Dilemma: MACQ or USYD (2 Viewers)

[Path2Felicity]

Hi all,


I'm currently facing a major dilemma and I would really appreciate your opinions and/or advice.

The thing is, Macquarie University offered me a place to do a Bachelor of Social Science with the degree of Bachelor of Laws. At the time I was really excited and I knew I had to accept the offer. So I did. But, then came the second round offers in which the University of Sydney accepted me into the new Bachelor of Political Economic and Social Sciences degree their running this year.

I've always had this really romantic idea of studying at USYD, so I was really happy when they offered me a place. It's one of the best universities in the world and I really believe in the quality of education they offer.

In saying that, I'm not at all ungrateful that Macquarie offered me a place in the combined law program, however, I am disappointed a decision has to be made. I don't want to give up my place in Law, nor do I want to give up my place at USYD. Is there any way I can be at two places at once? I know students can transfer between Universities, but if I don't do well in my first year, then USYD may not be as attainable as it is now.

Is there anyone out there that can offer me some words of wisdom? Or tell me how insane I am for considering giving up my place in Law?


Warm Regards, Path2Felicity.

 

[runnable]

Really, if you want to do Law, MQ is a very good choice.

If you are not that keen on doing Law, and wish to go to USyd, then do that.

It just depends if you want to do Law or not.

 

[rx34]

You can either do political science course and try to transfer to the combined law course. Since it is a new course, there might be less competition in that course to get HDs (though I could be very wrong).

Or you can take up the combined law course at MACQ and try to transfer to combined law UTS or USyd. I don't think you can do 2 courses at once. The decision is up to you, it is possible to do law at universities better than MACQ like UTS and USYD, you just have to work very hard this year.

Transferring is not that hard, you just need the right work ethic and motivation.

 

[theism]

USYD isn't 'one of the best unis in the world'
it's decent though.

'
Sydney has been ranked amongst the top 100 universities in the world by various sources. The UK’s Times Higher Education Supplement World University Rankings published in October 2008 ranked Sydney 17th in the world for Arts and Humanities, 27th for social sciences, 41st for technology, 44th for natural sciences and 27th for biomedicine, confirming its 3rd highest position in terms of its score on the Academic Peer Review (rankings for 5 major subject areas) among Australian Universities.[15].[16][17] The University of Sydney as a whole has been consistently named between 31st and 40th worldwide and 3rd nationwide (following ANU's 16-23rd and Melbourne's 19-27th) from 2004 to 2007[18] in that same publication's league table. In addition, the University of Sydney has also been constantly ranked between 97th and 150th worldwide and 3rd (following ANU's 50-59th and Melbourne's 73-82nd) among Australian Universities from 2004 to 2008 by the Academic Ranking of World Universities [19] published by the Shanghai Jiao Tong University. This prominent position is also confirmed by an annual ranking survey published by the Higher Education Evaluation and Accreditation Council of Taiwan (HEEACT)[20], which uses a rigorous ranking methodology of evaluating the performance on the scientific papers published by the university and has placed The University of Sydney top 100 worldwide and second only to the University of Melbourne within Australia since its publication in 2007.
In a recent survey, Times Higher Education Supplement worldwide ranking of universities released in October 2009, the University of Sydney, tied with the University of Melbourne, was placed 36th overall in the world, securing its top-3 position with ANU and Melbourne among Australian institutions.[21]


from wiki.


as for your question,
law @ macq is really starting to go downhill



take a look at this
http://www.muls.org/files/upload/2010_jan_letter_petition.pdf


from the sounds of things, it seems like you want to be at USYD, and your mind has already decided.

 

[LordPc]

i dont understand.

right now i get the impression that you are in love with usyd rather than the course they are offering you. i also get a bit of a feeling that you are also in love with the prestige of law, like it is some holy status symbol among university students

words of wisdom: figure out why you want to study law and why you want to study social science.

 

[ac91]

As far as I know no you can not take 2 courses at once.
What I have heard of Macquarie law is that it is EXTREMELY good.
You could always transfer into Sydney next year?

 

[taintedfeather]

^ @ lordpc

Agreed. You need to sort out what your passion is, as Combined Law is a course that sees a LOT of students drop out due to their lack of passion, as they often view it as a high status course rather than it invoking any personal interest in it.

It seems you're interested in Social Science, and hence you should look at the better Arts department. Personally, I think USYD and MACQ are the best two, as UNSW and UWS are quite lackluster. UTS is also quite poor. This is how I mainly looked at my Combined Law options.

I ended up giving up UNSW and UTS combined laws even though they have a higher ATAR cutoff due to the fact that I'm doing an Arts degree with Law, and they simply didn't have the courses I liked.

I had a set goal of doing an Arts/Law degree, and a mark on a piece of paper, or an offer wasn't going to change that.

It's no good feeling that at the end of 5 years of a taxing Combined Law degree at Macquarie that you didn't even want to do the course. Check the courses offered in both degrees, and see which one you, truthfully like more. If you're honest with yourself, you'll know what you wanna do, and an offer for a different 'better' course at a 'better' uni like USYD, Oxford or even Harvard won't change your mind.

it is possible to do law at universities better than MACQ like UTS and USYD

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't UTS the worst law school? It was ranked last, last year, and I'm sure the year before that too.
I think it's because they were forced to open a law course due to demand (city area, and USYD law was far too high) rather than having the staff or resources to do so.

UTS is also ranked lower than Macq in general.

 

[X2RADialbomber]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't UTS the worst law school? It was ranked last, last year, and I'm sure the year before that too.
I think it's because they were forced to open a law course due to demand (city area, and USYD law was far too high) rather than having the staff or resources to do so.

UTS is also ranked lower than Macq in general.

Where do you get your statistics from???

 

[rx34]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't UTS the worst law school? It was ranked last, last year, and I'm sure the year before that too.
I think it's because they were forced to open a law course due to demand (city area, and USYD law was far too high) rather than having the staff or resources to do so.

UTS is also ranked lower than Macq in general.

Hmmm, many people pick their law schools in this order
USYD/UNSW--> UTS --> MACQ --> UWS

I have no access to actual stats on whether UTS is a good law school but it seems to be a social norm on BoS that transferrees want to move from UWS/MACQ to UTS. Also UTS has a higher cutoff than the UWS/MACQ which indicates more people want to go there. Lots of ATAR 98+ folks who missed out on USYD/UNSW usually go to UTS as their 2nd preference.

So I'm not completely sure whether MACQ is better than UTS but it seems UTS is more sought after.

 

[taintedfeather]

^ @ X2RADialbombe

I was quite shocked too when I read about them. Here's the Top 12 Universities:

2009 THES-QS Top World 200 Ranking Times Higher Education Supplement University Rankings

1. Australian National University
2. University of Sydney
3. University of Melbourne
4. University of Queensland
5. Monash University
6. UNSW
7. University of Adelaide
8. University of Western Australia
9. Macquarie University <- fell from 7th place (I think due to the decision to revamp all courses into 4 faculties)
10. RMIT
11. University of Technology Sydney <- moved up from 16th place.
12. La Trobe University

In terms of Law Schools, UTS ranked 12th...out of the 12 Law schools on the rankings. Like I said, I think it's more supply/demand rather than teaching quality.

 

[taintedfeather]

^ @ rx34

I thought it was great Uni as well, and had the same sentiment, but I think the choice to go there is too focused on location and ATAR cutoff - most people don't check the actual stats, and assume that its courses are a direct correlation with its high ATAR cutoff, when in truth, is not.

 

[X2RADialbomber]

Yeah, that is weird.

To the OP: I am starting BPESS this year with the intention to do graduate law at either UTS or Sydney. The BPESS course looks awesome, but it can also be a bit restrictive, so if you don't like political economy or any of the other core subject areas, then don't do it. Macquarie Social Science is broad in the variety of subjects areas you can do. If I got the ATAR for Macquarie Law, I would definitely be there because I absolutely love law and politics. In the end, do what you love. I would advise against going to a uni because it is 'prestigious' because you won't last long there at all.

 

[Path2Felicity]

Thank you all very much for your feedback.

Runnable, I do want to study law, but knowing that there is an option of also combining law at USYD, makes me want to take the offer from them and not Macquarie. USYD is also closer to home and because it is one of the better Universities, the decision becomes difficult.

Transferring is not that hard, you just need the right work ethic and motivation.

I'd love to take up the offer at MACQ and then transfer, but I can't guarantee a distinction or above and that's what makes me a little nervous.

i dont understand.

right now i get the impression that you are in love with usyd rather than the course they are offering you. i also get a bit of a feeling that you are also in love with the prestige of law, like it is some holy status symbol among university students

words of wisdom: figure out why you want to study law and why you want to study social science.

I am extremely interested in the course USYD is offering, the subjects seem interesting, especially during the second year and I like the paths it can lead down in terms of career choices. I also really want to study social science and having the option of studying it at USYD, is really, the cherry on top of the cake. So my apologies if I've giving you the wrong impression.

I also do believe that Law and Social Science go really well together and having that extra knowledge will help me in the future, whilst I'm out there making some sort of a change for the better. I don't want to do Law to sit in a high rise chair and watch my bank account grow, I'd like to use my degree for bigger and better things. I know this might sound overly ambitious, but it's what I want to do.

Any other opinions and/or advice is more than welcome.

 

[rx34]

I don't want to do Law to sit in a high rise chair and watch my bank account grow, I'd like to use my degree for bigger and better things. I know this might sound overly ambitious, but it's what I want to do.

Any other opinions and/or advice is more than welcome.

Wow this seems like a really tough decision. Remember pro bono law is always an option. If I were you, I would go to USyd, do the political science degree and get decent marks. Then as what X2RADialbomber said, do postgrad law. It's only one extra year which might be good for you to let you figure which career path you wish to take.

When do you have to decide which course to take?

 

[KarmaKitten]

Wow this seems like a really tough decision. Remember pro bono law is always an option. If I were you, I would go to USyd, do the political science degree and get decent marks. Then as what X2RADialbomber said, do postgrad law. It's only one extra year which might be good for you to let you figure which career path you wish to take.

When do you have to decide which course to take?

Postgrad law one year?

Graduate Law is three years. Are you referring to specialist Master Law degrees which are a year? Doing a Master's Law degrees does not make you qualified to practice law. Also just getting 'decent marks' is not going to guarantee you a place in Graduate Law at USYD. It is incredibly competitive.

Personally, I think its silly to waste a chance into a combined Law degree because of some romantic notion of Sydney Uni.

The bachelor of political economy and social sciences, or whatever stupid name they have given it, is stupid. You might as well do a straight arts degree, honestly.

 

[rx34]

Postgrad law one year?

I meant taking the social science degree and post grad law would just take one extra year compared to the combined undergrad degree.

The bachelor of political economy and social sciences, or whatever stupid name they have given it, is stupid. You might as well do a straight arts degree, honestly

To each his own, I mean it's what the OP would do at USyd.

 

[KarmaKitten]

I meant taking the social science degree and post grad law would just take one extra year compared to the combined undergrad degree.

To each his own, I mean it's what the OP would do at USyd.

No it would not. Graduate Law is THREE years.

Postgraduate Law as in Master's specialist Law degrees are indeed one years but they do NOT mean you can practice Law.

If the OP wants to do an undergraduate and then attempt to enrol in a law degree with the intention of becoming a lawyer, she/he would need to apply for Graduate Law which is three years. There is no quickie way of doing law.

Graduate LAW

 

[rx34]

No it would not. Graduate Law is THREE years.

Postgraduate Law as in Master's specialist Law degrees are indeed one years but they do NOT mean you can practice Law.

If the OP wants to do an undergraduate and then attempt to enrol in a law degree with the intention of becoming a lawyer, she/he would need to apply for Graduate Law which is three years. There is no quickie way of doing law.

Graduate LAW

I meant if he did arts/law (combined degree), it would take 5 years. But if he takes social science first (3 years) and then apply for grad law (another 3 years), in total it would be 6 years.

So the graduate law option would take one extra year. I never mentioned masters.

 

[KarmaKitten]

I meant if he did arts/law (combined degree), it would take 5 years. But if he takes social science first (3 years) and then apply for grad law (another 3 years), in total it would be 6 years.

So the graduate law option would take one extra year. I never mentioned masters.

Oooooooooh right. Silly me, I read that all wrong.

Still though, 5 years for a degree that you already have an offer in, or trying to get into graduate law later, which isn't guaranteed. I'd do the law at MQ, then try to transfer into USYD combined law. Even if you don't get in, you'd still have your law degree from MQ.

Then again, people love USYD too much.

 

[rx34]

.

Then again, people love USYD too much.

Lol, what's there not to love With its beautiful sandstone buildings and incredibly slack admin that take forever to reply to an email, I'm definitely in! USyd is really good for artsy subjects apparently.

But yeah, I agree with ya, taking the MACQ option provides a safety net. I would hate to be in this position.