Classical Greek Cont. & Ext. Class of 07 (2 Viewers)

[Mr Gumby]

My creative question wasn't so bad - I wrote about Dr Johnson's dictionary, which was a bit of a coincidence, actually, since I was talking about that to someone as I walked into the exam room. But it's postmodernism, so you can write just about anything and get away with it. I saw that locket question and thought that was a bit odd, though.

You did finish the ancient exam, didn't you? Oh sorry, you don't want to talk about it. You don't have to answer that.

When I say classics are important, I don't mean that you'll necessarily have to communicate with anyone in Latin or Greek. What I mean is that a good knowledge of the civilisations that gave us democracy and law and human rights and citizenship and all the other concepts that make up western civilisation is important, and that the best way to learn about them is to learn their languages. It's the same rationale as for studying English or History. An awareness of philosophical and cultural heritage is at least as important as the more mechanical skills you learn in maths. And I often think that if we spent more time reading Plato and Vergil and Cicero we might be better off. The Americans like to compare themselves to Rome, but if they read more Vergil, for example, they mightn't be so eager to get themselves into wars. Or perhaps if they read some of Cicero thoughts about republicanism, the exact stuff that inspired their Constitution...wishful thinking.

And sorry to inflict that rant on you. Only two exams left for me (History Ext. and Latin Ext.). I'm guessing only one for you.

 

[TheLadyDisdain]

We had to write about a key. XD
But I guess that was easy to bullshit so I just alluded to physical and metaphorical keys, which better have bloody worked. All this shit about metaphorically unlocking emotions when faced with revenge and the unlocking of locks where symbolic things were and crap.

Justice and Grief was annoying though. >>

Ok to save my brain, MATHS can be useful and so can CLASSICS depending on the person, so meh end of discussion and pain to my brain! XD

 

[christmasbeetle]

Keys I thought would be good for your story -- especially since you were talking about having someone setting a house on fire and presumably they'd need to get /into/ the house in the first place. Freedom and intimidation was pretty good, though if they'd picked any other synonym for 'intimidation' it would have made my making up sentences a lot easier.

Stop discussing? But I like arguing

Talking about Dr Johnson's dictionary? As you do O__o

This would be why we do both, yes?
And I have to say, maths in the back end of any paper isn't very mechanical. At all. O___o. And circle geometry is more creatively taxing than any creative writing I do. XDD. ("Angle...is that a straight line? Can I prove it's a straight line? Centre of circle? Right angle? What chord leads onto what angle...*panic*"...although they were nice this year :3)

 

[antiphon]

heh. apologies for rants on the Internet are so stupid. if you really ~were~ sorry, it's the Interwebz, you can delete everything you just typed. => insincerity ftw.


Nick, I'm still with Julia on this one; it's why we do both maths and languages. and to put it bluntly, if you think maths is purely mechanical, you have absolutely no idea what 4-unit is like. the last questions of 4-unit are something like "Here's your tools. we want something pretty. go make." where, of course, your tools are everything you've ever learnt in maths.
(yeah the circle geometry was quite nice. although some people were a little annoyed that they wrote page-long proofs for them when it's going to turn out to require only 6 lines or so. XD)

 

[christmasbeetle]

(I was just happy it didn't involve any tangents. I can (generally) work the angle ones, but anything outside the circle stuffs me up. Probably comes from never actually learning the proofs (actually, that was the last thing I did the night before...hmm.) And of course all that lovely creativity when trying to work out what exactly they want you to do. Bleddy noise levels question. You know what? I actually think the 2u paper was harder than the 3u. In the sense that I expect to be able to do all the 2u paper, and couldn't (bloody, bloody noise levels D: ), whereas I got out a decent chunk (more of a decent chunk than 2u possibly) of the last question of the 3u. Provided I got it right, of course O___o.)

...then again, that might have something to do with the fact I studied just about twice as much for 3u as 2u XD

 

[TheLadyDisdain]

Circle geometry was just the most annoying piece of shit I even encountered! I liked some aspects of 3u, Ki do you remember what the thing I liked was called? It was the one with the multiple rootie things plus the inequalities shit. The rest of the 3u was GAY! XD (I think I liked 3D trig for a bit too before deciding I cbb to learn it anymore!)

Yeah Keys did work really well for my story, like I heard a few WTFs, but I found it really easy to adapt. I mean so many people were stressing about their creatives but the stimulus is there to help you, not to screw you over.
Yep she unlocked some metaphorical feelings and she unlocked a chest containing the revenge impliments and she unlocked the house to get in...and then she also got locked in the bedroom with all the candles and basically incinerated. XD

I hope they like my subverted ending...basically she felt guilty but she had already come to such a stage of degradation she basically had already destroyed herself anyway so I made them all die...well I didn't say they all die, but if you get locked in a burning house it's kind of implied. XD (so basically she carried out revenge indirectly and it was unwanted...plus she kind of destroyed herself, so I guess there was catharsis?)

Okies I'm going to stop analysing my story. XD

 

[Mr Gumby]

Yeah? Try 'pleasure' and 'anxiety' for postmodernism. Hearing pleasure was at the heart of postmodernism was news to me - it's certainly not given me any. Anxiety, on the other hand...

I'm not in the habit of discussing Dr Johnson regularly. We were talking about when English spellings were standardised (no, I don't remember why), and my friend suggested it was the King James edition of the Bible that started it, whereas I claimed it was Dr Johnson's dictionary. He may be right, but I think the dictionary was more important.

My story was about using Dr Johnson's dictionary to take over the world. Ah postmodern creatives, how I love you. When it's postmodernism, suddenly any old trash becomes legitimate. By the way, Jeremy, do you do 3u English (and if so, do you do pomo)?.

It depends on what you understand by 'mechanical'. I don't mean easy and straightforward. While I admit that I'm not speaking form experience, you'll agree that in maths there is usually only one answer to a problem (in any case, a very limited number of answers). There may be different ways to go about it, but in the end, you're either right or wrong. It's mechanical in the sense that you're given a problem and you find the mandated answer. Then you move on.

In literary/philosophical subjects, there is no one answer. If the subject is being run properly (i.e., not the way the English course is run), there is no mandated answer, either. Approaching a problem in these subjects is an ongoing exercise. To take an example from the Greek Cont. paper, that question about the moral issues of revenge in Electra can never be answered. We will never know what Euripides thought about it, or how the Athenian audience reacted to it. If I answered the question again in ten years time, my response would no more be the final answer than it was when I did it last week. Of course, with further research and study of Greek and Greece I may get closer to understanding the moral issues of revenge, but nobody is ever going to fully understand it. The problem provides room for an infinite range of answers. So, whereas maths is a more mechanical subject (and by that I do not mean simple/easy) literary/philosophical subjects are more discursive and dialectical.

I don't intend this comparison to imply any inferiority on maths' part. What maths teaches you to do is use a concentrated form of logical reasoning to analyse a problem and find a solution. In the end though, the problem, however difficult it may appear, generally has a simple solution. Literary and philosophical subjects require a less tangible form of reasoning, and they don't operate in such clearly defined parameters. And, the 'solution', if it ever existed, would be more complex than the problem itself. This is what I mean when I say you can't claim that maths is any more relevant than, for example, classics. They both teach important skills, and it would be perverse to claim that one is more important than the other.

Now that was a rant. You know it's a proper rant when the computer logs you out half way through. Damn machine...

 

[christmasbeetle]

Steph -- polynomials. Polynomials are fun . I also like induction

See, discussing when spelling was standardised isn't normal either.

We're not disputing that. What we're disputing is that learning that 'mechanical' way of thinking is just as important as learning the waffly P) type of thinking, simply because it develops a different part of the brain, and so shouldn't be suggested to be inferior because not all of the top five of your school do it.

Blame the BoS.

Hooray for not-working . We went to sculptures by the sea today, and attracted a couple of weirdros -again-.

 

[TheLadyDisdain]

XD! That's right! I liked Polynomials, still wasn't enough to make me bothered to study! (made me bothered enough to do the homework. )
I left during induction didn't I? That was the long division stuff wasn't it!?

Justice in revenge tragedy is normally an illusion I think, perceived in the mind of the avenger. Justice normally serves a universal purpose, but as revenge is nearly always personal, stemmed from the primitive desire to hurt whoever hurts you; the word justice cannot really apply to what's being done as it not aimed to be universal... It's confusing. Then there are so many emotions that override grief within revenge and revenge tragedy I don't think it applies all that much.

So yeah I know what you mean about "baha" questions. Why couldn't they have asked me about the morality of revenge, but I suppose that wouldn't have been challenging?

Yeah I know what you're saying Ki. My mind tend to work in some form of warped manner where I think there are many explanations to absolutely everything so I just end up confusing myself, so I guess doing subjects like maths and chemistry are nice in getting me to think with the "logical" part of my brain. (then again I love the waffly questions in chem) I guess Civ makes you logical too being a strat game and all...so does AOE and Diablo and Pharaoh...TOLD YOU GAMING WAS GOOD!

Nicholas, that may be a rant for you, but we could still out rant you easily!

Yeah Ki, we should really work out why we seem to attract weirdos anytime the three of us go out. o_o

 

[antiphon]

Yeah Ki, we should really work out why we seem to attract weirdos anytime the three of us go out. o_o

I wonder why. (and no, not because of the law of attraction of opposites.)

3-unit maths doesn't have much fun stuff in it. where fun stuff = stuff that made you go "WTF is going ON here".

there is that ABC program about the English language and the spelling of words. or whatever. maybe that had something to do with it.

Olson - no, I don't do Eng Ext. thank goodness.
and nobody will EVER fully understand maths either.
see, this is the problem - pretty much all we've ever been taught about maths in high school is how to answer exam questions. which is, of course, going to be about getting the right answers. in 4-unit, they start to move in the more "pure maths" direction, which is, as my maths teacher and my Virgil teacher have said about their respective subjects, all about us "showing off what we know" - ie if you show something, all well and good, but HOW you show it, your argument, matters. I'm not saying that it's more important than classics by any means, but it's nowhere near as close-ended as you're making it out to be.

 

[christmasbeetle]

It's not as though we were even doing anything strange. We were walking along the street. O__o

Number of times people in my class have ended up at the right answer with the wrong method and been punished for it O__o (I still haven't worked out how they can make two mistakes in the working and end up with the right answer )

 

[TheLadyDisdain]

Dude it's possible, but I did that in Chem. XD (probably've done it in maths too, I make up my own methods for some things.) My Chem teacher was all "I have no idea what you've done but the answer's right" and I was like "Neither do I and XD"

Yeah exactly if you saw us in the street just walking normally you wouldn't think we were weird. I do hate it when strange guys like yesterday are like "Oi girls come here". Getting honked at is probably worse though. >>

 

[christmasbeetle]

XD But we get marked down if the method's wrong, alas.

If we got honked at we could assume it was at the traffic, though, and we'd also know they'd need to keep driving as opposed to the guys who could possibly have walked after us O__o

 

[Fakhri]

well at least no one has followed us...so thats good..us ignoring them helps i think..i don't know...but yeah we do attract weirds....mmm...i would say it is cause of what we talk about but no one every hears what we say and then actual call out to us or whatever..

well i know that its not as weird as having like a hundred guys..and i mean really old guys staring at you for just wearing jeans and a long t-shirt..when me and my sis were in pakistan we were just walking down the street..well i think pakistan is weird in general but hey...well what made it worse was our cousins just walked behind us laughing..yeah that was fun....

its genetics...u are soo right ki...there is no other reason..

btw..back to this maths vs classics thing..i think you are all right..i guess if you actual take the subject seriously enough to delve further into the subject then yes i think both areas are very very useful..like you said nicholas classics.humanities teach you about the present and ideas and maths is logic and teaches your brain to think and slove problems...but i think that at school or at least my experience of school as taught me neither in either subject...mostly cause both subjects have taught me to use my memory...and i guess if i think about it i have never actual thought that hard about a subject...mostly i just write down what my teachers say and then memorise them and often don't even rewrie but just copy..like in latin every answer i swear i put down well most of them was taken from my notes...

btw nicholas you can't rant...i think i would out rant anyone...well maybe steph can out rant me but i can out talk everyone..

jeremy soo glad you don't do english ext..be like me yeah..yeah.......english is bad..but then again you do the other extreme...unlike me...so i guess i have no extremes....(doing 6 units of classics and ancient is not extreme)

 

[TheLadyDisdain]

Yeah, I guess? I mean I think I got full marks for that part of the question in chem because it was only correct if my answer was, but I think I lost marks for a screwed method before?

Yeah Zara, like I think Nil was telling me how one day she went out wearing like a skirt in Sri Lanka and she got all these weird looks or something?
Did you at least go and bash up your cousins after that? XD

Yeah I mean if I count my dad as weird as I guess he is then my mum must attract weirdos too. Yeah she might have told me a few attracting weirdo stories over the years...

Then again with the maths teaches you how to be logical and problem solve thing, I'm still as illogical as ever even after having to put up with maths and I have managed to problem solve with no maths. Ok I guess learning patterns in Zoombinis doesn't count then? >>

With the honking thing though, it is bad when you're like walking down the semi-mainish road off where my street is and the stupid P platers honk at you just because you're wearing a skirt or shorts or something so normal like that not even in a provocative way. I guess coz the road is so quiet they could stop and not hold up traffic!

 

[Mr Gumby]

Again, I admit that I'm not speaking from experience about higher levels of maths. Nevertheless, you'd be drawing a fairly long bow to claim that maths really was a discursive subject. The argument in maths, the way you show how your answer is the answer, is not an argument in the same sense, it's a reasoning process. And once again, it is either right or it is wrong. Your logic and performance of the several sums can't be partially right; they're either right or wrong. Of course nobody will ever understand everything about maths - the same goes for everything. But it is possible to definitively solve a problem in maths. Maths teaches you problem solving. Literary subjects teach you to understand and discuss problems, without necessarily finding a solution. Obviously, then, the two things go hand in hand. I never suggested one was more important than the other, and that was only a passing observation about our top five. A curiosity that will probably not be repeated again for many years.

I suppose the difference is that my rants are really just long monologues that nobody's interested in or wants to hear. But they do have a logical thread. Your rants are rambling, in Zara's case ellipsis-riden, things, for want of a better word, that people may be interested in, but which have no logical thread. In that sense they are indeed true rants.

Who would have thought Sculptures by the Sea would attract so many freaks? That sounds vaguely disturbing, although it seems this isn't new for you.

 

[antiphon]

Who would have thought Sculptures by the Sea would attract so many freaks? That sounds vaguely disturbing, although it seems this isn't new for you.

oh, the irony.

 

[christmasbeetle]

The weirdos were actually between the bustop and Town Hall station. They were drinking, so I blame that.

Luckily, Nicholas, you'll never have a top five in a year that you are in ever again, so it won't be necessary.
...meaning year that you are in, not top five that you are in

 

[Mr Gumby]

As you know I only skim read these posts, so I may have missed that. As I said, it was just a passing observation about our top five. Kind of like when someone stops on the street and points and something as says 'ooh, isn't that strange' and then keeps wlaking, much as they seem to have done to you on the weekend.

By the way, Steph, what did you mean about me being helpful? I mean, I know I am, I'm just wondering what brought it up.

 

[TheLadyDisdain]

Alright. The maths vs. literary subjects argument is now over, alright?

I find it hard to rant logically then again my logic is non existent. XD

Nicholas, what I mean was Mrs Heathcliff indeed! Honestly. >>