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"Celebrity atheists expose their hypocrisy"- A really shitty article (1 Viewer)

Cookie182

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Celebrity atheists expose their hypocrisyDVIR ABRAMOVICH
October 26, 2009 Comments 212


The fundamentalism of the crop of celebrity atheists such as Christopher Hitchens betrays their cause, says Dvir Abramovich Photo: Ward O'Neill
A flurry of books bashing religion are making best-seller lists and grabbing a lot of attention — so much so that anti-religion publications seem to have become a lucrative genre all their own.

Works such as Christopher Hitchens' God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, Sam Harris' End of Faith, Michel Onfray's The Atheist Manifesto: The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam and Daniel Dennet's Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon are bare-knuckled, no-holds barred tracts that sometimes resemble the declarations of fundamentalists who are absolutely convinced of their truth.

Hitchens and Dawkins, who are the leaders of the New Atheism movement, have received the most media spotlight and are driving the growth of this industry. Hitchens presented recently at Sydney's Festival of Dangerous Ideas and appeared on ABC TV's Q & A program. And Dawkins will headline next year's Atheist Convention in Melbourne.

These atheists are angry that religion has not gone away and is thriving in various parts of the world. After all, calling other peoples' belief a delusion is not exactly respectful. Indeed, distinguished doctor and broadcaster Lord Winston found Dawkins' attitude to religious faith patronising, insulting and counterproductive, noting that it "portrays science in a bad light".

Hitchens and Dawkins build a straw man — they select the worst offences that have been done in the name of religion to prove that religion is a dangerous force and a kind of virus that infects the mind. At one point Hitchens writes, "Religious belief is not merely false but also actually harmful. But I think it is a mistake to condescend to those who claim 'faith'."

Employing a new name, Dawkins says atheists should refer to themselves as "brights" labelling the devout as "dyed-in-the-wool faith-heads" while Hitchens describes the religious mind as "literal and limited".

According to Hitchens (who discovered two years ago that he is Jewish by way of his mother) the Jews could have been the "carriers of philosophy instead of arid monotheism". What about Spinoza, Wittgenstein, Isaiah Berlin, Derrida, Maimonides, Emmanuel Levinas, Martin Buber, Karl Popper, Walter Benjamin and Ayn Rand to name only a few. Does it seem like Judaism is bereft of philosophers? He writes of kosher dietary laws: "In microcosm, this apparently trivial fetish shows how religion and faith and superstition distort our whole picture of the world."

So, the bottom line for these atheists is this: we are free to believe in whatever as long as it's not God.

For Hitchens and co, religion does little good and secularism hardly any evil. Never mind that tyrants devoid of religion such as Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao and Pol Pot perpetrated the worst atrocities in history. As H. Allen Orr, professor of biology at the University of Rochester, observed, the 20th century was an experiment in secularism that produced secular evil, responsible for the unprecedented murder of more than 100 million.

Dawkins is mute on the terrors unleashed by science and technology, used by genocidal regimes such as Hitler's Germany, in a century that proved to be the worst tyranny mankind has ever seen. And what about weapons of mass destruction such as nuclear and biological bombs developed by scientists?

Does that mean that all atheists and scientists are evil? Of course not. The point is that fanatics can be found in both religion and atheism.

How can anyone argue that not a single human benefit has resulted from religious faith? There are millions who every day selflessly dedicate their lives to helping others all in the name of religious belief. The cruelty and viciousness of the past and the abuse of religion in the present cannot extinguish the solidarity and good-heartedness of people of faith.

Most would agree with the words of former atheist, Oxford University professor of historical theology Alister McGrath, who said: "There are some forms of religion that are pathological, that damage people. For every one of these atrocities, which must cause all of us deep concern, there are 10,000 unreported acts of kindness, generosity, and so forth arising from religious commitment."

True religious values are grounded in notions of community, charity, mercy and peace. All too often today we focus on individualism, greed and instant gratification.

Anyone wishing to discredit theology should at least know some. The God Delusion contains very little examination of Jewish theology and dismisses the finest minds of Western thinkers and theologians who have written on sublime theological questions as "infantile".

Hitchens cites the Binding of Isaac and "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" injunction as brutish and stupid. Yet, scholars have interpreted the binding as ending child sacrifice and the injunction as a caution against excessive vengeance. Hitchens says that the God of Moses never refers to compassion and human friendship, overlooking "love your neighbour as yourself".

For his part, Dawkins is clearly out of his depth when it comes to Jewish teachings and ethics. He claims, for instance, that "love thy neighbour" meant only "love another Jew". He apparently is not aware that in the same chapter, Jews are commanded to love the stranger that lives in their land as they would themselves. When Jesus, himself a Jew, was asked "Who is my neighbour" he did not refer to other Jews, but to a Samaritan, considered at that time as heretical and unclean.

Above all, for Dawkins and his contemporaries, billions of people across the globe have accepted stupid and harmful ideas.

Yet that iconic scientist Einstein, believed that God represented a great mind that sustained the laws of nature. We know for sure that he was not stupid or delusional. He famously remarked, "God doesn't play with the universe" and noted, when referring to the extraordinary intricacies of the universe: "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science." Einstein believed that a humble, open-ended religious attitude to the cosmos was preferable to a completely non-religious approach.

Consider also that in A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking ends his brilliant book (which sold more than 8 million copies) with the following: "If we discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable by everyone, not just by a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we should know the mind of God."

Dawkins and Hitchens assume all believers accept the Bible literally, which in the case of the majority of Jews and other co-religionists, has never been true. Theologians have often questioned institutional religion and have criticised the use of rigid orthodoxy and demagoguery to instill fear and obedience. In fact, most who embrace religious faith at the same time also exercise a healthy dose of skepticism and do not defend the way religion is often manipulated and distorted. Very few follow religion blindly.

The telescope and the microscope that Hitchens says has made religion redundant, does not answer for us why we are here and what is the purpose of human existence. Atoms and black holes leave little space for expounding on the measure of man, sin, holiness, dignity and the human spirit, sorrow, beauty, love, alienation and mortality.

Dr Owen Anderson, professor of philosophy at Arizona State University, says the problem with the argument promoted by Hitchens and Dawkins when he asks: "Can all reality be explained as atoms in motion? Is belief in something besides atoms mere superstition?"

Tina Beatie in her book The New Atheists: The Twilight of Reason and the War of Religion maintains that atheists are engaged in religious belief themselves because naturalists as authors such as Dawkins and Hitchens use their own beliefs to invest their life with meaning. Ironic, isn't it?

Lord Winston agrees: "Think there is a body of scientific opinion from my scientific colleagues who seem to believe that science is the absolute truth and that religious and spiritual values are to be discounted.

"Some people, both scientists and religious people, deal with uncertainty by being certain. That is dangerous in the fundamentalists and it is dangerous in the fundamentalist scientists."

One has to concede that a something inexplicably mysterious took place at the birth of the universe. I read that several years ago, astronomers working with NASA concluded that time began 13.7 billion years ago, a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. At that instant, the universe expanded from "submicroscopic to astronomical size in the blink of an eye". The great mystery is why it would want to do that. Thomas Nagel, the philosopher notes that even if we accept evolution and that the necessary seed material was present at the time of the Big Bang, there is no scientific theory as to why the material existed in the first place, and how did such material come into existence.

All we have done is to keep pushing the great question one step back. World-renowned physicist Stephen Hawking put it best, "Why does the universe go to the bother of existing?"

Many would identify with the father who's compelled to believe in the divine when he notices the beauty and perfection of his daughter's ears. Hitchens mocks him, pointing out that ears always need a clean out, are mass-produced and cats have lovelier ears. A moment of pure love is missed.

Dawkins claims that religion is a form of child abuse since parents teach their kids to believe in certain religious creeds. Is it fair to compare real child abuse with parents instilling in their children religious morals and codes?

Dawkins and Hitchens celebrate art over religion, forgetting that the wonder and mystery of the universe and God's role in it have provided inspiration for countless artists. Michelangelo's Creation of Adam paintings at the Sistine Chapel is only one such example.

Dawkins remarks that the human brain is a "design nightmare". Well, since we use that organ to contemplate these and other complex subjects, it can't be that badly designed.

In his introduction to The God Delusion Dawkins states: "If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put if down."

I wonder for how many readers this is true.

Dr Dvir Abramovich, the Jan Randa Senior Lecturer in Jewish Studies is director of the Centre for Jewish History and Culture at The University of Melbourne. He is editor of the Australian Journal of Jewish Studies and President of the Australian Association of Jewish Studies. He is co-editor of the book Testifying to the Holocaust published in 2008.
The stock standard bite back at "new age atheism"- full of misinformation, misconceptions and most importantly misrepresentations.

Is there not any irony that the outrightly Jewish author who fears the unleashing of the "evils" of science and technology, linking atheism incorrectly to Hitler and the 20th centuries "greatest tragedies" also represents an ideology which has founded a nation through violent militantism (Israeli army) utilising advanced white phosphorous weapons on Palestinians? Did religion (in all its goodness) kick in here and stop the use of scientific advancements for evil?

LOL too, Ayn Rand =atheist, Wittgenstein, from memory a protestant Christian...

Poor research, poor attack.
 

SurferNerd

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This author is an idiot and only further advances the main argument against religious apologists.

Hitler for the 50 000th time was not an atheist. "Mein Kampf" speaks about the universal "creator", one who viewed the Aryan race as "chosen by God"- it was a sin to dilute it Hitler thought. In essence, Nazism showed the very sociological signs of religious fundamentalism, Hitler being the "father" of the people, "saving Germany" from 'sin' in this case.

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will." (Adolf Hitler)

Raised a Catholic.

Also, I'm very sick of the argument that "religion does a lot of good". Lets just give our selves credit- "Humans do a lot of good" (by any definition of 'good').

Religious amplification leads to egoism and self-indulgence- a license to be extreme.
 

David Spade

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hahahahahaha

would love the see Hitchens response to such shit
 

Jack Burton

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people still have no right to go and attack people and say their beliefs are wrong you have to respect them, even if you dont believe them. i personally dont believe in a god but im not going to attack people who do... this guy is wanker. there are many religious fanatics as well as atheist fanatics that have killed thousands of people.

i think its simple let people can believe what they want to believe as long as you dont force your beliefs onto someone else.
 

David Spade

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to think that the arguments of the likes of hitchens centers on the lives that have been lost in wars fought over religion is fucking retarded.


what if your beliefs are harmful to others? then should your beliefs not be questioned?
 

SurferNerd

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people still have no right to go and attack people and say their beliefs are wrong you have to respect them, even if you dont believe them. i personally dont believe in a god but im not going to attack people who do... this guy is wanker. there are many religious fanatics as well as atheist fanatics that have killed thousands of people.

i think its simple let people can believe what they want to believe as long as you dont force your beliefs onto someone else.
At a governmental level you just defined secularism.

Do note though, you are dangerously oversimplifying the religious (or any non-religious cause). There are billions in the world who hold an ideology that they DO want to spread and instill. If it is an attack at all its aimed primarily at totalitarianism- eg we would of attacked the Stalinist ideology in its day, we attack N Korea and we attack fundamentalist religiosity. The word "attack" though is not very clearly definied.

I submit to you, go live in Saudi Arabia with this simple philosophy of just pursuing your own beliefs- my guess is you will get an oppressing shock.

Also are you advocating that we don't challenge thought or engage in philosophical/political debate in regards to lifes most pertinent questions?

Why should religion be exempt from criticism? It makes extremely large claims for itself which extend to not only knowing the holistic truth about the universe but also a source of fundamental moral codes and the future fate of our species. This idea needs to be critically examined as oppossed to "respected and left be". The only respect should be that base line respect that both debators should show towards each other as human beings- not based on any religious disposition.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"- Carl Sagan.
 
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SurferNerd

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to think that the arguments of the likes of hitchens centers on the lives that have been lost in wars fought over religion is fucking retarded.


what if your beliefs are harmful to others? then should your beliefs not be questioned?
Hitchens is far smarter then this article portrays.

He takes a "macro" level look at what the Biblical outlook really is- example for ~97 000 Heaven sat still and watched us kill each other and then finally intervened in a remote part of the desert to spread the final world only 2000 yrs ago.

Humorous but very engaging.
 

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LOL too, Ayn Rand =atheist, Wittgenstein, from memory a protestant Christian...
From an orthodox perspective they would both be labelled Jewish (i.e. by matrilineal descent).
 

KFunk

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Also, I find myself agreeing with Lord Winston (who I should note is also a Jew):

Lord Winston agrees: "Think there is a body of scientific opinion from my scientific colleagues who seem to believe that science is the absolute truth and that religious and spiritual values are to be discounted.

"Some people, both scientists and religious people, deal with uncertainty by being certain. That is dangerous in the fundamentalists and it is dangerous in the fundamentalist scientists."
 

mirakon

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I think it's virtually impossible for atheists or theists to ever prove each other wrong, those attempting to 'prove' atheism with science are really wasting their time. In a universe beyond space and time (before the Big Bang) science simply has no relevance.

I think religious fanatics are stupid, but extreme atheists are probably just as bad. Lord Winston is indeed correct.
 

morning storm

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i love the accusation of hitchens + dawkins creating strawmen. the article then goes on to say "Dawkins and Hitchens assume all believers accept the Bible literally..."

such poor and lazy journalism.

the most basic thing that strikes a chord with me however is the way he portrays atheism as equally or more guilty than religion because of the assertive and headstrong way it spreads its message. by doing this it seems he tries to escape addressing the central issue of debate (which dawkins and hitchens invariably prove insurmountable) focussed on which side is actually right.

he brushes this off by quickly referencing the beginning of time, and a philosopher, to make it seem unclear and as if its 50/50 on which side is right.

im also inclined to believe that the heated discussion on which side has done more harm or good on the world is always a little beside the point. it is the accusation that the average church goer is deluded, not whther they are compassionate, that is the true point of debate.
 
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Hmm. I seem to be in the minority here, but I liked the article. It raised some good points.
 
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im also inclined to believe that the heated discussion on which side has done more harm or good on the world is always a little beside the point. it is the accusation that the average church goer is deluded, not whther they are compassionate, that is the true point of debate.
Imo, that is precisely what is wrong with the entire argument. Each side trying to 'prove' the other side wrong and themselves right. Ultimately, who cares if someone is deluded or not? What is the point of trying to prove it? If they are compassionate, surely that matters more than the fact that they are religious? As I said in a previous post:

I think that both secularism and humanism are extremely important but I don't think that the application of a secular position to humanism is necessarily inherently superior to other positions. In my opinion, humanism, in that it 'attaches importance to human dignity, concerns, and capabilities, particularly rationality' is crucial. However, I believe that it doesn't matter whether this belief comes from religious reasoning, e.g. 'That we should value other humans because God has given this humanity to all of us, therefore, it would rationally follow that acknowledging shared humanity is crucial' or that it comes from secular reasoning, e.g. 'That we should value all humans equally because we are all human'. In the end, if different perspectives lead to the same, positive conclusion, i.e. that the most important thing is to value humans as possessing inherent worth and equality, then it shouldn't matter whether that perspective is secular or religious.
Humanism can be a philosophy that all can have. The atheist/religious debate is one that has long since become too polarised to have any worth, with neither side willing to budge, and each making sweeping (and in many cases unfair) generalisations about the other.
 
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John McCain

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Nothing worse than when anyone, on either side cites einstein, hawking to support their position on religion.

It's like asking the pope about his opinion on special relativity.
 

Iron

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This author is an idiot and only further advances the main argument against religious apologists.

Hitler for the 50 000th time was not an atheist. "Mein Kampf" speaks about the universal "creator", one who viewed the Aryan race as "chosen by God"- it was a sin to dilute it Hitler thought. In essence, Nazism showed the very sociological signs of religious fundamentalism, Hitler being the "father" of the people, "saving Germany" from 'sin' in this case.

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will." (Adolf Hitler)

Raised a Catholic.

Also, I'm very sick of the argument that "religion does a lot of good". Lets just give our selves credit- "Humans do a lot of good" (by any definition of 'good').

Religious amplification leads to egoism and self-indulgence- a license to be extreme.
Makes no sense to isolate the belief of one mad man and then claim that all belief is therefore wrong, k? Hitler may have believes that Christ was an anti-Jewish figure whose only message was violent punishment of the Jews, but no credible Church faithful to the scriptures would dream of pushing this.
Satan believes in God for crying out loud m8
 
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jules.09

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The stock standard bite back at "new age atheism"- full of misinformation, misconceptions and most importantly misrepresentations...

Poor research, poor attack.
Yes, this article did little more than cite well known persons from the arts, science etc. and portrayed them as a collective representation of a religion and its adherents.

The most annoying argument is that secularism has been exalted as a religion in itself, rather than the absence of, and Hitler, Pol Pot and other megalomaniacs. Anyway, the values allegedly professed by world religions, such as love, compassion, justice etc. are secular values anyway, i.e. common to everyone regardless of individual creed.
 

SylviaB

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Hitler may have been only one man, but what do you think those soldiers throwing jews into the gas chambers believed in?
 

Serius

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people still have no right to go and attack people and say their beliefs are wrong you have to respect them, even if you dont believe them. i personally dont believe in a god but im not going to attack people who do... this guy is wanker. there are many religious fanatics as well as atheist fanatics that have killed thousands of people.

i think its simple let people can believe what they want to believe as long as you dont force your beliefs onto someone else.
Why not? You will laugh about people believing in ghosts, fairies, you will laugh with me about the crazy man who lives under the overpass and rants about the CIA listening to his thoughts, but when it comes to beliefs specifically about religion we have to be respectful?

Why is that? dawkins is perfectly correct when he says religious beliefs are delusional. A delusion is choosing to believe in something when no evidence at all suggests that is the case. A man might beleive his neighbours are spying on him and that the FBI are out to get him, if he has no evidence of that its just a crazyman delusion.

A theological belief is more more immune to criticism than any other. The difference is, those people have nothing to back up their belief, no reason at all to believe it, yet they do. They get angry when you point that out. Nobody likes to have their ignorance and stupidity pointed out i guess. Its still ok to do it with plenty of other stuff though.
 

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