Clueless, someone enlighten me! (1 Viewer)

[Vagabond]

Hey guys, just looking for some insight as per my ramble below...

I'm starting to get somewhat interested in the technical analysis of stock (right now I just love looking at charts, trying to pick out trends, learning a few fundamental techniques etc). For the sake of being open-minded, what sorts of jobs are there out there that this could be leveraged towards?

I'm guessing banks etc. would have very quant-based people to perform any form of technical analysis (and probably go in much greater detail) within their treasury dept, etc.? Would there be smaller financial advice-providing companies that incorporate a less detailed level of technical analysis with other types of research?

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Also on a completely different area does anyone have any insight in debt and/or derivatives broking? I.e. what sort of background would be suited to this field? What they look for in grads (I've heard that many people working at brokers don't even have degrees?). From what I've seen their talent seems to be in their attitudes and softer skills.

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Cheers folk

 

[Affinity]

Hey guys, just looking for some insight as per my ramble below...

I'm starting to get somewhat interested in the technical analysis of stock (right now I just love looking at charts, trying to pick out trends, learning a few fundamental techniques etc). For the sake of being open-minded, what sorts of jobs are there out there that this could be leveraged towards?

I'm guessing banks etc. would have very quant-based people to perform any form of technical analysis (and probably go in much greater detail) within their treasury dept, etc.? Would there be smaller financial advice-providing companies that incorporate a less detailed level of technical analysis with other types of research?

------

Also on a completely different area does anyone have any insight in debt and/or derivatives broking? I.e. what sort of background would be suited to this field? What they look for in grads (I've heard that many people working at brokers don't even have degrees?). From what I've seen their talent seems to be in their attitudes and softer skills.

------

Cheers folk

TA is the financial market version of horoscopes...

 

[Vagabond]

Yeah screw channels, resistance levels, volume levels etc...

They're all made up.

>_>

<_<

(And btw guys, where you're addressing the OP there's really no use quoting my wall of text ... )

 

[MasterPUA]

I don't think IB's do any sort of TA as they invest for the long term (where volume, direction etc don't really matter), rather than trade.

 

[BeeCom]

Yeah I guess I wasn't that clear...it's just that the term "trading" has gained a second meaning (to me at least).

Basically:

Trade = Trade (i.e. buy/sell on the different markets)

Investor = Someone who trades for long term gain (relative to a Trader). Fundamental Analysis is a lot more prevalent than TA (I don't think TA is even used when "investing")

Trader = Someone who uses TA and a bit of FA to take advantage of extremely short term swings in an asset's price. Day Traders usually only hold their positions for minutes at a time, hours at the most and never over night.

But both of the above classes are referred to as "traders" so it gets confusing, I have invented sub-classes of traders ^_^

As someone above referred to TA as horoscopes - there is little/no published research into TA so academics are highly skeptical of it. But there are people who make a very comfortable living day trading, if you can believe the interwebs!!1 Also for every succesful person there's probably 20 more than went bust - so who's to say that the succesful person's use of TA gave them an edge, or maybe they're just smarter than the other 20 or they use a mix of a lot more FA than TA.

also,

 

[Cookie182]

If u had one shot, one opportunity to sieze everything you ever wanted, what commerce major would you choose to complement a law degree? Accounting or Finance...

 

[Affinity]

As someone above referred to TA as horoscopes - there is little/no published research into TA so academics are highly skeptical of it. But there are people who make a very comfortable living day trading, if you can believe the interwebs!!1 Also for every succesful person there's probably 20 more than went bust - so who's to say that the succesful person's use of TA gave them an edge, or maybe they're just smarter than the other 20 or they use a mix of a lot more FA than TA.

Beh.. Horoscopes atleast gets things right once every 2 times instead of once in 20.

 

[roadcone]

academia.

 

[velox]

So much rubbish in this thread.

Brokers are usually execution only. Sometimes they read you some research from a research/broking house and charge another $100. They are basically equivalent to real estate agents on the finance pecking order.

Affinity: Do you know how many prop trading houses and IBanks trade? They do use tech analysis as one of their tools, so I dont think you can equate it to horoscopes. However feel free to prove me otherwise.


Cookie: Stop fretting over your degree. Do well in it and get some work exp in the summer and you'll be fine.

Traders do hold positions overnight. Some of my trading buddies have spi contracts short open from 6000. A lot of traders will have multiple accounts so that you can actively hedge stuff cheaply and trade in the other.

 

[Vagabond]

Meh. I just got the opportunity to see brokers work and in one particular company really loved the environment.

They get paid very well, work specific hours and maintain a chummy environment with lots of perks.

 

[Affinity]

Affinity: Do you know how many prop trading houses and IBanks trade? They do use tech analysis as one of their tools, so I dont think you can equate it to horoscopes. However feel free to prove me otherwise.

Just because all banks do it doesn't mean it's a good method ( And it's not a major part of their strategy). As an analogy, all construction firms in most traditional asian countries have elaborate rituals to honour the master lu ban and appease the gods of the site... and they always chooses auspicious days to start work. Do you believe that it is of any use? (besides reassuring the workers). TA and horoscopes do similar things, they help to reassure people.

Even if prop trading operations use TA and it worked most of the time doesn't mean much.. one big loss and you're gone.. have a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trading_losses

Back to TA. You need to judge it based on it's performance, try devising a trading rule based on volumes and prices and see if it works well, would you know that the market was going to crash around this time last year (so that TA helps one to avoid big losses)? Or atleast does it allow one to beat the market on average (over a long period of time so that some significant events are experienced)

And there are basic problems with TA, namely it just depends on two variables. It's hard to believe that so many influencing factors can be summarized into price and volumes.

You might then argue that professionals should use their judgment. But that's like: "well TA is right most of the time except when my judgment dictates otherwise"

 

[Vagabond]

I dont even know if TA is the right term

Would any technique utilising charts/historical pricing fall under the umbrella of TA?

 

[Affinity]

that's how the term is generally understood

 

[velox]

Good point, just because banks do it, it doesn't mean it works. However I have found it works for me and countless others.

Many people got out when the market double topped - simple TA. I think there is value in TA however most people arguing against it seem to think it is the only way people trade which I dont think anyone does.

When I do trade indices I see that quite often, simple support/resistance levels are respected. Yes, there is a lot of crap within TA, however I believe the basics work well.

Many people have used TA to continuously make money on the markets, I dont think your analogy really fits, because you can't really compare religion and a theory that many people use to continuously make money.

edit: Btw im not talking about TA on stocks as I dont know about them. Im talking about currencies, futures etc where it is much more liquid.

 

[MasterPUA]

try devising a trading rule based on volumes and prices and see if it works well

I agree with Velox, there is a lot of BS in this thread.

If I am a hedge fund manager with the power to influence trading volumes and prices, there are plenty of rule based strategies that I can use to generate alpha. When you have humans on the end of a buy/sell order, there will always be a degree of emotion in markets. Emotion isn't efficient. Many would consider algo trading to be TA, and a large number of institutions have used algo trading to great success.

 

[Vagabond]

*bump*

So does anyone have any genuine insight into my OP?.. No brokers out there?? Surely there must be some experience/knowledge outside the ubiquitous IB/Big4 scene!

Feel a little rorted given karma, etc.