Bring back the draft, cries Young ALP (2 Viewers)

[leetom]

Government bodies are even less incorruptible.

Government bodies with a Liberal minister at the helm, perhaps. Men and women of Labor principle however arn't motivated by an ideology which indirectly encourages corruption. And besides, Governments are called into account every three years whereas employers rule their busninesses unchecked without government intervention.

Of course in many situations government must influence wage determination, however in many instances, such as situations where there is a shortage of labour, market forces will yield the greatest result for the worker. Presently, we have a situation which is very close to this scenario and hence why a progression towards greater market based wage determination in certain areas will produce greater beneifts for workers in these fields.

It's a plausible theory but market conditions fluxuate, and we can't have a group of workers being thrown on the scrap heap just because an employer reckons market conditions give him reason to do so. Workers are entitled to stability, which can only be ensured with wage levels fixed by a government for industries across the board.

"Anoying contributer", is that what you call people who don't spout the same politically correct nonsense as you?

What is it with your sort and your indefatigable accusations of PC? I'm not automatically PC because I take the time to define things properly. I mean, do you even know what political correctness is? I find you an annoying contributer because of the incessant flapping of the flag in your sig.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Leetom... the way you talk about men of 'Labor principle' is so pathetic.

 

[Jiga]

Leetom... the way you talk about men of 'Labor principle' is so pathetic.

Amen

 

[leetom]

Leetom... the way you talk about men of 'Labor principle' is so pathetic.

I'm sorry you don't have any faith in your party.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well not this kind of blind, fanatical faith... no. The people I usually hear talking about how their government leaders are infallable are fascists.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

I find you an annoying contributer because of the incessant flapping of the flag in your sig.

As if you don't love my flag signature.

 

[Jiga]

"Anoying contributer", is that what you call people who don't spout the same politically correct nonsense as you?

I was going to say the EXACT same thing!

find you an annoying contributer because of the incessant flapping of the flag in your sig.

Does the Australian flag and all it represents really annoy you leetom? :jaw:

 

[erawamai]

Does the Australian flag and all it represents really annoy you leetom? :jaw:

It probably annoys him because someone likes to spurt racism out and hide behind the Australian flag while doing it.

I feel less of a liking of the Australian flag mainly because some people like to spurt out racism and hide behind the flag and their personal interpretation of nationalism. It's also become harder to like the flag especially when it is used by neo nazi's to justify racism and race riots.

In any event its just a conceived flag. Anyone who derives much of their nationalistic feeling from a composed flag doesn't have much insight into nationalism itself. Kind of like people who fly the flag out the front of their houses. What does it prove? That you are more nationalistic that I? Is nationalism even a good thing? In relality nationalism is just a socialist tool of opression used to control the minds of the masses. Anyone with any kind of independent thought is usually not so strongly nationalistic. Mainly because anyone who can think knows that nationalism isn't vitially important to their personal wellbeing.

 

[Jiga]

I feel less of a liking of the Australian flag mainly because racists and neo nazi's seem to have claimed it as their own.

You are kidding! Lets just forget about everything the Aussie flag stands for because of one day of racist attacks...... kinda small minded dont you think? And neo nazi's etc havent claimed it all, what has lead you to believe that crap?

 

[erawamai]

You are kidding! Lets just forget about everything the Aussie flag stands for because of one day of racist attacks...... kinda small minded dont you think? And neo nazi's etc havent claimed it all, what has lead you to believe that crap?

Would you like the flag if the Australian socialists used it at every opportunity to advance their cause? Or even mathmite who puts a big Aussie flag in his signature and then proceedes to spout off racism and then call it nationalism. Nationalism has nothing to do with race. Unless of course someone wants to define nationalism by race. But if that person were to do so it would be overtly racist.

...in any event what does the Australian flag stand for that pings you deep down in your nationalistic heart? Many of the people in Australia probably don't know what it means...and if they do know what it stands for they probably don't understand how those things work either. Ask an average nationalistic Australian about the ins and outs of federation. Most wouldn't have a clue.

 

[Generator]

Would you like the flag if the Australian socialists used it at every opportunity to advance their cause? Or even mathmite who puts a big Aussie flag in his signature and then proceedes to spout off racism and then call it nationalism. Nationalism has nothing to do with race. Unless of course someone wants to define nationalism by race. But if that person were to do so it would be overtly racist.

...in any event what does the Australian flag stand for that pings you deep down in your nationalistic heart? Many of the people in Australia probably don't know what it means...and if they do know what it stands for they probably don't understand how those things work either. Ask an average nationalistic Australian about the ins and outs of federation. Most wouldn't have a clue.

Most people would be appalled at what consider to be an abuse of the flag, not the flag itself, iamaware.

You of all people should know that a flag is nothing more than a symbol and that symbols mean many different things to different people, no matter the original meaning that is still evident to those with some idea as to what the flag and its various components (the federation star, the southern cross and the union jack) actually represent.

At times you are far more ignorant than you clearly consider yourself to be, iamaware. That, or you are just an elitist who is unwilling to make such an admission. For the record, I consider myself to be an elitist (one who is often ignorant, too), but unlike you I don't shy away from such a fact.

 

[erawamai]

Most people would be appalled at what consider to be an abuse of the flag, not the flag itself, iamaware.

For those who use it in such a way they feel that they are subjectivly using it appropriately.

You of all people should know that a flag is nothing more than a symbol and that symbols mean many different things to different people, no matter the original meaning that is still evident to those with some idea as to what the flag and its various components (the federation star, the southern cross and the union jack) actually represent.

While I may know what something stands for popular perception rules what other people think about it. And you only fly a flag for other people to see.

The swastika was not originally a bad thing...popular culture went and hijacked it's meaning. It's starting to do it with the Aussie flag. If the Aussie flag become associaited with racism then I wouldn't like it.

At times you are far more ignorant than you clearly consider yourself to be, iamaware.

I don't claim to not be ignorant. My name has nothing to do with me. It's just some random phrase backwards.

 

[Generator]

For those who use it in such a way they feel that they are subjectivly using it appropriately.

Yes, and my point was that others consider such a use to be an abuse.

While I may know what something stands for popular perception rules what other people think about it. And you only fly a flag for other people to see.

The swastika was not originally a bad thing...popular culture went and hijacked it's meaning. It's starting to do it with the Aussie flag. If the Aussie flag become associaited with racism then I wouldn't like it.

To what extent has the flag been hijacked? Yes, it seems as though the flag is now used far more extensively than in the relatively recent past, but are you so sure that it has been hijacked by those spewing forth racist notions?

I don't claim to not be ignorant. My name has nothing to do with me. It's just some random phrase backwards.

Ah, I am well aware of that, member formerly known as.

Edit: The final part doesn't make much sense as it appears, so I thought that it would be best to point out that though the name of a person is quite important, in this particular case I think of one of the member's other identites rather than the one that the member is currently using. That said, you could just ignore the final part, too.

 

[erawamai]

To what extent has the flag been hijacked? Yes, it seems as though the flag is now used far more extensively than in the relatively recent past, but are you so sure that it has been hijacked by those spewing forth racist notions?

I think it is often hijacked by people who advocate an ugly form of nationalism.

I think Richard Neville, hippy futurist, captures ugly Aussie nationalism well with this piccie.

http://www.richardneville.com/Journal/webimages/riots cronulla 201205-3.jpg

 

[walrusbear]

It isn't hijacked by anyone. It is the nations flag, so quite rightly, those who are defending the nation, feel they should be able to use it.

what's the nation being defended from?

 

[absolution*]

what's the nation being defended from?

Evil, fanatical wogs. Duh.

 

[erawamai]

I'm not spouting racism.

racism and race riots which were pure reaction to decades of abuse at the hands of a minority who have tried time and time again to bully us out of our own nation.
It's not supposed to prove anything. It's to show that you have an admiration of Australia and that you will proudly fly the flag.

I'm not talking about the merits of what happened down south.

You're so smart erawamai! How is it that you can look so intelligently into things like this? Yes! Nationalism is a tool of the socialists!

Your last rant which was along these lines was in the 2005 newsletter.. Something about the middle class being opressed or something? Wow! You're so smarttt! OMG!!!!!

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You are free to rebut anything of what I said which you havnt done. Also if you could actually read you would realise that what I said in the newsletter has nothing to do with middle class oppression. Your reading of my comment only suggests to me that you have trouble with basic comprehension.

What you don't realise is people like me can also see who is being oppressed and by what.

Again you have trouble with comprehension. I didn't say you are being oppressed if you are nationalistic. I'm nationalistic as well like most people who are born in Australia. However strong nationalism is a tool of socialism/leftism that helps the state control the people…idealistic liberalism and free market ideas have very little time for nationalism and borders themselves. All they do is hinder the market achieve optimal balance.

You are free to present an argument as to how nationalism is a tool of right wing economics. Which I recon you might have a hard time doing, considering that nationalism is all about collective and group identification for a common cause.

 

[Jiga]

I think Richard Neville, hippy futurist, captures ugly Aussie nationalism well with this piccie.

http://www.richardneville.com/Journa...20201205-3.jpg

Fuck Richard Neville, the prick has Big Kev in their..... does he have no shame? :burn:

The flag is used by racists because unknowningly they are misguided and think they are doing what is best for Australia... and that doesnt mean the falg has become a symbol of racism, apart from the fact that every nations racists use their countries flag it does not over shadow the other things that a flag represents to a nation.... which have been forged in Australias case since federation. In short, one tiny day of misguided anger does NOT turn it into a racist symbol!

 

[Generator]

I think it is often hijacked by people who advocate an ugly form of nationalism.

I think Richard Neville, hippy futurist, captures ugly Aussie nationalism well with this piccie.

http://www.richardneville.com/Journal/webimages/riots cronulla 201205-3.jpg

I don't agree, unless you consider the form of Nationalism tacitly supported by the Coalition as being ugly (I think that it's going overboard, but I wouldn't call necessarily call it ugly). I do realise that many people at the edges abuse the flag and other notions of Australian identity (whatever such notions may be, of course), but I don't think that they have hijacked such symbols and ideas to the extent that they are forever tainted.

I think that that picture is going overboard, but that's to be expected from one who is likely to consider Howard as being a fascist. That said, the point is quite telling.

 

[leetom]

Well not this kind of blind, fanatical faith... no. The people I usually hear talking about how their government leaders are infallable are fascists.

My faith isn't blind and fanatical, of course I recognise that the ALP has faults but I believe that the party's guiding core principles negate any negativities. And I never referred to any ALP figures as infallible. I just hold a firm belief in the integrity of the Labor Party as a whole.

Does the Australian flag and all it represents really annoy you leetom?

That bastard flag is a true symbol of the bastard state of Australian opinion. (Bulletin, Sydney, 28 September 1901)