Can I Believe In God In My Own Way? (2 Viewers)

[hiphophorray123]

As far as I know, all you need to do is ask for forgiveness once before you die and really mean it and you will be forgiven and go to heaven. So I guess you can do whatever you like. But if you are just going to make up your own rules you are not really christian, so don't call yourself one.

'as far as i know' do you mean 'as far as i have been told by people who haven't died and came back to life before'

 

[inasero]

You're right (as usual). Besides, the Bible wasn't written the day Jesus was resurrected. It was passed down by oral tradition for some time afterwards, which meant that it was quite easy for the actual events to become slightly distorted - look at the calendar for example: a slight mistake in calculations means that Jesus was born in 4BC; Jesus' birth is credited as December 25 because no-one actually knew the real date. And since that was 2005 years ago, it's not entirely impossible that the tiny distortions have been continuing. And besides, in today's society believing in the "true" religion just doesn't cut it. The world is so much smaller and we're so much more exposed to other religions and people and the like that it's impossible for a religion to have stayed exactly the same for over two millenia.

That's not true. Scholars (historical as well as biblical) unanimously agree that the Bible recorded the events of Jesus' death with great consistency and reliability. Plus it is written in the scriptures:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16) as well as;

"And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others" (2 Timothy 2:2)

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born
" (1 Cornithians 15 3:8)

So my argument being thus:
1. The Bible says that these events happened so they must be true. Many non-Christians were witness to the events including the Roman historian Josephus
2. It's not circular logic saying that the Bible confirms something happening in the Bible as true because God would not have allowed the 66 books of the Bible to become canonized if they weren't useful for "teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" in the first place.

Plus Argonaut you say that the event could have become distorted- as in Chinese Whispers perhaps. It's true that no history is without its sociopolitical agenda(s) but where there are hundreds of eyewitness accounts surely something like this has a mere seed of validity (unless everyone was having a simultaneous mass hallucination). Finally, people tend not to forget things as significant as this, much less saying a person rose from the dead when it didn't happen.

 

[katie_tully]

Can religion be fluid? Or am I going to hell?

Just do what you want. Who follows the Bible down to every exact word these days anyway? If you believe in God, but aren't a fundamentalist, who's to say you're going to hell? A staunch Christian? Bahaha, they've been brainwashed to the hilt my inner child friend.

If it makes you happy, make your religious views as fluid as running water

 

[inasero]

I'm a bit irritated at the moment. I spoke to this girl and she told me that I'm not a real christian because I have friends who are gay, I don't go to church, I've hurt my parents because I moved out (ie, thou shall honour thy mother and father) and that my boyfriend and I get interesting every now and then.

sorry for getting sidetracked yes to answer your question ur_inner_child:

I'm sorry that you had this bad experience with your friend. Nobody can tell you for sure who is a real christian or not because that's up to God to decide. You will find that there are many Christians out there who have a fire-and-brimstone, Old Testament way of looking at things and if you were living in the old testament times (im talking about ancient, thousands of years ago) quite possibly she could be right.

So before I delve into deeper concepts I just want to share with you a bit about what savation is.

Basically we were all made in God's image by God and were meant to enjoy life in the Garden of Eden. Now as you probably know Adam took a bite from an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (which Eve gave him) so thereby causing sin (rebellion against God's rule) to enter the world and condemning all humankind. So from a strictly Old Testament persective no-one is truly worthy of salvation (being saved from our sin and going to Heaven).

So in the OT times the way to *try* to become righteous with God (acceptable in His sight) was to offer sacrifices at a temple and try to live a holy life in accordance with the Ten Commandments. Notice how this puts the onus on ourselves for our own salvation.

But in New Testament times, God sent Jesus to Earth for two reasons:
1. To experience what it was like for humans to be tempted by sin
2. More importantly, to be the equivalent of that sacrifice in the OT times so that everybody who believed in Jesus could become righteous with God.

A verse from the Bible which I want to share with you is this "But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8)

So even though nobody relly deserves to be saved, God took the initiative to restore people to a proper relationship with him.

This doesn't mean tha Christians are any better people than non-Christians. In fact, Christians are still prone to sinning and have these weaknesses. The only difference is that Christians know their sins will be wiped away every time and have a 100% assurance of going to Heaven.

So really, Christians are not saved because of what they do but for what God has done for them. Nothing we do can make God love us more and nothing we do can make God love us any less.

In the NT you will find that God loved everyone (in fact if there were openly homosexual people in those times Jesus would have accepted them with open arms). He associated with "tax collectors", and "sinners" and prostitutes and whores. Having gay friends does not make you any less acceptable in God's eyes. In fact, God encourages His believers to accept everyone unquestiongly.

As for going to church, Christians think it is important to worship God and understand Him more but it's not essential. After all, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27)

As for moving out of your home I can't say because I don't know about your circumstances. And even though pre-marital sex is discouraged in the Old Testament God won't love you any less because of it.

In fact, the only way for one to go to Heaven is to acknowledge and confess that you are an inherently sinful person and then accept Jesus into your life knowing that He has died for your sins. We don't go to Heaven by leading Godly lives and observing the Sabbath.

So in answering your question, churches in a modern day and age have to deal with changing shifts in societal attitudes and expectations. Premarital sex is considered wrong as is homosexuality but that doesnt mean that Churches should be running a closed shop. Just because they warmly invite sinners to Church it does not mean that they have to necessarily agree with the ideas and attitudes of that sinner. We as Christians should not "conform to the ways of this world" but accept everyone lovingly just as God accepted us.

 

[neo o]

i'll see you there.

No you won't, hell is just as real as heaven, i.e. it's a delusion. Anything less than believing in yourself is weakness - religion is just a way of placing the responsibility of your own actions or inactions upon a higher power.

Though, I suppose to a Christian I'm the perfect candidate for hell.

- I don't believe that people are equal.
- I'm happily selfish when I choose to be.
- I'm honest.
- I'm an individual - and I'll mow down whatever gets in my way.

 

[inasero]

okok maybe you're right but the Gospel (message of Salvation) doesn't rest on the minor details. What does it matter if Jesus died in a Roman prison or on a cross in Golgotha? What does it matter if the nails were driven into his palm instead of his wrist? These are trivial matters which are missing the driving idea of the bigger picture.

 

[katie_tully]

That said inner, the person you were talking to sounds like a psychotic religious fundamentalist and I wouldn't have paid attention to a word she said.


...Goes back to her atheist hole.

 

[inasero]

yep shes VERY fundamentalist...giving the Church a bad name

 

[withoutaface]

I'm a bit irritated at the moment. I spoke to this girl and she told me that I'm not a real christian because I have friends who are gay, I don't go to church, I've hurt my parents because I moved out (ie, thou shall honour thy mother and father) and that my boyfriend and I get interesting every now and then.

This coming from a girl who believes in Adam and Eve literally. Which I don't. I thought it was more of the meaning that comes out of it - the fact that representing the start of the human race as two people meant that God created us ALL, and that we should treat each other like family, not literally blood related.

I don't want this to be a discussion about whether God exists, but whether or not religion can or should be accepted as more or less fluid.

I cannot believe that after so many translations, so many changes of the Bible - and so many changes in societal values, that one can actually "truly" worship the "original" religion.

Can religion be fluid? Or am I going to hell?

I think that so long as your intentions are good and you're not really hurting anyone else by living the way that you are, that God appreciates you just as much as he would a regular Christian who attends Church every Sunday etc.

 

[HellVeN]

Hahaha, you religious people are all so pathetic. Heaven and hell, that's the lamest thing I've ever heard. Good thing I've never believed in all those lame stories. Even santa is more credible than that god bs.

Nothing
You are born.
You live.
You die.
Nothing.

Being dead is just like before you were born - nothingness.


Also, the thread poster is pathetic. You believe what you want, and if someone doesn't agree with that well you can tell them to go fuck themselves. They can't make you believe anything, you're the one who thinks for yourself. And if you give up your thoughts and beliefs so easily then you're just a weak person in my opninion.

Believe what you want to believe.

 

[inasero]

I'm not going to stop you from beliveing what you want HellVen but let me ask- haven't you ever thought there was more to life than being born, living and then dying?

 

[neo o]

There is sex, sex is pretty cool and it doesn't seem right to just lump it in with living. Besides Inasero, assuming there is such a thing as a soul, Christians sell it for immortality. Now isn't that foul or what?

 

[stamos]

"I'm a bit irritated at the moment. I spoke to this girl and she told me that I'm not a real christian because I have friends who are gay"

didn't jesus hang out with corrupt tax collectors and sinners all the time?

 

[Poon-Tang]

Hahaha, you religious people are all so pathetic. Heaven and hell, that's the lamest thing I've ever heard. Good thing I've never believed in all those lame stories. Even santa is more credible than that god bs.

Nothing
You are born.
You live.
You die.
Nothing.

Being dead is just like before you were born - nothingness.


Also, the thread poster is pathetic. You believe what you want, and if someone doesn't agree with that well you can tell them to go fuck themselves. They can't make you believe anything, you're the one who thinks for yourself. And if you give up your thoughts and beliefs so easily then you're just a weak person in my opninion.

Believe what you want to believe.

Yeah, you’re a smart one, because seeing as you think my views on religion are stupid and un-credible and you don’t agree with them, I can tell you to go fuck yourself?
Look I really don’t care what you think, but saying Santa is more believable than God is really a big call, I mean on this planet there is a need for God, there is no need for santa. If you explain how the universe was created (explain how that single atom that combusted into the universe was there.) If you explain to me that, I’ll believe you. If you can’t, your beliefs are more fucked than mine, because at least with mine I can grasp every concept on this forsaken planet.

 

[chookyn]

sorry for getting sidetracked yes to answer your question ur_inner_child:

I'm sorry that you had this bad experience with your friend. Nobody can tell you for sure who is a real christian or not because that's up to God to decide. You will find that there are many Christians out there who have a fire-and-brimstone, Old Testament way of looking at things and if you were living in the old testament times (im talking about ancient, thousands of years ago) quite possibly she could be right.

So before I delve into deeper concepts I just want to share with you a bit about what savation is.

Basically we were all made in God's image by God and were meant to enjoy life in the Garden of Eden. Now as you probably know Adam took a bite from an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (which Eve gave him) so thereby causing sin (rebellion against God's rule) to enter the world and condemning all humankind. So from a strictly Old Testament persective no-one is truly worthy of salvation (being saved from our sin and going to Heaven).

So in the OT times the way to *try* to become righteous with God (acceptable in His sight) was to offer sacrifices at a temple and try to live a holy life in accordance with the Ten Commandments. Notice how this puts the onus on ourselves for our own salvation.

But in New Testament times, God sent Jesus to Earth for two reasons:
1. To experience what it was like for humans to be tempted by sin
2. More importantly, to be the equivalent of that sacrifice in the OT times so that everybody who believed in Jesus could become righteous with God.

A verse from the Bible which I want to share with you is this "But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8)

So even though nobody relly deserves to be saved, God took the initiative to restore people to a proper relationship with him.

This doesn't mean tha Christians are any better people than non-Christians. In fact, Christians are still prone to sinning and have these weaknesses. The only difference is that Christians know their sins will be wiped away every time and have a 100% assurance of going to Heaven.

So really, Christians are not saved because of what they do but for what God has done for them. Nothing we do can make God love us more and nothing we do can make God love us any less.

In the NT you will find that God loved everyone (in fact if there were openly homosexual people in those times Jesus would have accepted them with open arms). He associated with "tax collectors", and "sinners" and prostitutes and whores. Having gay friends does not make you any less acceptable in God's eyes. In fact, God encourages His believers to accept everyone unquestiongly.

As for going to church, Christians think it is important to worship God and understand Him more but it's not essential. After all, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27)

As for moving out of your home I can't say because I don't know about your circumstances. And even though pre-marital sex is discouraged in the Old Testament God won't love you any less because of it.

In fact, the only way for one to go to Heaven is to acknowledge and confess that you are an inherently sinful person and then accept Jesus into your life knowing that He has died for your sins. We don't go to Heaven by leading Godly lives and observing the Sabbath.

So in answering your question, churches in a modern day and age have to deal with changing shifts in societal attitudes and expectations. Premarital sex is considered wrong as is homosexuality but that doesnt mean that Churches should be running a closed shop. Just because they warmly invite sinners to Church it does not mean that they have to necessarily agree with the ideas and attitudes of that sinner. We as Christians should not "conform to the ways of this world" but accept everyone lovingly just as God accepted us.

^ amen!!

Church is commonly (and wrongly) perceived to be burdensome and dull. I love my church here at college. It's alive and exciting (not in the hillsong sense) but because there's so many youth and so much variety.

True, some churches are dead boring, but if you find the right one it could well be the best thing that ever happened to you! Church is there to help you to grow and get involved in a community of believers. Plus it's a great place to make networks of friends. It's just a matter of finding the right church for you.

Being Christian who doesn't go to church is sort-of like being a uni student who never attends uni. What are you going to learn? How are you going to grow and make like-minded friends? When times get tough, who's there to encourage you?

All Christians - the worldwide 'body' of believers are like one big family - with God as the head of the family. Sure, it's a bit of a mixed bag of personalities, but it's nice to have a reunion and catch up every week.

 

[Poon-Tang]

There is sex, sex is pretty cool and it doesn't seem right to just lump it in with living. Besides Inasero, assuming there is such a thing as a soul, Christians sell it for immortality. Now isn't that foul or what?

We dont sell our soul, we let jesus into our heart, and then because he's there we want to do what is right (therefore we do what we want to do) and God did create sex for us, we just misuse it all the time (because he made it as something special between a man and a woman who have made the commitment to be together for the rest of their earthly lives.)
So there are actually ways for God to feel good about you having sex.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I'm a bit irritated at the moment. I spoke to this girl and she told me that I'm not a real christian because I have friends who are gay, I don't go to church, I've hurt my parents because I moved out (ie, thou shall honour thy mother and father) and that my boyfriend and I get interesting every now and then.

lol nice description

I will expand on Generator's point: religion and religious institutions are different.

Firstly, I would say that religious institutions are not appropriate sources of finding truth. However, if you have affiliations with these groups and have come to believe some of their thinking, but have your own ideas on some respects, you are ultimately being a "smart Christian." It would be blind folly to accept without question everything a religion says. For you to have differing views based on your own perceptions and reasoning then I say well done. A lot of Christians aren't able to detach themselves from the ideas that have been entrenched into them from an early age.

People like you piss me off. Either you are in or you are out. You can't sit on the fence, take out the parts that aren't convinient for you but still cover your bases in case you die. It's 100% or don't even bother.

This is a very naive proposition. It assumes that what is prescribed by Christianity as a religion (which differs anyway between denominations) is ALL TRUE. Is it not conceivable that part, even a very small part, may be false? To answer "no" means you are incapable of questioning your own faith, and hence, a sheep. But if you answer "yes," as most rational Christians will do, then is it not possible that IF a normative part of the faith may not be true, and IF an individual, through reason or some other method has strong reasons to believe it is not true, then it would be reasonable to reject or sever part of the faith in order to adhere to a more accurate truth of your religion?

 

[Poon-Tang]

"I'm a bit irritated at the moment. I spoke to this girl and she told me that I'm not a real christian because I have friends who are gay"

didn't jesus hang out with corrupt tax collectors and sinners all the time?

He did, and that’s were I think a lot of Christian leaders have lost their way. They get caught up in the thought of judgment that they are really afraid of sin, they forget about evangelism when Jesus has showed us you can talk to those people without actually doing what they do. I'm saying they all do, I’ve just been around a few Christian leaders who seem like they have lost touch with the outside world.

Anyway, I think if Jesus was around today he would be preaching to people in the Gay Bars, the people who feel the church can’t help them because of their sexuality. But what they don’t know is being homo is just like every other sin and Jesus death on the cross has conquered that. So its extremely possible for gay people to be Christians, they just have to know that what they are doing is wrong and try to change it. But homosexuality is like every other sin.

 

[Comrade nathan]

. If you explain how the universe was created (explain how that single atom that combusted into the universe was there.) If you explain to me that, I’ll believe you. If you can’t, your beliefs are more fucked than mine, because at least with mine I can grasp every concept on this forsaken planet

So you believe in god because not yet a more clear and precise theory that you can understand has been developed? This is the same mentality that people use when they can't understand science, they jump to the conclusion of god.

There is alot more to being a atheist or a theist then knowng or not knowing the creation of the universe.

 

[Korn]

Of course you can have ur own interpretations of religion, im not sure if the organised religions chief body accepts it however