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Consider this -- Is all you need a degree? (1 Viewer)

SoCal

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Originally posted by freaking_out
its something in latin- but it basically saying that the proof has been done/completed. :)
I see, thanks:).


Originally posted by KeypadSDM
I'm saying they have more access to knowledge because of better facilities (my specific example being engineering). This gives the students a greater ability to learn more, and thus become more knowledgeable.

However, it's the students porogative to gain their onw knowledge, and as jess has stated all the students she know study 24/7.

:p

Q.E.D.
Therefore your argument is flawed because you are saying that USyd engineering students have access to better facilities, however in this case the student has not opted to embrace these (as you agree to) and has hence only earned an average of 60%:). Therefore, he has not become more knowledgeable:).
 

SoCal

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Originally posted by KeypadSDM
Exam marks aren't always indicative of ability. So I'd go with the USyd grad knowing at least they had access to better facilities.
What is the point of the USyd graduate having access to better facilities though, if he is not using them:)!
 

SoCal

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Originally posted by KeypadSDM
He/she MIGHT be. That's the point.
With a 60% average, I doubt it. But you are going to say that "exam marks aren't always indicative of ability", so I will go with you there. Unlikely scenario though:).
 

CM_Tutor

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Originally posted by Merethrond
My point exactly. By the way what does Q.E.D. stand for:confused:?
Quod erat demonstrandum - meaning which was to be proved / demonstrated.

PS: Re the above discussion USyd v UoW - if we're talking two graduates with a 60 average, you need to consider whether the two Uni's mark to the same standards, and whether the subjects completed are of equivalent complexity - because if they don't, then the two sets of marks are not necessarily comparable. :)
 

santaslayer

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Originally posted by CM_Tutor
Quod erat demonstrandum - meaning which was to be proved / demonstrated.

PS: Re the above discussion USyd v UoW - if we're talking two graduates with a 60 average, you need to consider whether the two Uni's mark to the same standards, and whether the subjects completed are of equivalent complexity - because if they don't, then the two sets of marks are not necessarily comparable. :)
yes, exactly, but what we were considering was only the difference in unis.......but thanks:)

also, i was wondering if standards vary that significantly between unis?.and CM_Tutor, why dont u give us ur opinion on this topic? :p
 

BraZen

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After all this discussion, my option has come to this:

It it not always about the institution, but about the individual. People with greater drive and ablilty, may choose UWS, they may choose USYD or UOW. But in the end it is up to the indivdual's to provide what an employer want to get the work done. At the start of your career raw technical skills may seem more important but to move up the corperate ladder is all about interpersonal skills, time management and reliablity. But you dont always need to learn all this in University, It the greater span of your life your 3-4 yrs of university is not a long time. Learning is something that also comes with real life experience in practice. Overall, I think the all rounded education is the way to go, you need to enjoy these uni years ( I mean how often are you so free and young to do what you want) but you also need to expand and develop your mind. If you know where your going and have to motivation to get there, i think we'll all do fine.
 

santaslayer

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nehhh....... i was just suprised someone jumped into the convo (and actually read sum of the essay type responses .......LoLz). not that i mind.

and yes, u are right, uow ISNT crap!
 

CM_Tutor

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Originally posted by santaslayer
also, i was wondering if standards vary that significantly between unis?.and CM_Tutor, why dont u give us ur opinion on this topic? :p
Ok, I will :) - I've been meaning to get back to this thread for a couple of days.

I would start by reiterating the point that i made at the start of this thread: 'better' on Uni's depends (to an extent) on what you are looking for in an employee, and it certainly depends on the field in question.

If it were Chemisty, for example, I'd go the USyd grad. If it were BEd(Physical and Health Education), then UoW has a great 'rep. For communications, go UTS. For Law, I'd prefer UNSW or ANU.

Earlier in the thread, KeypadSDM made the comments that:
I'd go for USyd usually because I know the standard of the departments at USyd is much higher than UOW. Especially for engineering.
and
I'm saying they have more access to knowledge because of better facilities (my specific example being engineering). This gives the students a greater ability to learn more, and thus become more knowledgeable.
This is a valid and important point. If you are looking for familiarity with the most up to date equipment / analysis techniques, then a Uni like USyd - with its greater money, etc., and hence better facilities, is likely to produce the superior graduate - and this is even more true at post-graduate levels.

For example, in my area at USyd we are in the process of building the best equipped lab in the Southern Hemisphere, with state-of-the-art equipment. The group is led (in part) by a Federation Fellow - earning at least double the standard Professorial salary - who has a great international reputation. With a background like that, a grad from another Uni in this field would almost certainly come off second best.

Overall, if I had to choose, it would still depend on the position in question. For a tutoring job, for example, communication is paramount, and given similar knowledge, it would be the deciding factor (note, for a tutoring job, I wouldn't be keen on either with a 60 average, unless they were very strong in the particular subject in question). To be a lab assistant, running routine analyses, then experience with relevant equipment would be more important, which is likely to favour USyd over UoW.

Remember also that a University education is not only about acquiring subject knowledge. In many ways, it is the development of generic skills - problem solving, critical thinking, communication, teamwork, ... - that is at least as important. Someone with these skills will be able to overcome deficiencies in knowledge of specific areas - someone without them will not.
 

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thank you for ur input!
i tend to agree with u there......
and yes, it will depend on the degree in question......coz im not doing any science related field, i cant really comment on the differences in facilities...my course only really requires a pen and piece of paper...LoLz
 

CM_Tutor

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The quality will still vary greatly from Uni to Uni - I started out in Science / Law at USyd, and HATED the USyd Law faculty. It was taught in an extremely rigid way, opinion and critical thought were discouraged. This is the reason that UNSW and ANU Law grads are (or at least, were) better regarded by people I know in the profession. It may only require pen and paper, but also resources (library, good internet / database availability) and more importantly, good teaching - teaching that develops good skills in careful, logical analysis and critical thinking , and preferably teaching that is designed with the constructivist nature of learning in mind.
 

freaking_out

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Originally posted by santaslayer
thank you for ur input!
i tend to agree with u there......
and yes, it will depend on the degree in question......coz im not doing any science related field, i cant really comment on the differences in facilities...my course only really requires a pen and piece of paper...LoLz
yeah, bcoz wif your course- u can always start your own business and rake in the cash thru that way. :rolleyes:
 

hipsta_jess

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hey CM, what do academics from other unis think of newcastle?
 

CM_Tutor

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Originally posted by hipsta_jess
hey CM, what do academics from other unis think of newcastle?
The academics I know judge other academics by the quality of their work - for the most part - rather than the quality of their institution. Unless they have research experience (ie post-doctoral experience) from somewhere prestigous, especially if it is was with an eminent researcher.

As for when taking on honours / PhD students - Most academics will take on anyone who has the necessary marks as an honours student - there are some exceptions (one particular academic comes to mind). Academics will take on anyone for a PhD if they have a scholarship, because it's really cheap, skilled labour that produces papers for the academic.

I know I haven't really answered your specific question - sorry - but I don't know much about Newcastle. I do know, however, that the prejudice over institutions is less prominent within the university sector - mostly. Note - all of this is my opinion. :)
 

freaking_out

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Originally posted by CM_Tutor
...the prejudice over institutions is less prominent within the university sector - mostly. Note - all of this is my opinion. :)
yeah, i think thats why a high distinction in UWS is treated the same (by other uni's) as a high distinction in unsw. :D
 

santaslayer

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Originally posted by freaking_out
yeah, i think thats why a high distinction in UWS is treated the same (by other uni's) as a high distinction in unsw. :D

ahhhhh.......but dosent that come back to the 'facilities' (mentioned by CM_Tutor and the great KeyPadSM) in the particular uni they came from?
This discussion is beginning to look like the dog chasing his own tail..:p
 

CM_Tutor

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Or is it coming to the notion that the top would be the top anywhere, but there's a fair amount of variability in average?
 

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