Blasts rip through Bali again (2 Viewers)

[Rafy]

Bali .


(Just making sure that the thread about Bali has the word Bali in it.)

 

[erawamai]

What are you talking about? (Or is Z nizzle an ALP centre lefty.)

s Nizzle is a member of the ALP? Or ALP supporter.

 

[erawamai]

Well then , what the hell are you talking about?

erawamai gives up on you.

 

[Wesnat]

I see some of us blame religion for this, and unfortunate but understandable point of view... I suppose.

However, if you think about it, science and religion are in some ways similar. After WWII, science was blamed for all the sufferings and devastations the resulted from it. The Cold War centred around science. Religion was blamed for the Crusade, and many other conflicts in the past and present.

I think 'the cause of all the world's problems' are the people themselves - those who abuse science and religion for their own gains. Science and religion are there for the good of humanity. It's the people abusing them that's the core of the problem.

....What a way to go off-topic.


What can we discuss about this Bali bombing? I'm running out of ideas. Well, I guess it's about time the Indonesian government outlawed JI, though questions have been raised about its impact on terrorism in Indonesia. Will it really make a difference? Anyone has any thoughts on JI's activities if it were to be outlawed?

 

[cate_7x]

what do terrorists achieve in bombing their own country? they only bring more fear within their own community, make tourists never return to their homeland, economy go down etc, they're not winning a medal for that, its their lost for nothing...

Do you really think they care about their community or economy? The reasons they do these things are mainly linked to religion - and as far as my memory serves, a large majority of balinese are hindus - so in their minds it isn't as if they are hurting people like themselves.

 

[sly fly]

I'd just like to clarify something. ISLAM does not condone terrorism. Nor does it condone the killing of innocent civilians in the name of resistance. What Islam does support, is self defence. There is no such thing as an offensive war in Islam. The only justified war is a defensive war. I'm against the occupation of Iraq, Palestine etc and support resistance to such occupation as a means of self-defence. However, where self-defence constitutes of killing innocent civilians, it can no longer be justified by Islam.

As for the guy who said that some interpretations of Islam do condone terrorism, I'd like to see the source of such information. As of yet, I haven't come across any Islamic sects that condone terrorism. The two major sects, sunni's and shia's, both condemn it. Other random minority sects such as the sufi's also condemn it.

Btw, has anyone considered that it may not even be Muslims who are responsible for all these terrorist attacks? I mean in terms of people PRETENDING to be Muslim, not in terms of idiots who claim to be Muslim. Just food for thought.

 

[supercharged]

When will people learn?

The only way to deal with a country infested with suicidal muslim terrorists is to have a strong arm dictator at the helm.

These bombings in Bali would never of happened if Soeharto was still in power, he would of jailed or shot any self motivated islamic cleric such as Abu Bakar Bashir for leading a dirty big 'religious' rebellion against the government, rather that let him preech his hate to his dumbarse followers.

Daily terrorist attacks in Iraq, trying to spark civil war and undermine the government?
Last time the Shia muslims tryed to overthrow the Iraqi government, Saddam sent in the army and crushed them quick smart with no trouble at all.

Chechen terrorists blowing up apartments, killing hostages in schools and theatres in Russia? Not in Stalin's time. He just deported the lot of them out of Chechena to Siberia. Can't blow anyone up when you're freezing your arse off in sub zero temperatures.

Dictatorships are the best form of goverment at eliminating any seperatist/religious terrorism, democracy is a breeding ground for extremism, since terrorist leaders have the 'right to free speech' and cause shitloads of trouble to the countries they live in.

If countries such as Saudi Arabia became democratic, Al Qaeda would have a field day spreading their terrorist ideology to the masses without consequence, due to loose democratic governance. Bring back the old school 'Josef Stalin' style military dictators and terrorism would be crushed.

 

[blackfriday]

you are right but in practise power is pretty much always misused and so the dictatorship becomes a tyrannical regime, which is awful and you live with the same level of fear that you would have when there are religious fundamentalists everwhere.

 

[callisto]

coming from newcastle, its so wierd. everyone is somehow connected to the ppl in the attacks. joe frost is one of my freinds from uni, and one of my other close friends, one of her friends' parents were killed

 

[supercharged]

That's right, George Bush is the fudamentalist leader of the 'Imperial American Church of War and Mayhem'

 

[SabtheLab]

So essentially people from Australian who feel for the resistance should go and fight? People 'united under a single ideology'.

erawamai, your taking nationalism a tad bit too far. as humans our instinctive tendency is to look out for a fellow human being if his rights are being compromised or life in danger. nationalism is a man-made concept to promote a feeling of cameraderie between humans living in the same space- to know that they will look out for you if your in danger. however, when a fellow human being who doesnt happen to share this nationality loses his/her rights (ie. occupation) our sympathies will naturally be inclined toward them before our own (particularl;y if they are the perpetrators). from this perspective, its justified that z nizzle would support the occupied rather than the occupier, irrespective of who his allegiance is to. if, as humans, we have come to a stage where our loyalties to man made political structures take precedence over our basic instinct to care for a fellow human in need, then id say we've regressed as a human race.

z nizzle is human enough to listen to his instinct before his allegiance to a government whihc is causing mayhem and unnecessary bloodshed in another country( oh sorry, maintaining the ' war on terror').

so please, erawamai, think about what ur going to say before you say it and keep in mind- you're a human before an Australian citizen.

 

[Generator]

so please, erawamai, think about what ur going to say before you say it and keep in mind- you're a human before an Australian citizen.

As were those gassed by Saddam, so on, so forth, etc., etc.

erawamai was posing a hypothetical for someone who is interested in becoming involved in the mainstream political process. I suggest that you don't take issue with single sentences that have been ripped out of their original context in the belief that you are clarifying a point of contention, becuase that post did nothing more than show your inability to comprehend the true complexities of the issue for all involved (as opposed to just the Iraqis, and in that regard you cannot just assume that all are against the 'occupation').

 

[SabtheLab]

generator, i am aware that this is a highly contentious issue and do understand the complexities involved in the political process. however, it is erawamai's rhetoric thats simple- our allegiance should be to australia regardless of the oppression she and her allies are imposing upon others. im assuming ur implying that this idea should be explored from another angle, one that may perhaps lend it some creedence??

 

[Generator]

That wasn't what he was saying.

Essentially you are justifying terrorism on the basis that you are being terrorised?

let me ask you something...do you support the American occupation of iraq?

If I do then then I support terrorism. The means used by those in the resisting are terrorist means.

Essentially you are justifying the use of terrorism or violence because the other person is using terrorism or violence. I have no idea what that is going to achieve.

Now the BIG FAT QUESTION is whether you support resistance by proxy? Is it ok for people to attack western centers outside of areas of resistance in the name of the resistence of western culture

Once again you are wrong:

let me put it simply:

Resistance to occupation(iraq, Palestine) = I support
BALI BOMBINGS, LONDON BOMBINGS, 911, MADRID= I do not support.

Yes Yes I get it. You support terrorism that constitues resistance in the country of occupation. The tough question is that this resistance happens to invovle Australian forces. Those resisting want to kill Australian soldiers. Do you support the killing of Australian soldiers in the name of resistance?

well if the iraqi resistance believes that the Australian soldiers pose a threat...then certainly, its a product for themselves.

Perhaps you should use that line in order to see how far up into the ALP you get

Would you kill Australian soldiers if you were in iraq?

It's called a 'hypothetical'

Considering that he[, one who wants to become a mover and shaker within the ALP,] supports the resistance while living in Australia I wonder if he would consider fighting in the resistance in Iraq. If he would be proud to do so?

As should be obvious, I added the 'one who wants to become a mover and shaker within the ALP' line.

Edit: As i said in my pervious post, the intial thrust of the argument was that zahid's position re. the Iraqi 'resistance' (and all that it entails (see below)) doesn't exactly mesh with that of the ALP and the population at large, more so when you consider the fact that Australian soldiers are currently stationed in Iraq. Now, given that zahid thinks of himself of as a future politician, can't you see the difficulty? That's what erawamai was trying to stress (successfully, I thought, till you took issue with a comment taken out of its original context).

Edit 2: In popular discourse, the resistance is associated with terrorism both in Iraq and abroad, with such acts in Iraq itself being carried out by Iraqis and those of other nationalities against both Iraqis supportive of the US-led force and the troops of the coalition. Though few would necessarily take issue with someone merely defending their home in a reasonable way, the resistance and the manner in which it is being waged now stand for much more than that.

 

[beccaxx]

coming from newcastle, its so wierd. everyone is somehow connected to the ppl in the attacks. joe frost is one of my freinds from uni, and one of my other close friends, one of her friends' parents were killed

hey who r u??? do i know u? lol. joe was in my journalism tute. he has one psycho finger which he used to freak me out in class one time. i feel really sorry for him, and all the other ppl who were there. it totally is huge and so emotionally wrecking.