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Debunking myths of elite learning (2 Viewers)

Phanatical

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Mambomeg said:
How can u say that when the majority of students at selective schools etc come from "non-white beckgrounds". stop your bitching about being discriminated against. You are in your course at uni arent u? u are doing what u want, at one of the best uni's in Australia, one of the best countries in the world, and all u want to do is bitch about how unfair everything is? Well, heres the thing: Life is unfair! deal with it and think about how lucky you actually are!
When was the last time you got a job without meeting your employer face to face? Selective Schools admissions work because the people who admit students do so on the basis of test data and not whether you're photogenic.

Why do I raise these points? I'm concerned that the society my children will grow up in will be prejudiced against them. Racism and Sexism are far too prevalent in our society, and if we don't stand up against them, they will be even More prevalent in 20 years time. Standing up for rights isn't something to be criticised, it's something to be congratulated.

I'm not bitter about not getting elected. Well, I am, but if I were elected, I'd be saying exactly the same things I am now (and then being ignored because I still wouldn't hold the balance of power). Sure, the SRC elections were full of shit, but I was criticising it long before running entered my mind. It is not just our right, but our DUTY to criticise our representatives when they do us wrong.

We aren't allowed a men's room or gender officer. The Union and the SRC refuse to fund it.
 

clairegirl

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note: My replys are in caps... im not shouting just showing the distinction between what you said and what im saying


At Sydney University, there is a women's room and several paid women's officers. Lots have asked why there is no men's society or men's space - and the Official answer of the SRC and the Union is that men are not a disadvantaged group in society, and there is no justification for the expense. Believe me, groups lead by people such as myself have tried unsuccessfully to introduce the same resources to USYD as the women have, but they keep getting shot down by our feminist SRC and Union.

LOL COME TO MACQUARIE, YOU CAN START ANY CLUB YOU WANT AND THEY GIVE YOU LIKE 700 BUCKS A YEAR... I THINK YOU SHOULD START OFF SMALL LIKE A CLUB AND THEN BUILD ON IT,THATS HOW THE WOMEN DID IT
"Official answer of the SRC and the Union is that men are not a disadvantaged group in society, and there is no justification for the expense" MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASK THEM WHY, INSTEAD OF JUST ASSUMING THEY'RE SHOOTING YOU DOWN FOR NO REASON

Quotas for women don't help all women. They help white women. Hence, "Stupid White Men" - because they don't give a shit about non-white women, or non-white men for that matter. This is despite the fact that the glass ceiling for asian men is lower than that for white women in this society. It hardly seems fair to me.

BUT THATS THE SAME AS ALL POLICIES... THEY DON'T HELP ALL THE TARGETED POPULATION

Young males ARE being disadvantaged in the workforce, especially in certain (higher-paying, higher-powered) industries. Disadvantaged more than women, perhaps, perhaps not, but they face disadvantages all the same. Both men and women can face disadvantages, because the workforce is not just one industry, but many industries, which many in society perceive some to be more female-friendly, some more male-friendly. We cannot just group men and women by gender.

I AGREE WITH THE SECOND HALF HOW "Both men and women can face disadvantages because the workforce is not just one industry but many industries, which in society percieve some to be more female friendly, some more male-friendly. BUT THIS? "We cannot just group men and women by gender" OF COURSE WE CAN, WE WOULD BE STUPID NOT TO TAKE GENDER INTO ACCOUNT....

This is why I haven't asked for a separate Men's officer, but I've asked for the women's officer to be replaced by a Gender Issues Officer.

THAT SOUNDS GOOD ACTUALLY, HOWEVER I THINK IF YOU ASKED FOR A SEPERATE MEN'S OFFICER IT WOULD BE BETTER (BETTER SPECIALISATION)...... IF YOU ASK WHAT A WOMEN'S OFFICER, ADMINISTRATOR OF WOMEN'S SPACE DOES... IT'S ORGANISING, YOGA CLASSES, DANCE CLASSES, SEWING CLASSES, COOKING, MOVIE NIGHTS, SELF DEFENCE CLASSES PLUS IT OFFERS COUNCELLING TO WOMEN PROVIDED BY COUNCILLERS SPECIALISING IN WOMEN'S ISSUES...IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SITTING AROUND BITCHING ABOUT MEN ....

IF THERE WAS A GENDERS ISSUES OFFICER, I DOUBT IT WOULD REACH WOMEN OR MEN IN THE SAME LIGHT IF IT WERE DONE SEPERATELY
 

Phanatical

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Well, that I haven't asked for a separate Men's officer is actually a fallacy on my part. I had in fact raised the issue of a separate Men's officer in late 2003/early 2004, and I was continually shot down on Ideological reasons. These people know that we want a Men's Officer - but they won't give us one because they disagree with the idea that Men need their own officer/space.
 

clairegirl

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Lexicographer said:
I'm not taking a side on this point, but I must say that from speaking to students who have taken the subject (its UTS equivalent) he's spot on with that evaluation.
and that validates the whole course being "glorified subject not worth studying?"... when people bring in "personal experience" like you did just there, it discredits his point even further
 

clairegirl

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Not-That-Bright said:
Why is it you feel someone needs to study the entire course to make an informed opinion?
no but i just see his arguments as being covered and addressed in womens and aboriginals studies...
 

clairegirl

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Not-That-Bright said:
Why is it you feel someone needs to study the entire course to make an informed opinion?
no but i just see his arguments as being covered and addressed in womens and aboriginals studies...

someone who has the opinion (phanitical) does raise raise questions but they've been raised before in literature (which is covered in womens and aboriginal studies) and someone who's researched the particular field is better informed than someone who reads a few articles is much more credible.
 

Phanatical

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Women's studies promote things like the SCUM Manifesto and the Female Eunuch as feminist doctrine. Certainly, many feminists I know support the material in the SCUM Manifesto, written by Valerie Solanas in 1967 or thereabouts - it was the year before she shot and wounded Andy Warhol.

Why would I want to be forced to speak highly of propaganda like the SCUM Manifesto? That's what Women's studies expect - for students to come out more feminist - and to make them more feminist, they must support feminist doctrine.
 

Phanatical

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In fact, let's post the beginning of the SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men) Manifesto.



Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex.

It is now technically feasible to reproduce without the aid of males (or, for that matter, females) and to produce only females. We must begin immediately to do so. Retaining the male has not even the dubious purpose of reproduction. The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples.

The male is completely egocentric, trapped inside himself, incapable of empathizing or identifying with others, or love, friendship, affection of tenderness. He is a completely isolated unit, incapable of rapport with anyone. His responses are entirely visceral, not cerebral; his intelligence is a mere tool in the services of his drives and needs; he is incapable of mental passion, mental interaction; he can't relate to anything other than his own physical sensations. He is a half-dead, unresponsive lump, incapable of giving or receiving pleasure or happiness; consequently, he is at best an utter bore, an inoffensive blob, since only those capable of absorption in others can be charming. He is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than the apes because, unlike the apes, he is capable of a large array of negative feelings -- hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, doubt -- and moreover, he is aware of what he is and what he isn't.

Although completely physical, the male is unfit even for stud service. Even assuming mechanical proficiency, which few men have, he is, first of all, incapable of zestfully, lustfully, tearing off a piece, but instead is eaten up with guilt, shame, fear and insecurity, feelings rooted in male nature, which the most enlightened training can only minimize; second, the physical feeling he attains is next to nothing; and third, he is not empathizing with his partner, but is obsessed with how he's doing, turning in an A performance, doing a good plumbing job. To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo. It's often said that men use women. Use them for what? Surely not pleasure.

Eaten up with guilt, shame, fears and insecurities and obtaining, if he's lucky, a barely perceptible physical feeling, the male is, nonetheless, obsessed with screwing; he'll swim through a river of snot, wade nostril-deep through a mile of vomit, if he thinks there'll be a friendly pussy awaiting him. He'll screw a woman he despises, any snaggle-toothed hag, and furthermore, pay for the opportunity. Why? Relieving physical tension isn't the answer, as masturbation suffices for that. It's not ego satisfaction; that doesn't explain screwing corpses and babies.

Completely egocentric, unable to relate, empathize or identify, and filled with a vast, pervasive, diffuse sexuality, the male is pyschically passive. He hates his passivity, so he projects it onto women, defines the make as active, then sets out to prove that he is (`prove that he is a Man'). His main means of attempting to prove it is screwing (Big Man with a Big Dick tearing off a Big Piece). Since he's attempting to prove an error, he must `prove' it again and again. Screwing, then, is a desperate compulsive, attempt to prove he's not passive, not a woman; but he is passive and does want to be a woman.
 

clairegirl

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Phanatical said:
Well, that I haven't asked for a separate Men's officer is actually a fallacy on my part. I had in fact raised the issue of a separate Men's officer in late 2003/early 2004, and I was continually shot down on Ideological reasons. These people know that we want a Men's Officer - but they won't give us one because they disagree with the idea that Men need their own officer/space.

Keep fighting for it if you truly believe there should be a men's officer, i think there should be too and you guys can have movie nights, car nights, surfing days, kickboxing classes and other "guyish type stuff" but getting rid of women quotas! thats offensive.... i think women quotas will continue to exists until they're no longer needed.
 

Phanatical

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If we have women Quotas and affirmative action, why shouldn't at least 30% of the workforce be asian then? Why shouldn't we have quotas for short people, goths, vegetarians, vegans? They're all minority groups who are disadvantaged in the workplace. Why no affirmative action for them?
 

clairegirl

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Phanatical said:
In fact, let's post the beginning of the SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men) Manifesto.



Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex.

It is now technically feasible to reproduce without the aid of males (or, for that matter, females) and to produce only females. We must begin immediately to do so. Retaining the male has not even the dubious purpose of reproduction. The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples.

The male is completely egocentric, trapped inside himself, incapable of empathizing or identifying with others, or love, friendship, affection of tenderness. He is a completely isolated unit, incapable of rapport with anyone. His responses are entirely visceral, not cerebral; his intelligence is a mere tool in the services of his drives and needs; he is incapable of mental passion, mental interaction; he can't relate to anything other than his own physical sensations. He is a half-dead, unresponsive lump, incapable of giving or receiving pleasure or happiness; consequently, he is at best an utter bore, an inoffensive blob, since only those capable of absorption in others can be charming. He is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than the apes because, unlike the apes, he is capable of a large array of negative feelings -- hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, doubt -- and moreover, he is aware of what he is and what he isn't.

Although completely physical, the male is unfit even for stud service. Even assuming mechanical proficiency, which few men have, he is, first of all, incapable of zestfully, lustfully, tearing off a piece, but instead is eaten up with guilt, shame, fear and insecurity, feelings rooted in male nature, which the most enlightened training can only minimize; second, the physical feeling he attains is next to nothing; and third, he is not empathizing with his partner, but is obsessed with how he's doing, turning in an A performance, doing a good plumbing job. To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo. It's often said that men use women. Use them for what? Surely not pleasure.

Eaten up with guilt, shame, fears and insecurities and obtaining, if he's lucky, a barely perceptible physical feeling, the male is, nonetheless, obsessed with screwing; he'll swim through a river of snot, wade nostril-deep through a mile of vomit, if he thinks there'll be a friendly pussy awaiting him. He'll screw a woman he despises, any snaggle-toothed hag, and furthermore, pay for the opportunity. Why? Relieving physical tension isn't the answer, as masturbation suffices for that. It's not ego satisfaction; that doesn't explain screwing corpses and babies.

Completely egocentric, unable to relate, empathize or identify, and filled with a vast, pervasive, diffuse sexuality, the male is pyschically passive. He hates his passivity, so he projects it onto women, defines the make as active, then sets out to prove that he is (`prove that he is a Man'). His main means of attempting to prove it is screwing (Big Man with a Big Dick tearing off a Big Piece). Since he's attempting to prove an error, he must `prove' it again and again. Screwing, then, is a desperate compulsive, attempt to prove he's not passive, not a woman; but he is passive and does want to be a woman.
I didn't even bother to read all of that, it looks like you just copy pasted...urrm as you know that was written in 1967... authors are binded by their own contextual circumstances is all im going to say... there is a modernized view of feminism btw... your definition of feminism is how it was portrayed, endorsed, promoted back in the 1960's.... the meaning of feminism has changed, we're not all unshaven, big lesbians wanting to burn our bras and chant that we hate men.... LOL
 

clairegirl

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Phanatical said:
If we have women Quotas and affirmative action, why shouldn't at least 30% of the workforce be asian then? Why shouldn't we have quotas for short people, goths, vegetarians, vegans? They're all minority groups who are disadvantaged in the workplace. Why no affirmative action for them?

women are not a minority
*sigh*
 

clairegirl

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Phanatical said:
Women's studies promote things like the SCUM Manifesto and the Female Eunuch as feminist doctrine. Certainly, many feminists I know support the material in the SCUM Manifesto, written by Valerie Solanas in 1967 or thereabouts - it was the year before she shot and wounded Andy Warhol.

Why would I want to be forced to speak highly of propaganda like the SCUM Manifesto? That's what Women's studies expect - for students to come out more feminist - and to make them more feminist, they must support feminist doctrine.
lol you have no idea about the content of women's studies
 

Phanatical

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The SCUM Manifesto, and many other such evil texts, is required reading in most women's studies courses - including (I may be mistaken) those at the University of Sydney.
 

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Phanatical said:
If we have women Quotas and affirmative action, why shouldn't at least 30% of the workforce be asian then? Why shouldn't we have quotas for short people, goths, vegetarians, vegans? They're all minority groups who are disadvantaged in the workplace. Why no affirmative action for them?
Short people aside (is that really a minority group?), the other examples you provide are all lifestyle choices. Being born as a female, into a socially and historically constructed circumstance of 'disadvatage' isn't a choice.
 

Phanatical

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What about Asians? They're a group in society who are greatly discriminated against. Being an Asian in a Western society IS a choice, but it's not one we should have to make. I was born here, and while I have the choice to leave, why should I?
 

clairegirl

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Phanatical said:
The SCUM Manifesto, and many other such evil texts, is required reading in most women's studies courses - including (I may be mistaken) those at the University of Sydney.
and im sure your not taught to BELIEVE in this crap....i think you were supposed to walk away with the historical context and the reasons why it was written,how it came about blah blah etc.....and be critical about it, not believe in it
 

Phanatical

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clairegirl said:
I didn't even bother to read all of that, it looks like you just copy pasted...urrm as you know that was written in 1967... authors are binded by their own contextual circumstances is all im going to say... there is a modernized view of feminism btw... your definition of feminism is how it was portrayed, endorsed, promoted back in the 1960's.... the meaning of feminism has changed, we're not all unshaven, big lesbians wanting to burn our bras and chant that we hate men.... LOL
Let's quote some Modern feminists, shall we.

Elizabeth Fee: "Knowledge was created as an act of aggression"

Linda Gardiner: "We might begin to question the import of Descartes’ stress on logic and mathematics as the ideal types of rationality"

Gloria Steinem: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"

Where feminism of old was about attaining equal rights for women, feminism of today is all about finding any excuse to rid the world of men. According to feminism, "truth is a cynical ploy designed for women to submit to male hegemony" (Roberts).
 

clairegirl

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Phanatical said:
What about Asians? They're a group in society who are greatly discriminated against. Being an Asian in a Western society IS a choice, but it's not one we should have to make. I was born here, and while I have the choice to leave, why should I?
i think she was referring to the goths, punks etc
and are asians really discriminated against? yes... they are but are they as heavily discriminated against like they are aboriginals... no
 

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