20]

Why did u start this thread smiley20, to reassure yourself that your future is not as dim as a blackhole because you attend UWS?

And to the UWS students, if you are so confident and assured of UWS's standing in the tertiary education system, why do you always feel the need to defend it like rabid dogs against the most childish and obviously inflammatory barbs?

LOL why are you attacking me in that post?


I just wanted to start an interesting thread and see what people think? is that a problem to you? HAHA

take it easy mate its only a discussion LoL

 

[stazi]

yes, and that head start is partially what gives the other unis an advantage. This is also coupled with the fact that UWS' location is poor, the reputation (which is built, agreeably, through time) is bad, the candidates attending it are generally bad, etc.

 

[chocolate_chip]

I always want the best, so I would never in my life to go UWS, its got a pretty bad rep and people think of you less if you tell them you go there. But that is the way I think, and if you guys are satisfied going there that’s ok too. Everyone is different and also UWS may have degrees that other unis don’t.

In the end everyone will get a job no matter what uni you go to. All you need is really good grades and work experience, and sometimes connections.

But if you go to Havard, when you apply for a high position, you will easily get chosen over other people who wen to a uni from here. I know this for a fact because my brother graduated from there, he did an MBA and now earns shit loads.

But I will say this - commerce and business at UWS is shit, the courses are too easy compared to other unis who’s courses challenge you more. Many people I know have transferred from there into other unis and have said the same thing.

 

[AsyLum]

What the fuck are you doing in Australia? You want the best? Then go off to Harvard, Yale or Oxford, you douchebag.

 

[LaraB]

Why the hell do people keep making these threads? All you have to do is like scroll down and you see another one.

I disagree with some parts of Natstar and LaraB's comments. According to you two, the name of the uni doesn't matter, it's the marks you get, the industry experience etc. As long as you score high in those areas, bam, USYDers and UNSWers and UTSers don't have shit on you. But perhaps those USYDers and UNSWers and UTSers also got big ticks in those areas?

We have 2 applicants for a job: A D average student from UWS and a D average student from UNSW/USYD/etc. Both have strong work experience and both are engaging personalities.
...
Who does the employer choose? Are you sure that the Uni name won't have an influence? Are you sure the UWSer won't be disadvantaged? I think the UWSer will get pwned.

If uni names didn't matter, than employers will choose an HD honours student from UWS over a P (or equivalent) student from Harvard. But as if the employers that stupid.

Furthermore, you two keep referring to that ninemsn guy and you keep talking about your own secure career prospects. But like wtf. That's 3 people. I have no doubt that Natstar and LaraB are doing exceedingly welll at uni, but most UWSers aren't as brilliant. Just as every uni has its HD students, every uni has its P students. And i'd much rather be a P student at a prestige uni than one from UWS.

The arguments of you two are based on the assumption that if you go to UWS and do brilliantly and have good work experience to back the academic side up, you can compete easily with prestige uni students. It is also based on the assumption that USYD/UNSW students will all score lower marks and will all have pitiful work experience when compared to you. Like wtf?

Maybe you two won't be disadvantaged as UWS graduates. But UWS has more students than that. And it's hard to believe that people entering USYD/UNSW with high HSC marks and high UAIs will suddenly roll over and die while those going into UWS with generally lower marks and UAIs that are often reflective of their work ethic will suddenly get inspired into academic brilliance.

Yes, UWSers will be employed and will have career prospects. But what kind of careers are we talking about here. How many UWS graduates do you see at the upper echelons of business? Yeah UWS students willl have great career prospects, but USYD/UNSW graduates can generally expected much greater ones. Maybe businesses who are biased again UWS graduates are slack and should go to hell, but it's just business.

Finally, UWS is financially in a shithole last i heard. Unis like UNSW and USYD are Go8 which means they generally get more funding and have unmatchable facilities. Money buys the best teachers and the best equipment, which facilitates an environment that can produce the better graduates.


Yeah it's pretty stupid to say that UWS degrees aren't worth the paper they're on or to say UWS graduates are doomed to pack my groceries. Even people going to Tafe or not going on to higher education at all get employed with some going into successful careers. But who the fuck are we kidding, you probably aren't that kind of person. The reality is, the cohort at UWS is probably less intellectually stimulating than that of other unis. I think it wouldn't be wrong to say that individual determination and work isn't enough on its own, you need smart people around you who you can bounce ideas off and you need facilities that can help you solve your problems. UWS has a few smart cookies like (i think) LaraB, Natstar and NTB but hey, how many smart hardworking people do you know in your class?

I would just like to conclude my long fucking essay that no one will ever read by saying that when we say UWS is shit, we're not saying that you can't still succeed if you go in there and work hard and get your HD averages or whatever, we're just saying you probably won't. And it's probably better to do shit at a prestige uni than do shit at a shit uni.

P.S. Why the fuck is Law at UWS under the School of Business or whatever? It's shit like that that makes even the most open-minded person think twice about coming to UWS.

before you go on a huge bitch spiel next time - actually read what i said.

i did not say no UWS student will be disadvantaged - i said that if you do well you will not so obviously a P student will be disadvantaged, just as you are at any uni..the degree of disadvanatge wuold vary depending on field and firm but you probably owuld be for being a P student.

I DID NOT say that if you are a good UWS student you WILL beat out all other students from other unis to jobs. I said that being at UWS will NOT mean that you will be beaten out to jobs by non-uws studets provided you do well.

you don't need a HD average at uws to comprae to other unis... thats such a ridiculous bullshit statement....

stop making these baseless bullshit assumptions that next to no one at uws works hard - there are a small group in my classes who don't but the vast majority do. given your statement you clearly DO NOT know the make up of the student body at uws... i mean.. hey we have a shitload of postgrads and international students hwo pay a shitload each year to go to the uni but nah - they're at uws so they don't work hard and arent motivated or intelligent...

Money buys the best teachers - what the fuck sort of ridiculous statement is that... i doubt you even know what the pay scales of lectruers etc are! if you had half a clue you would notice that the employment agreements at several unis are almost duplicates bar the uni name - so - put simply - you're wrong

I never said every uws student will succeed... obviously not all will - but this s teh same AT EVERY SINGLE UNI IN THE COUNTRY!

you completely ignore the fact that there are equally firms who hate the snobbery that is usually associated with 'prestige' unis... you ignore the fact that different unis are regarded more or less highly in certain fields... you ignore the fact that equivalent courses at different unis are structured differently and employers are well aware of this... you ignore the level of practical vs theoretical study at different unis... you ignore the fact that you are making bullshit generalisations claiming that there are only a handful of smart and hard working stuednts at uws...

i am well aware that there are good studentst at unsw usyd uts etc... but big shit - there's good students at every uni and just because you have the uni name it doesn't mean you get the job. I have been in employment situations where i got jobs over prestige uni students as have my peers... all you have given are hypothetical examples... as usual, you will probably do lke every one does and give the "well that's just a few exmaples, most cases uws gets owned" - well gimme some examples then rather than crap you hypothesise

 

[LaraB]

When you compare the relative ages, you see that all these comparisons are based on this:

USYD est. 1850
UNSW est. 1949 with links back to two colleges: Sydney Mechanics Institute in 1843, leading to the formation of the Sydney Technical College in 1878.
UTS est. 1988 with links to: antecedent institutions, going back as far as 1893 but taking new shapes from the 1960s onwards
MQ est. 1964
UWS est. 1988 with a few colleges, oldest Hawkesbury Agricultural College, from 1891.

You guys basically got a 100 year headstart

lol - yeah but most people are too stupid to notice that...

the people who go on the big "our unis are better" spiels seem to think it doesn't matter that uws, mac and uts achieved more in its first few decades than the othe runis have...

if you were to lok at the trends and continue them for the period of time that the longer est'd unis have existed and look at the so called criteria of a goo duni these students provide, Mac, Uws and Uts would be of a much greater quality than the more est'd unis at teh same point in time...

 

[LaraB]

What the fuck are you doing in Australia? You want the best? Then go off to Harvard, Yale or Oxford, you douchebag.

lol at least they didn't do the "i'm going to go do law at harvard so i can come back to australia and be a hot shot barrister the year after graduate coz everyone knows harvard law grads are better" like one nut in here said...

 

[melsc]

Seriously, UWS is one of the lamest uni's in Sydney. Look at the UAI's. No one wants to study there. Except people who didn't get into USyd or UNSW.

You guys keep telling yourselves that employers don't care about which uni you went to. Keep denying it. Keep telling yourselves that you're going to a good uni.

Just because the cutoff is low doesnt mean that everyone in the course got that cutoff remembering that the cutoff is the lowest UAI cutoff that was accepted. So its not fair to say that everyong there got a low UAI, I know of a few this year taking my course with a UAI greater than mid 90s (some who would have got UTS or Macquarie CSP places).

To the person who made this thread, make up your own mind up. Its for you to read through all this and decide whose comments bare any weight and whose are complete rubbish. None of us are employers, none of us have studied at all the univeristies and none of us are without biases.

I am going to UWS this year and I am happy with it. UWS is the only uni that offers my specific double degree and I am just glad to be studying law. Of course I would have loved to have the prestige, it would make things easier especially with law, but in the end if an employer is sensible they will consider that there isnt anything wrong with the uws courses (generally content wise they are pretty much the same) and it are said to be practical. Really if you are willing to put the effort in and do well, you will do well anywhere regardless of facilties, the rest of the cohort etc.

 

[melsc]

Exactly, they're going to UWS because they didn't get into USyd or UNSW law courses. No one in their right mind would put UWS as their first preference. It has a poor academic record, employers don't like it and the UAI's are lower. It's also a shithole.

Actually a few had the choice to go to MAQ or UTS. hell i could have got full few for UNSW and UTS. I was just stating the facts, I was not attacking anyone and I was trying to be as neutral as possible. How is the person who started this thread to make any decision if people post comments without and facts behind them?

 

[erawamai]

I have a friend who does Arts at Sydney, and another who does Journalism at UWS. I seriously doubt that the Arts student is going to have a one up on the other just because she studied at Usyd.

I doubt that. A BA from usyd is highly regarded and can open up a number of areas of employment which include journalism. In any case a BA is often a degree not taken on by people aiming definitivly at a vocation at the time.

As for all this UWS stuff havn't we seen this before? I mean LaraB hardly does anything to alter the common perception of UWS by rebutting Airness's reasoned response like she has a year six education - complete with profanity!

All this 'prestige' is about percetion and image. The way that some UWSers respond to immature barbs and trolling by other people from other universities plays directly into their hands and reflects poorly on UWS. The worse thing is that people will continue to gently troll and certain UWS will continue to swallow the bait and go on poorly structured rants that make them and their their university look bad.

 

[melsc]

Exactly, they're going to UWS because they didn't get into USyd or UNSW law courses. No one in their right mind would put UWS as their first preference. It has a poor academic record, employers don't like it and the UAI's are lower. It's also a shithole.

:wave: I had it as my first, second and final preference, I guess that makes me crazy

In the end all unis have their problems/disadvantages (some more than others) you need to decide which ones matter to you and what kind of impact they are going to have on your life/career. Talk to some people in the industry (whatever it is you may be studying because these arguments always turn out to be about law somehow) if you are really concerned because as I said. Most of useare just providing our opinion, none of us are employers of have studied at all the unis and all of us whether we like it or not are biased in some way, so make sure you don't draw too much from the varried opinions and try and find someone who can give you an honest answer (as hard as that may be).

 

[absolution*]

sup fellas?! :wave: