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pwoh

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Thinking of writing a complaint letter. Can you guys contribute some good points? :D Here goes....*rant*

I wish to lodge a complaint on the efficiency of the DET Portal's whitelisting filter system.
The filtration is aggressive and deters many students from completing their school work.
The system simply isn't effective; I understand the need for a filtration system to protect students, but why go so far as to implement a whitelist?

The whitelist only allows websites approved by the DET; in theory this is a good thing but it does not work as very few sites are allowed - they are added at a slow rate to the list. Often a student requires information from websites which are not yet on the whitelist, yet they will not add it to the whitelist as the process will take weeks, and by then their assignment or work will have already been long overdue. And often the websites that they require are not worth the effort of submitting it to the whitelist anyway; it may only contain a small amount of information, and it may not even be approved if it is a "personal website" which contains some useful information.

The internet is a medium through which information is rapidly updated and changed - but the whitelist system changes this; new information will take weeks to process, by then it may already be irrelevant.

At our school, students are rarely able to complete their internet research at school - most sites are blocked (including relevant and educational sites) so they end up wasting time and completing it at home instead. Sometimes a teacher will plan a lesson which will involve several useful websites - most of which will be blocked and the lesson ends up failing - by the time all of the websites are approved, we will have already finished the topic, so what is the point?

Even the blacklist is quite inefficient (the whitelist takes it too far). For work related to computing studies, help for it is difficult as many sites are blocked as they are "personal sites", "bulletin/forum sites" or "IT sites". There is no point in spending millions of dollars of taxpayer's money on an internet service with an agressive filtering system (again paid by taxpayers) which deter students from completing work and learning. Even websites related to biology are blocked, simply because they contain keywords such as "sexual reproduction".

Not only does the system deter student (and teacher) research, it also slows down the connection to the internet considerably. Often the connection is down and when it is not it is extremely slow and makes it difficult to complete work.

The current system is extremely inefficient and it is a deterrent to students learning. It only disadvantages students who actually use the DET provided internet to learn; students with the intent of accessing inappropriate resources will continue to do so anyway. In fact, it is known that some diligent students have asked these students about filter circumvention methods so they can actually complete their work. I am strongly against any system that forces diligent students to resort to such measures.

I know parents want their children to be safe - but the parents who want more aggressive filtering often do not understand how these filters work and what they will do. An aggressive whitelist will indeed block most inappropriate material; but is it necessary? It deters students from learning. And students with the intent of accessing inappropriate content will do so anyway, despite any measures put in place to prevent them from doing so. These students are a minority, but the majority who have the intent of learning are affected. And as for risks of kidnapping and paedophilia, I think that parents talking to their children on these issues are far more effective than an aggressive whitelist which blocks almost everything. In fact, children are still exposed to risks out of school - any amount of filtering whether at home or at school does not efficiently prevent this. There are many forms of communication that criminals can use - children should be informed of risks instead of having filters which will essentially block everything but leave the children oblivious. This is not preparation for the "real world".

I propose that the system is improved by reverting it back to a blacklist - there are already many efficient blacklists available that do not block websites purely on a basis of keywords. Another solution would be not to have filtering at
DET level, but instead let individual schools decide which filtering level is best for them - this allows for primary schools, secondary schools and TAFE colleges to all have specialised filtering based on individual needs. This would be advantageous as it allows for schools to change filtering on a needs basis - for example for law classes which require content on cases involving rape or murder and IT classes which require IT content. Individual filtering would also be possible so that students found deliberately accessing inappropriate material can have privileges stripped.

As a student and a future taxpayer, I strongly recommend that the current DET filtering system is scrapped in favour of something more efficient that will allow all students to learn using maximised resources.
NB: My English/essay skills aren't the best. Plus I'm half asleep. =P
So feel free to criticise, etc.
 

midst

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Eh, neither are mine and I'm half asleep too, so no criticisms from me. I know what, while you're complaining about the whitelist, mention that "crap" is not an offensive word (unless you're an absolute prude, I like to think that most people aren't, however someone will no doubt prove otherwise) and should be able to be used in emails through the DET system. Or not.. that might weaken your argument somewhat.
 

pwoh

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midst said:
Eh, neither are mine and I'm half asleep too, so no criticisms from me. I know what, while you're complaining about the whitelist, mention that "crap" is not an offensive word (unless you're an absolute prude, I like to think that most people aren't, however someone will no doubt prove otherwise) and should be able to be used in emails through the DET system. Or not.. that might weaken your argument somewhat.
:p

The offensiveness of "crap" is subjective you know...judging from their policies, they are prudes.

My friend sends an email - something about "crap! have you done ___ question 2?"That email never got through...some weeks later she got a message saying that "offensive language" had been detected. :rolleyes: She never did get the answer to question 2. So much for the DET email being of educational assistance!
 

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(the following is just my personal opinion of the matter)

hahaha..

the DET is just plain ****ing corrupt (spending money on making education for government school students worse, (though somehow I don't think the ICAC would consider it corrupt)), and their only goal is to stop government school students from learning through the internet.[1]

I wish that one persons complaint would help and make a difference and I encourage you to send that letter. However I very much doubt it will make a difference.

I agree with what you said there, and I hope you succeed. I wonder what else could be done to fix this terrible state things are in??

[1] Instead of spending money restricting the web sites available, that money could by used for paying for the bandwidth chewed up by all those blocked sites (well the ones that are appropriate for high school kids.).
 
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pwoh

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me121 said:
(the following is just my personal opinion of the matter)

hahaha..

the DET is just plain ****ing corrupt (spending money on making education for government school students worse, (though somehow I don't think the ICAC would consider it corrupt)), and their only goal is to stop government school students from learning through the internet.[1]

I wish that one persons complaint would help and make a difference and I encourage you to send that letter. However I very much doubt it will make a difference.

I agree with what you said there, and I hope you succeed. I wonder what else could be done to fix this terrible state things are in??

[1] Instead of spending money restricting the web sites available, that money could by used for paying for the bandwidth chewed up by all those blocked sites (well the ones that are appropriate for high school kids.).
Agreed! But if we get more complaints, hopefully they'll do something about. Although I doubt it. Doesn't hurt to try though.

How about anyone who agrees sends in complaints as well?
 

me121

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pwoh said:
How about anyone who agrees sends in complaints as well?
I was thinking.. isn't this something that SRC's & P&C assoc's, etc. would by interested in doing? I mean that's what the SRC is for right? Dealing with the issues that students feel are most important that need addressing...
 

Roga

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That's a pretty good argument and I agree with what you guys are saying. But for some of us it'll be of no use as we have/ going to finish school. But maybe for future students, the DET may be more leniant.
 

pwoh

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me121 said:
I was thinking.. isn't this something that SRC's & P&C assoc's, etc. would by interested in doing? I mean that's what the SRC is for right? Dealing with the issues that students feel are most important that need addressing...
Yeah, that could help - I might forward the letter to one of the SRC members later.

Roga said:
That's a pretty good argument and I agree with what you guys are saying. But for some of us it'll be of no use as we have/ going to finish school. But maybe for future students, the DET may be more leniant.
It might help our year, if they bother to do anything within two years. :) And future students would benefit if they were to change anything...

Rebekkie said:
ooks good but didn't get the entire way through tbh. maybe try and get some teachers to add weight to the argument in how it makes research difficult? (esp thinking of reproduction in bio here :p)
Teachers...I'd prefer not to bother them with this sort of thing. :p Do you have the time to write anything? I could write it myself, but I'm not too sure how to strengthen the argument with research. Can't think of any examples at the moment...
 

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the filter is so incredibly crap. it surprises me every day that the IT people haven't 'slipped' and re routed the server through a different ISP... or 'slipped' and let me re rout the server while they were out for lunch... or slipped and put a axe through the server simply to put us out of our missery
 

madrooster

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Our principal's portrait (photo) which she uses for various things (school newsletter etc.) is on the photographer's website.. something to that tune.

However, that site is blocked as pornographic material! There is no pornography on the site at all. They blocked it based on its name.

Keep in mind too, Carole Knott your principal can see who's been browsing what sites using her DET Portal login (the PNI applet, PNI stands for Principal's Network Information).

The top site currently at quite a few schools is stoptazmo.com - it's a manga site and isn't blocked when it really should be under the DET's filtering classifications. Again, another example of why it is crap and doesn't do its job.

Here's another example of the filter not working.... try typing in "weapons" as your google search, just the word, no inverted commas. You'll find it's blocked as the category "Weapons". Then try searching for "weapon", again no inverted commas. Searching for "weapon" is allowed - so we're allowed one weapon and no more than one weapon!

To top that off, the DET also has 100Mbps fibreoptic connections to quite a number of Sydney metro schools. Your school from memory is one of them. But why provision so much bandwidth which is going to waste...
 

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Alright im on the same boat as you guys, trying to get access to websites which are blocked by DET Portals whitelist. I just found out that they have just recently started using whitelists, becasue everything was coming up as "uncategorised". Also i think the idea of blocking "technical/business" is absurd and that the DET Portal should rot in hell, for doing that. I believe that the DET is using whitelists is to pre-ban anonymiser sites (commonly refered to as proxies).

My theory is that the use of a VPS will allow us to circumvent these blocks (not tested). A VPS (Virtual Private Server) is basically another computer. In order to access a VPS, you must first rent one from a VPS provider, then with the use of Remote Desktop Connection (Windows), you should be able to login to your VPS, and because your VPS is using another ISP, you should be able to circumvent these blocks.

A sure-fire method to circumvent these blocks is obviously with the use of a teachers account (tested I have done it myself), although the use of a teachers account will not be using the whitelist ban system, quite a number of sites are still blocked (annonymisers, warez, filehosts, etc.). To gain access to a teachers account, you must know the username and password (obviously). All students and staff on the DET Portal have access to password recovery questions (Hint: Use a teachers account from a past school, and also make sure they dont go online often). Further steps needed but will not be provided.
 

pwoh

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LtPhoenix said:
Alright im on the same boat as you guys, trying to get access to websites which are blocked by DET Portals whitelist. I just found out that they have just recently started using whitelists, becasue everything was coming up as "uncategorised". Also i think the idea of blocking "technical/business" is absurd and that the DET Portal should rot in hell, for doing that. I believe that the DET is using whitelists is to pre-ban anonymiser sites (commonly refered to as proxies).

My theory is that the use of a VPS will allow us to circumvent these blocks (not tested). A VPS (Virtual Private Server) is basically another computer. In order to access a VPS, you must first rent one from a VPS provider, then with the use of Remote Desktop Connection (Windows), you should be able to login to your VPS, and because your VPS is using another ISP, you should be able to circumvent these blocks.

A sure-fire method to circumvent these blocks is obviously with the use of a teachers account (tested I have done it myself), although the use of a teachers account will not be using the whitelist ban system, quite a number of sites are still blocked (annonymisers, warez, filehosts, etc.). To gain access to a teachers account, you must know the username and password (obviously). All students and staff on the DET Portal have access to password recovery questions (Hint: Use a teachers account from a past school, and also make sure they dont go online often). Further steps needed but will not be provided.
Well, you sure know a lot ;D I'd rather they have them not block these sites in the first place - VPS is expensive and I'd rather not resort to hacking teacher's accounts. :s

Rebekkie said:
with research i was suggesting that it was difficult to research for certain subject. such as with biology, reproduction is difficult to research. or for a school debate i had a while ago about the influence of pornography, could not research at school etc.

sure i'll help you write some stuff... after the hsc
Aw, thanks :D Good luck!
 

me121

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LtPhoenix said:
My theory is that the use of a VPS will allow us to circumvent these blocks (not tested). A VPS (Virtual Private Server) is basically another computer. In order to access a VPS, you must first rent one from a VPS provider, then with the use of Remote Desktop Connection (Windows), you should be able to login to your VPS, and because your VPS is using another ISP, you should be able to circumvent these blocks.
But wouldn't ip's be filtered the same way that http urls are, if the protocol has not been blocked already?
 
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ASNSWR127

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me121 said:
I was thinking.. isn't this something that SRC's & P&C assoc's, etc. would by interested in doing? I mean that's what the SRC is for right? Dealing with the issues that students feel are most important that need addressing...
haha SRC...
 

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@ pwoh: The SRC are powerless against the DET ITD - don't bother. It will be a complete utter waste of time.

Have you tried asking Ms. Aspin to try and push the issue up the chain for you (to the DET)? Since she is the computer co-ordinator at your school she may have better luck.

Otherwise I could see if I can put you in contact with someone useful in the DET ITD (last resort).

@ me121 & LtPhoenix: the RDP protocol is firewalled at the DET WAN core. As is VNC etc.

The firewalling works by a whitelist system where anything inside the DET WAN is allowed, anything outside of the WAN ie. the internet, is blocked.

There goes your chances of using a VPS to get around it.

@ LtPhoenix: There has been a bit of discussion in the DET forums about students gaining access to staff accounts. Lets say the following scenario...

Teacher A has a recovery question of "favourite holiday destination?". Student B being smart goes to Teacher A casually and during a casual conversation about holidays and places to go... asks "what's your favourite holiday place?".

Student B then has the answer to the recovery question and resets Teacher A's password.

It is that easy, and I have seen it happen many many times.
 

pwoh

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madrooster said:
@ pwoh: The SRC are powerless against the DET ITD - don't bother. It will be a complete utter waste of time.

Have you tried asking Ms. Aspin to try and push the issue up the chain for you (to the DET)? Since she is the computer co-ordinator at your school she may have better luck.

Otherwise I could see if I can put you in contact with someone useful in the DET ITD (last resort).
You seem to know the staff pretty well there. Uhm, I guess I could pull up the courage and ask her. Maybe. :p Contacting their "public liason officer" wouldn't help, would it? It was the only general contact I could find on their website...

There has been a bit of discussion in the DET forums about students gaining access to staff accounts. Lets say the following scenario...
Some teachers have such obvious questions that they require no approaching the teacher at all...=O And what DET forums?
 

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Quite glad my Dad is a teacher and as such has a DET account. It enables me view deviantart whenever I need to.

Whitelist < Everything.
 

madrooster

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pwoh said:
You seem to know the staff pretty well there. Uhm, I guess I could pull up the courage and ask her. Maybe. :p Contacting their "public liason officer" wouldn't help, would it? It was the only general contact I could find on their website...


Some teachers have such obvious questions that they require no approaching the teacher at all...=O And what DET forums?
Public liaison officers are typically what you call the person who greets you at the door. In other words, they won't be able to help you too far.

General contacts are often the most useless for specific and yet technical issues associated with what you're trying to raise.

@ everyone else: DET school staff accounts have more filtering applied than TAFE staff and students. If you can tack down a TAFE account, bingo for you. They can access Hotmail and the alikes and many other things.
 
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supercalamari

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madrooster said:
@ everyone else: DET staff accounts have more filtering applied than TAFE staff and students. If you can tack down a TAFE account, bingo for you. They can access Hotmail and the alikes and many other things.
How do you know that? I'm not doubting it, just wondering.
 

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I just do - try it if you can get a hold of such an account.
 

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