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christianity and dinosaurs> can they be friends? (2 Viewers)

Beaky

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When you know a chrisitan healer that has healed a friend from Cancer, somehow all this debate seems irrelavant.

However I can understand people getting the shits from people that constantly harrass them round uni. Especially those bloody socialists who wont stop giving me pamphlets.
 

MoonlightSonata

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Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.
 

Beaky

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Asquithian said:
put i really dont appreciate getting a big yellow paper pushed at me as i get on the bus informing me of how great god is and how has given me everthing i have...
Asqy I have to agree with you, I believe your own self should figure these things out. Its up to you to choose what you believe in, not let a group (let alone government) force you to believe and invade your personal space. However you can imagine that if hypothetically god did exist, and that people believed him to be their saviour, then they would inevitably become really emotional about on the subject of god. For people who worship god, it is impossible for them to fathom how big he is, for want of a better word, and so worship (singing, dancing, praising etc.) is the best way for some people to express themselves. Think about it, if you believed that you held the secret to eternal life, then wouldn't you be bursting to tell all your friends about it, as you believe otherwise they will go to hell? The fact that these christians don't know the people they evangelise to but still want to save them, should make you respect them at least, as they are only doing it for other people's benefit.
 

lengstar

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I believe Christianity in general is what people are arguing about. There are different perspectives about Christianity, just as people interpret Christianity in different ways. I believe Christianity should be a faith in which oneself decides to find truth. Even though the doctrine of Christianity is to help people see the light it is often taken overboard as they misinterpret what it is they really should be doing. Christianity is showing a new way of understanding the world, a canon for changing oneself and embracing a new idea. Unfortunately the Bible itself as a guide book has many contradictory flaws and for this reason total acceptance of it is wrong. Its only through your own interpretation of the Bible and what you learn of its teachings that matter. God, in my opinion, is not some transcendential being but a force from within yourself. God, when he is personified as a separate being, is where the arguments and conflict arise. To truly understand God is really to truly understand oneself. So in this circumstance I choose not to follow established religion. I choose my own destiny.
 

waterfowl

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A little message to the people here who are against Christianity - don't celebrate Christmas or Easter! If you do you are a hypocrite, because these two holidays are Christian holidays, the only reason that they are public holidays is because our constitution was written when Christianity was tied in with government.
 

lengstar

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those two holidays have become almost meaningless in today's society. its a way for the corporations to manipulate the public into spending large quantities of money. but to others the meaning of christmas and easter do still hold true. anyways both have become interpreted as cultural holidays of western societies and noone really gives a shit. like i said, everyone's going to interpret it which ever way they like.
 

MoonlightSonata

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waterfowl said:
A little message to the people here who are against Christianity - don't celebrate Christmas or Easter! If you do you are a hypocrite, because these two holidays are Christian holidays, the only reason that they are public holidays is because our constitution was written when Christianity was tied in with government.
Ah, no. My family and I celebrate christmas as a traditional time of giving. Period. We are not religious and for us, and many people, it has no relevance to that effect, despite its origin.
 

Rorix

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Rorix said:
One. People who practice Christianity aren't Christianity itself. In other words, what you think of people that practice Christianity has no bearing on the faith itself. Thus, your anecdotes about the cluelessness of some people are quite irrelevant.

Three. Even Christians themselves acknowledge that they cannot provide conclusive proof that God exists, but it is a matter of belief.
It's good how I can just quote myself.
 

eviltama

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waterfowl said:
A little message to the people here who are against Christianity - don't celebrate Christmas or Easter! If you do you are a hypocrite, because these two holidays are Christian holidays, the only reason that they are public holidays is because our constitution was written when Christianity was tied in with government.
My parents are Catholic so they celebrate x-mas for all those horrid religious reasons. Ditto for easter and fishy friday etc. I celebrate getting pressies and giving pressies and the whole 'season of peace and love' deal... and the other holidays i don't bother with.

its all consumerised now. Money money money, rather than goodwill towards men and joy for the new year.
 

iambored

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hipsta_jess said:
ive said it before, ill say it again, find me hard, solid evidence that totally blows evolution out of the water, even to the most devout biologists, and perhaps i will contemplate going with it...but until then, i believe creationism is a complete load of crap.
Iron woman said:
So do many Christians...but the point is that it's not the make or break issue of Christianity...neither is what certain prominent cristians believe.
yeah, there is no way the scientific evidence on evolution is wrong.
waterfowl said:
Just like people who are non-Christians, some discriminate and most don't! It is unfair to say that all Christians are discriminatory and prejudiced, just like it would be unfair to say that all non-Christians are prejudiced.
why thank you.
waterfowl said:
The best scientific minds once thought the earth was flat!
The best scientific minds today say that we evolved from apes!
I'm sure those scientists who believed the earth was flat had "proof" of their own.
I much prefer to believe that I was created by God for a purpose, rather than some random event who is related to a dirty ape.
we did evolve from apes though. i think scientific proof today is much stronger than from the days of the flat earth.
Asquithian said:
she said it would be great if ALL THE WORLD was christian...i asked her whether a monoculture of christianity was good or at least the aim...she said yes...I responded by asking whether that would mean censorship of my views? She said no...I said well do my views have merit? ...she said they were just wrong...
lol i don't know where you find these people
yes, monoculture is evil, so why do you keep saying there should be no religion, all public schools, that's pushing to monoculture
hipsta_jess said:
so what you're saying is that we can only have good morals by being religious?
no, that religion endorses morals, that it helps some people consider more moral solutions and that morals are the main foundation of religion (not whether the earth was created in 7 days or whether we evolved from the apes). that's what i got from it
it's not just through a religious upbringing that these things come! most people are moral, religion just HELPS more people to get into contact with morals.
malkin86 said:
Why do science and religion have to contradict anyway? Science could easily be another way of working out how God's creations work...
I think that’s how a lot of people see it, so no, they don’t have to contradict
 

loquasagacious

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Well I attended church through much of my infancy and for want of a better term 'tween' years. My mother attends church, my grandmother attends chuch, my uncle (who is gay) and his partner attend church. NB: uncle is on mothers side as is church going grandmother, my father and his parents do not attend church.

I have made the conscious decision not to attend church. I am at most an agnostic.

I celebrate x-mas for the presents, I celebrate easter for the chocolate. Neither celebration bears any particular meaning for me.

As a note in regards to the origins of christianity and religion changing over time: Jews, Christians and Muslims all have the same old testament. Christians have their version of the new testament and muslims have their version of the new testament (in which Jesus features as a prophet).

I believe that religion should be a personal thing, it should not be a part of politics, nor part of the public domain. I am quite happy for christians to believe things that I think are wrong, I call this tolerance. I would appreciate if christians could tolerate my beliefs and not seek to change them.

As far as I am concerned once somebody has activily tried to convert me, Its open slather, they just walked up and asked me to refute their beliefs and indeed to try and convert them from their wayward ways.

UWS Richmond got the council to stop christians pestering students at the entrance to the uni, lol.

In short I belive in relation to Christianity:

The world was not created in seven days and all of humanity does not stem from one man, one woman and their surving son.

There was not an all enveloping flood a nd everything on earth does not fit into a boat, nor come from one breeding pair of each species.

The bible specifically preaches intolerance, see Leviticus the stoning of homosexuals as a prominent example.

Upon exiting Egypt the jews did not very nice things to most over people in the area, generally butchering them or being led astray by them and then god butchering them.

Jesus did exist however he was not the son of a god.

Originally there were two gods in judaeism however as a result of a power struggle within the 'church'(synagogoe) at the time, the female god was removed and the god left is God as we know it.

Jesus was in a relationship with (i forget her name) and she was not a prostitute, another power struggle saw women suppressed, this time around the time of the Byzantine emperors.

That god backwards is dog is not mystical in any way.

That 1 to the power of 3 equaling 1 does not prove the existance of the holy trinity.

The majority of Christians tend to be less educated and are close minded (bear in mind that this statement is based on my knowledge of christians, including my family and those who attended church with me, this i believe validates this view).

Creationsim is a crock. Also you proved that you are intolerant by not wanting to be related to a dirty monkey. Evolution is a theory yes, like the theory of relativity and flight. They are called theories because scientists are open-minded and will always test new evidence. Evolution is a logical explanation for the state of the Earth. Because the chances of life developing are low does not mean that it doesnt happen.

Entropy does not disprove evolution rather it proves it (in a very limited manner) a cell become less ordered it mutates and there we have random mutation the beginnings of evolution.

Christianity can be interpreted in good ways, it can be interpreted in bad ways. Religion can be both a pretext and a cause of war.
 

iambored

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hipsta_jess said:
ive said it before, ill say it again, find me hard, solid evidence that totally blows evolution out of the water, even to the most devout biologists, and perhaps i will contemplate going with it...but until then, i believe creationism is a complete load of crap.
Iron woman said:
So do many Christians...but the point is that it's not the make or break issue of Christianity...neither is what certain prominent cristians believe.
yeah, there is no way the scientific evidence on evolution is wrong.
waterfowl said:
Just like people who are non-Christians, some discriminate and most don't! It is unfair to say that all Christians are discriminatory and prejudiced, just like it would be unfair to say that all non-Christians are prejudiced.
why thank you.
waterfowl said:
The best scientific minds once thought the earth was flat!
The best scientific minds today say that we evolved from apes!
I'm sure those scientists who believed the earth was flat had "proof" of their own.
I much prefer to believe that I was created by God for a purpose, rather than some random event who is related to a dirty ape.
we did evolve from apes though. i think scientific proof today is much stronger than from the days of the flat earth.
Asquithian said:
she said it would be great if ALL THE WORLD was christian...i asked her whether a monoculture of christianity was good or at least the aim...she said yes...I responded by asking whether that would mean censorship of my views? She said no...I said well do my views have merit? ...she said they were just wrong...
lol i don't know where you find these people
yes, monoculture is evil, so why do you keep saying there should be no religion, all public schools, that's pushing to monoculture
hipsta_jess said:
so what you're saying is that we can only have good morals by being religious?
no, that religion endorses morals, that it helps some people consider more moral solutions and that morals are the main foundation of religion (not whether the earth was created in 7 days or whether we evolved from the apes). that's what i got from it
it's not just through a religious upbringing that these things come! most people are moral, religion just HELPS more people to get into contact with morals.
malkin86 said:
Why do science and religion have to contradict anyway? Science could easily be another way of working out how God's creations work...
I think that’s how a lot of people see it, so no, they don’t have to contradict
 

veanz

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NICK! youve just activated a time bomb :p

what bloody shits me are threads or arguments like this which link science with religion or vice versa. dont you people realise that you argue from completely two different ways of thinking? and merging the two will lead to no answer or a successful persuasion? calling each other narrow minded doesnt solve anything - half the time youre not even listening to each other - just ready to spit something out in hope to ironically persuade each other. why do either side want to seem to wipe each other out?

imo, theres no point in arguing with specific references, and anyone who posts here should know that some sort of level ground will never be reached.

cant we all just get along.. :rolleyes:
 
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Beaky said:
Think about it, if you believed that you held the secret to eternal life, then wouldn't you be bursting to tell all your friends about it, as you believe otherwise they will go to hell? The fact that these christians don't know the people they evangelise to but still want to save them, should make you respect them at least, as they are only doing it for other people's benefit.

Read Asquithian's signature.
They may believe that they are doing it in a beneficial sense, but they are merely casuing distress through their blatant disregard for another person's beliefs.
 

Rorix

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veanz said:
what bloody shits me are threads or arguments like this which link science with religion or vice versa. dont you people realise that you argue from completely two different ways of thinking? and merging the two will lead to no answer or a successful persuasion?
No, I'm sorry, you are incorrect.
 

eviltama

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Asquithian said:
i never said that there should be no religion...ull find that public schools still have christian studies
Mine didnt, still doesnt and none of the ones i know of in the area have Christian studies... other than the compulsory 2 lessons in years 8/9. They do SOR tho, but thats not Christian studies really.
 

veanz

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Rorix said:
No, I'm sorry, you are incorrect.
please elaborate as to why you are sorry and why i am incorrect. this oughta be enlightening.

edit: and i hope you realise where im going with this..
 
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hipsta_jess

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Asquithian said:
i never said that there should be no religion...ull find that public schools still have christian studies
i had scripture at primary school, but it was a wank (the scripture teachers missed more lessons than they attended)
and once i hit high school, there was absolutely nothing.
 

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veanz said:
please elaborate as to why you are sorry and why i am incorrect. this oughta be enlightening.

edit: and i hope you realise where im going with this..
Because science and religion can and do coexist, they're not mutually exclusive.

Science more tends to explain WHAT happens and HOW it happens, whereas religion tries to explain WHY it happened.

I'd like to hear your argument to the contrary.
 

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hipsta_jess said:
i had scripture at primary school, but it was a wank (the scripture teachers missed more lessons than they attended)
and once i hit high school, there was absolutely nothing.
We had R.E. in my public primary school as well, but I got to sit out and play computer because I'm not Christian.
 

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