"Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories (2 Viewers)

[tommykins]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

@ future and current yr 12'ers

curiosity killed the cat

 

[mooo]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

yay!
this is awesome, but they should've done this wayyyy earlier imo

 

[cem]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Technically they are only of use to the particular year, but generally the raw mark cut offs for top bands stay the same, right?

As someone who has worked on the aligning panel the simple answer is 'no'. The cutoffs are determined annually. I know in the time that I have done this that the cut-offs were different each year.

 

[ajdlinux]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

I'm hoping for a positive response to the FOI application I sent in last week now...

I still don't think raw marks should be handed out by default. The standards-referenced alignment system still has its benefits in that it provides a number with some inherent meaning unlike the raw marks. But certainly anyone who wants their raw marks should be able to get it.

 

[Phoenix Fury]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Fucken Fantastic!

 

[Mathman26]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Fuck yeah im famous. Will be signing autographs later.

ps. hi bos, long time no post

r u hugh parsonage?

 

[Mathman26]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Board of Studies lashed by Ombudsman over HSC

ANNA PATTY EDUCATION EDITOR
September 24, 2009

THE NSW Board of Studies has been forced to release raw HSC results it spent thousands of dollars trying to keep secret, after the Ombudsman criticised its lack of transparency over how exam results are scaled.

The move has vindicated a former HSC student, Hugh Parsonage, who in 2005 applied for his raw exam marks and those of 50 other students, using freedom of information laws.

The Ombudsman, Bruce Barbour, found the Office of the Board of Studies was wrong in rejecting the application, saying its handling of the case ''from beginning to end, is of serious concern''.

He said the board expected the public to accept its marking process on trust, saying ''no student currently has enough information available to them to fully understand how the final results are produced''.

The board should establish a system for students to access cut-off marks for any subject on request and publish marking guidelines, he said.

In a damning report, he said the board had made no attempt to resolve the matter, instead spending $15,000 on legal representation to prevent the unscaled marks being released.

The Ombudsman found the board had misled him during his investigation and told Mr Parsonage ''documents he requested either did not exist or could not be produced, when in fact they did exist and could be produced''.

''For an agency which depends vitally on public confidence, it appears to me … that the [board] also displayed a lack of candour and adopted tactics that had the effect of misleading both the complainant and the Ombudsman.''

The Minister for Education, Verity Firth, and the newly appointed Board of Studies president, Tom Alegounarias, said the board accepted the findings.

Mr Parsonage, a student at the Australian National University, said he was ''pleased to be vindicated''. ''It was more a matter of principle exposing how the board had dealt with my application,'' he said. ''I think students should be able to get their raw marks.''

The board has released data showing Mr Parsonage scored 73 per cent in a maths exam and a final scaled mark of 93 per cent. In chemistry he scored 87 per cent with a final mark of 93 per cent.

A spokeswoman for the board said it welcomed the recommendations. ''The Ombudsman is not questioning the accuracy of the final results sent to HSC students, or the quality of the HSC credential. He has recommended greater transparency when individuals are seeking further information about their results.''

• The Ombudsman's 120 page report is available here.

HSC rechecks blasted by report

ANNA PATTY EDUCATION EDITOR
September 25, 2009

THE NSW Ombudsman has exposed the fallibility of the Higher School Certificate marking system in a scathing report on the workings of the NSW Board of Studies.

Bruce Barbour found that an average of 1860 students a year since 2001 have had their results rechecked in a process he criticised for not being transparent.

Between five to 28 changes were made each year as a result of the rechecks.

The Deputy Ombudsman, Chris Wheeler, who signed off on the inquiry, said that while most of the rechecks had not found mistakes, this could be an indication the system was near perfect.

''Alternatively, and more likely, in my view, it could be an indication that the current recheck system is not effective in identifying instances of genuine error,'' he said.

Mr Wheeler also criticised the Board of Studies for spending an estimated $51,000 in legal costs which could have been avoided if the board had properly handled a freedom of information request from a former HSC student.

The board spent the money in the Administrative Decisions Tribunal to prevent the former student, Hugh Parsonage, from obtaining his raw HSC marks and subject cut-off scores.

The Ombudsman found that the board was wrong in rejecting Mr Parsonage's request using freedom of information laws.

It had misled him by telling him documents he sought did not exist when they did exist, and misled the Ombudsman in his inquiry.

In his report, Mr Wheeler said ''all the information associated with the marking process should be made publicly available''.

''This is not the result the [board] would have wanted,'' he said. ''It is not appropriate to treat any member of the public as an enemy engaged in a campaign that somehow threatens the [board] and the system it administers, much less a stakeholder seeking information to explain how decisions are made that significantly affect the interests of numerous individuals.''

HSC marks out of the dark

EDITORIAL
September 25, 2009

THE Ombudsman's finding that the Board of Studies should release raw HSC marks and subject cut-off marks to students is the right one: there is no reason other than bureaucratic convenience to keep HSC candidates in the dark about the raw marks they attained in the examination. They should be told in detail, too, how those marks were scaled into their final scores.

The fact that raw marks are scaled is well known, as is the fact that the formulas and the processes which produce the final mark are complicated. But don't expect a clear explanation. A senior Board of Studies bureaucrat told the Ombudsman in evidence that ''there is an argument that we should explain better how we transform the raw marks … It would be quite a challenge for us to do it in a way that was in plain English.''

Scaling is needed to make final marks comparable from one year to another, and from one subject to another. To eliminate what it sees as needless worry, the board has turned it into what the Ombudsman describes as a black box: raw marks go in at one end, and final marks come out at the other, but as for what goes on in between, no one outside the board is allowed to know. To those who ask, ''But what if a mistake is made?'', the board answers only, ''Trust us.''

The board has said it will not release raw marks because they would only be misleading. Certainly, if people do not understand the process, the experience of having a raw mark scaled down to a lower final mark will seem baffling, possibly unfair and certainly suspicious - despite all the professionalism of markers and board personnel intended to ensure the opposite.

Will, as the board appears to fear, releasing candidates' raw marks give them the opportunity and motivation to contest the final mark - to kick up a stink and waste board resources in pointless challenges? Quite possibly. It comes down to a question, though, of how best to uphold the board's integrity. We believe transparency is more likely to boost public confidence than the present policy of keeping candidates in the dark.

The HSC is a public examination, and all results should be available to candidates. It is worrying that the Ombudsman found the board went to considerable, and highly questionable, lengths to keep the marks secret. The culture of secrecy runs deep in NSW. Constant vigilance is needed to ensure this oppressive instinct is kept in check.

Board sets a poor example

LETTERS
William Lloyd (Denistone)
September 25, 2009

I hope it will not take four years, expensively disputed freedom-of-information applications and a damning Ombudsman's report to provide us with the names of the members of the NSW Board of Studies when it was using questionable means to resist the release of validly sought information ("Board of studies lashed by Ombudsman over HSC", September 24). Corporate governance applies to boards of all levels and hardly more so than to the one charged with educating children – hopefully to perform their adult duties with greater care and responsibility than has been shown here.

y is are these articles sayin shit like the bos system is a secret? it aint a secret. these articles are sayin stuff like nobudy knows how raw amrks become alined marks.

 

[Frantelle_08]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

I would like to know as well, how you get the raw marks...

ty.

 

[ajdlinux]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

these articles are sayin stuff like nobudy knows how raw amrks become alined marks.

Because... no-one does know exactly how raw marks become aligned marks? Unless the Board of Studies releases the cutoffs.

 

[youngminii]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

It's about time. Restricting our freedom like that, hah.
The government sure took their sweet time

 

[cem]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Because... no-one does know exactly how raw marks become aligned marks? Unless the Board of Studies releases the cutoffs.

We do know the 'how' in the sense that people like me are on the panel that makes a recommendation to the BOS.

What we don't know is how much notice the BOS takes of the recommendations made by the aligning team.

 

[Aerath]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

I don't understand.....getting your raw marks isn't going to change your ATAR or whatever. Although, I guess, knowing that I got 40/105 for English Advanced will tell me I failed, but I'd probably surmise that from getting something like 70 in English Advanced.

 

[ajdlinux]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

We do know the 'how' in the sense that people like me are on the panel that makes a recommendation to the BOS.

What we don't know is how much notice the BOS takes of the recommendations made by the aligning team.

Well yes, we do know the method, but we don't know enough to actually be able to do the alignment ourselves. (Same with ATAR scaling, except that's a whole lot more complicated anyway, and we can do a fairly good estimate with past UAC stats.)

 

[lyounamu]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Who reckons we should have a party over this great news?

 

[cem]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Well yes, we do know the method, but we don't know enough to actually be able to do the alignment ourselves. (Same with ATAR scaling, except that's a whole lot more complicated anyway, and we can do a fairly good estimate with past UAC stats.)

I don't understand what you need to know to be able to do the aligning yourselves.

All the judges have to make their determination is the marking guidelines, the question and the performance descriptor bands.


The only thing that the judges have that a student wouldn't have is 'professional judgement' and that only comes from years of experience of teaching and marking the course.

What more do you need to be able to determine the aligning yourself?

 

[helper]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

As a marker I don't get given sample answers to use when marking.


All I get is a marking criteria so I don't know what he is getting at.

I never see a 'correct' answer - I suppose marking Modern History where there is no such thing might explain it but what is in the Notes is all that I have ever seen at marking - the marking criteria, which in Modern History hasn't really changed over the last 3 - 4 years.

Sciences may be different. There is a marking scheme and marking guidelines. There also is a sample answer given.

Both the scheme and guidelines are signed off by the exam committee before they can be used. The scheme is a fleshing out of the guidelines, which is done by the senior marker and pilot markers during 1-2 days before the rest of the markers arrive. It clarifies any ambiguities but the guidelines, is always referred back to if there is a dispute over marking. The guidelines overrule the scheme.

Eg the scheme might include a overhead sheet to place onto the diagram, that shows the range of accepted answers for a graph, with the line of best fit or plotting points.

The guideline, would only say "trend line reflects data"

The sample answer given, is often written up at the last minute and often isn't a perfect answer or a complete answer. They don't reflect all the aspects of the question or all possible answers. They are basically ignored by the markers. They were published in this years notes. Looking back on them earlier this year, the amount they lack is obvious to a marker. I think they are going to cause more confusion than clarification because often they are not answers that would obtain full marks because they are only written to reflect part of the question.

 

[ajdlinux]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

I don't understand what you need to know to be able to do the aligning yourselves.

All the judges have to make their determination is the marking guidelines, the question and the performance descriptor bands.


The only thing that the judges have that a student wouldn't have is 'professional judgement' and that only comes from years of experience of teaching and marking the course.

What more do you need to be able to determine the aligning yourself?

The professional judgement, access to marking schemes (NOT the published marking guidelines), an advisory committee...

Yes, teachers would be able to estimate the cutoffs using their knowledge, standards packages and all that, but most students can't do that, and most teachers are too busy.

edit: Also, even if we could align it ourselves, we could still get a different cutoff from what the Board of Studies actually used, which is all we really care about. Even a difference of 2-3 marks in the cutoff could potentially be significant.

 

[helper]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Even a difference of 2-3 marks in the cutoff could potentially be significant.

Significant in terms of what?

 

[ajdlinux]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Significant in terms of what?

Significant in terms of I prefer getting 90 to getting 88

 

[helper]

re: "Board of Studies lashed over HSC" and other stories

Significant in terms of I prefer getting 90 to getting 88

Knowing the cut-offs is not going to earn you any more marks.