China arrests human rights activists on International Human Rights Day (2 Viewers)

[Trefoil]

In a paradoxical move, China celebrated International Human Rights Day on Wednesday with public security officials escorting protesters and demonstrators into buses to be detained after only 30 minutes of calling for free elections and an end to government corruption, The New York Times reports.

Despite the arrests, state-run newspapers, news stations and commentaries commended the government’s intentions to its “nonstop progress and efforts” to promote free speech and individual rights. About 40 people lined up outside the Foreign Ministry building to press the government to adopt free elections. Moreover, Wednesday was the third day of detention for Liu Xiaobo, who was arrested for drafting a letter demanding political legal and constitutional reform. Xiaobo’s letter was posted on the Internet and signed in favor by 303 Chinese academics, artists, farmers and lawyers.

Zhang Zuhua, a political theorist and rights advocate, was one of the other signers who were detained for their support. Zuhua was sent home after 12 hours of questioning by authorities, but they kept his passport, four computers, some books and money, according to The New York Times. Authorities say that the letter was a serious offense and criticism to the Communist government.

Human rights advocates fear that Xiaobo’s fate as he may be charged with “inciting subversion of state power” that carries a three-year sentence. However, this isn’t the first time Xiaobo was sent to prison; he was arrested in 1989 for 20 months for playing a part in the Tiananmen Square demonstrations, and was sentenced to three years of hard labor after criticizing the Communist party.

Xiabo’s letter called for political change and that the current political system is “disastrous.” Moreover, he blames the government for “stripping people of their rights, destroying their dignity and corrupting normal human interaction.”

http://www.collegenews.com/index.ph...sts_on_international_human_rights_day_220204/

Also, China is threatening to cut off trade with Poland and France because the Dalai Lama visited those countries and gave speeches about democracy.

One wonders if the Chinese will ever get a clue.

 

[ironman000]

gave a speech about democracy. ROFLMAO. democracy is a fucking scam. period.
though the human rights issue are valid, the rest is just trash talk from a the dalai lama. who infact is a well known CIA agent. the irony couldnt be so perfect, United States talking about human rights is like China talking about....democracy.

 

[Will Shakespear]

gave a speech about democracy. ROFLMAO. democracy is a fucking scam. period.
though the human rights issue are valid, the rest is just trash talk from a the dalai lama. who infact is a well known CIA agent.

a chinese nationalist; i have detected one

 

[Trefoil]

gave a speech about democracy. ROFLMAO. democracy is a fucking scam. period.
though the human rights issue are valid, the rest is just trash talk from a the dalai lama. who infact is a well known CIA agent. the irony couldnt be so perfect, United States talking about human rights is like China talking about....democracy.

Really? The last Chinese nationalist I spoke to told me he was actually an Indian spy and that China is already a democracy so they don't need to listen to Western lies.

Which Chinese nutjob am I to believe? Choices, choices...

 

[ironman000]

a chinese nationalist; i have detected one

oh great, a retard has been detected.
criticizing democracy or the lack of it in western society or even the fact the it has been gloated to such an extreme by the western alliance doesn't make one a Chinese nationalist.

edit: i have no relationship with china is any way. i am not a decendant from a chinese family or have any sort of affiliation with china.

oh wait, i have seen a trend on this forum...criticize Israel = arab. pro china = Chinese.

fucking grow up

 

[Enteebee]

In a paradoxical move, America celebrated International Human Rights Day on Wednesday by continuing to abuse POW's in it's Guantanamo torture factory. P.S. China sux.

 

[A High Way Man]

i hope glorious china slaughters all those APOSTATES AND DISSENTERS

 

[Trefoil]

oh great, a retard has been detected.
criticizing democracy or the lack of it in western society or even the fact the it has been gloated to such an extreme by the western alliance doesn't make one a Chinese nationalist.

edit: i have no relationship with china is any way. i am not a decendant from a chinese family or have any sort of affiliation with china.

oh wait, i have seen a trend on this forum...criticize Israel = arab. pro china = Chinese.

fucking grow up

The thing is, being "pro China" generally requires you to believe in various conspiracy theories to explain away China's lack of democracy or human rights.

If it's not 'Western imperialism' then it's a CIA plot to 'undermine Chinese sovereignty'.

Just once I'd like one of you demented fucks to acknowledge China's abysmal attitude to both human rights and democracy and hope for improvement in the future instead of trying to sweep it under the carpet.

 

[Enteebee]

In part though... don't you think perhaps in a way for the betterment of the world/china's own people there does need to be a slightly more authoritarian form of government than we see for instance in the western world? I.e. I could see a government that is less authoritarian actually having many more rebels forming up to undermine their sovereignty. I mean I find it hard because on the one hand you definitely have to make it known that X abuse isn't right, but at the same time doesn't some consideration have to be given to the makeup of the society its self and the unique challenges which this creates?

 

[Trefoil]

In a paradoxical move, America celebrated International Human Rights Day on Wednesday by continuing to abuse POW's in it's Guantanamo torture factory. P.S. China sux.

You mean the very same America which DEMOCRATICALLY elected a president who vowed to close Guantanamo bay and improve on the various human rights failings of the previous administration?

Quite an apt analogy, NTB.

 

[Trefoil]

In part though... don't you think perhaps in a way for the betterment of the world/china's own people there does need to be a slightly more authoritarian form of government than we see for instance in the western world?

No. Look to Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc to understand why.

They've had this stupid communist system for roughly 50 years. Any claim that it's an entrenched part of Chinese nature is laughable.

 

[ironman000]

The thing is, being "pro China" generally requires you to believe in various conspiracy theories to explain away China's lack of democracy or human rights.

human rights should be a concern, however when the USA/west stands up in front of the world to discuss human rights issues of the PRC, the USA itself should hold some dignity to make sure it has upholded the universal declaration of human rights itself. being a 2 faced hypocritical dumbshit deteriorates an argument.

Just once I'd like one of you demented fucks to acknowledge China's abysmal attitude to both human rights and democracy and hope for improvement in the future instead of trying to sweep it under the carpet.

i acknowledge china's abysmal attitude to human rights. however i will not acknowledge its abysmal attitude to democracy because democracy in certain western nations is a scam.

 

[Trefoil]

human rights should be a concern, however when the USA/west stands up in front of the world to discuss human rights issues of the PRC, the USA itself should hold some dignity to make sure it has upholded the universal declaration of human rights itself. being a 2 faced hypocritical dumbshit deteriorates an argument.

Pardon me? You come in here and proclaim that China doesn't need democracy because you don't like America, totally ignoring the scores of other countries around the world - Western, Oriental, Hispanic, etc which are successful democracies.

i acknowledge china's abysmal attitude to human rights. however i will not acknowledge its abysmal attitude to democracy because democracy in certain western nations is a scam.

So basically, because America is a democracy, and you hate America, you don't want China to become a democracy even though you acknowledge the abusive human rights record of their communist administration?

Something tells me your knowledge of democracy is rather limited.

 

[Enteebee]

There are flaws with China's elections just as there are with America's. Without being an expert on either I don't think I'd go claiming that one is really more democratic than the other... America certainly has great levels of freedom when it comes to for example free speech, but in other areas it's not exactly that much better than China afaik.

As for Obama closing Guantanamo, good on him... I am sure there will still be many human rights complaints under his watch, but we'll see.

They've had this stupid communist system for roughly 50 years. Any claim that it's an entrenched part of Chinese nature is laughable.

I'm not claiming it's a part of 'chinese nature'. I'm claiming it's likely in part a result of the makeup of the society which is extremely large, in many places very poor, in many places very different culturally etc.

It's like for instance Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia is a rather terrible regime which is for the most part propped up by the Americans. However you could argue that such a government is overall beneficial in that it stops say... competing warlords fighting etc (re: Saddam Hussein in Iraq).

 

[Trefoil]

There are flaws with China's elections just as there are with America's. Without being an expert on either I don't think I'd go claiming that one is really more democratic than the other.

*facepalm*

Are you even aware that China is a one-party state that bans political dissent? Have you been hiding under a rock or something?

 

[ironman000]

Pardon me? You come in here and proclaim that China doesn't need democracy because you don't like America, totally ignoring the scores of other countries around the world - Western, Oriental, Hispanic, etc which are successful democracies.



So basically, because America is a democracy, and you hate America, you don't want China to become a democracy even though you acknowledge the abusive human rights record of their communist administration?

Something tells me your knowledge of democracy is rather limited.

i dont hate the united states of america. i love what it stands for. however i do not like its actions. one must understand that if the Chinese people truly want 'democracy', then it is their right individually to obtain it without external forces playing a role. the second external forces start to play a role, those nations usually interfere for their benefit at the cost of the mass population.

 

[Enteebee]

China is effectively a 1 party state in that in practice it is the communist party who wields all the power.

However it's not like the US is an extremely free and open democracy for anyone to get into... Take for example the presidential election, for most people there was only a choice between 2 candidates (I suppose those who participated in the primaries of their respective parties had slightly more choice in a way), these 2 candidates had to spend billions of dollars on their campaigns funded by various corporations, lobbyists etc who obviously want to see a return on their investments.

How can someone outside of the two party structure really succeed and have much more power than the independents in China who are given a token appointment?

 

[Trefoil]

i dont hate the united states of america. i love what it stands for. however i do not like its actions. one must understand that if the Chinese people truly want 'democracy', then it is their right individually to obtain it without external forces playing a role. the second external forces start to play a role, those nations usually interfere for their benefit at the cost of the mass population.

You expect the Chinese to "individually obtain" democracy yet ever time they try the government punishes political dissent with labour camps, torture, and executions? Those things have been going on since the beginning of communism in China. Don't you dare try and explain them away as a response to a America.

I'd like to see you try and blame this on America, or try and justify it with "the Chinese people not truly wanting democracy".

 

[Trefoil]

China is effectively a 1 party state in that in practice it is the communist party who wields all the power.

No, it's a 1-party state because the law actively forbids any other parties from holding office.

However it's not like the US is an extremely free and open democracy for anyone to get into... Take for example the presidential election, for most people there was only a choice between 2 candidates (I suppose those who participated in the primaries of their respective parties had slightly more choice in a way), these 2 candidates had to spend billions of dollars on their campaigns funded by various corporations, lobbyists etc who obviously want to see a return on their investments.

How can someone outside of the two party structure really succeed and have much more power than the independents in China who are given a token appointment?

I'm sorry, exactly how do the failings of America's electoral system justify China's lack of democracy?

Honestly, your logic is pretty twisted man. Even conceding America's poor electoral system, I can't believe you equate a polarised two party state with a unipolar one party state. That's absolutely moronic.

 

[ironman000]

You expect the Chinese to "individually obtain" democracy yet ever time they try the government punishes political dissent with labour camps, torture, and executions? Those things have been going on since the beginning of communism in China. Don't you dare try and explain them away as a response to a America.

I'd like to see you try and blame this on America, or try and justify it with "the Chinese people not truly wanting democracy".

lets be honest, Tienanmen square or whatever the fuck that was, for all the blood that was spilled on that day and during those protests only represent a fraction of the Chinese population. we are looking at less that 0.15%.

id like to add onto what enterbee has already stated. the US federal election has reinforced what i have already believed to an extent and which is virtually true. that the lobbyist and corporations in Washington are undemocratic, private tyrannies. The ONLY legal accountability is to their shareholders, and by law in the united states, united kingdom and many other countries, corporations have to prioritise profit - even at the expense of anything else . We don't have to go through all the examples of the dire consequences of such a framework. for all your talk about American democracy, you are just being deluded. the democratic movement in the united states are 2 wings of the same party....the business party.

what the US and the UK like to euphemise as "capitalism" and the hierarchy of the nation state, both of which are against democracy, basically they bear tyranny, currently american and to an extent the rest of the western world is under the corporate tyranny.

US isn't really a democracy - It's given a technical term - corporate oligarchy.