Biden Leaving Afghanistan discussion (2 Viewers)

[Dulu]

Biden has just left Afghanistan and now China is thinking about attacking Taiwan I cannot believe a president could do something so stupid they announced the fact that they were leaving in advanced and now he is blaming trump personally I think leaving Afghanistan was a terrible idea it could lead to future fighting and war Biden is truely incompetent and unfit for presidency if he is acting like this Vladamir Putin would never do such a thing have opened this thread to see what you people think about the current situation

 

[O01x]

They wasted a trillion dollars in Afghanistan by invading it, the primary aim was to find Bin Laden, who wasn't even in Afghanistan. They were wasting taxpayers money and sending thousands of men to die for a lost cause, so eventually they had to leave whether it'd be 10 years later or now, they chose to do it recently.
I agree with Biden, the Afghanistan government didn't cooperate. You can give them everything, latest military hardware and thousands of trained soldiers, however you can't give them the will to fight and stand up for their own country, and relying on a foreign power to do your dirty work is a waste of time and shows a lack of determination. The government of Afghanistan was corrupt anyways; instead of fighting the Taliban, most of the government ran off to neighboring countries with as much cash as they could have. Taliban or not the country would have been screwed anyways, especially due to corruption from the previous government.

 

[Trebla]

Unfortunately, for the US it’s a choice between horrible options either way to get out of this hole that they dug themselves into. Either being stuck in this state of “forever war” or withdraw (which they inevitably have to do at some point it was just a matter of when). You’re kidding yourself if you really think the whole independent democratic government transformation was going to sustainably work.

For me it was kind of a tragic inevitability, as a result of the US overstaying particularly after Bin Laden was found (which was the original reason why they invaded in the first place). I don’t think this has anything to do with one president (which is quite frankly just petty politics) but the way the US government as a whole has more generally treated issues in the Middle East.

 

[Drdusk]

They wasted a trillion dollars in Afghanistan by invading it, the primary aim was to find Bin Laden, who wasn't even in Afghanistan. They were wasting taxpayers money and sending thousands of men to die for a lost cause, so eventually they had to leave whether it'd be 10 years later or now, they chose to do it sooner.

He was in Afghanistan, however he fled to pakistan during the invasion period.

 

[stressedadfff]

I agree, but I'm baffled that people didn't expect this from biden, history always repeats itself. He knows what he is doing, he is a war criminal. Its sad that people are blindsided with all their bs talk that they dont see there true characters. The media kept pushing biden and people fell for it. It hasnt even been a year! The fact he hasn't been impeached yet is crazy.

the guy has dementia tf is he leading the country for

 

[O01x]

He was in Afghanistan, however he fled to pakistan during the invasion period.

Exactly, they should have left Afghanistan when they found him instead of wasting another 10 years achieving almost nothing

 

[Drdusk]

Unfortunately, for the US it’s a choice between horrible options either way to get out of this hole that they dug themselves into. Either being stuck in this state of “forever war” or withdraw (which they inevitably have to do at some point it was just a matter of when). You’re kidding yourself if you really think the whole independent democratic government transformation was going to sustainably work.

For me it was kind of a tragic inevitability, as a result of the US overstaying particularly after Bin Laden was found (which was the original reason why they invaded in the first place). I don’t think this has anything to do with one president (which is quite frankly just petty politics) but the way the US government as a whole has treated issues in the Middle East.

Yeah I agree with this.

Afghanistan is too remote and disconnected for it to transform into an american like democracy in 20 years. The taliban just had to wait it out until America no longer had the political will to stay.

They did pull out in an irresponsible way though, at the very least evacuate the people that helped you and then leave. They just packed up and left and are now evacuating afghans that helped basically after the taliban took over which is highly irresponsible.

 

[cosmo 2]

lol so what

trump was going to leave eventually himself

the talbian won; get over it

its almost like you cant defeat a determined adversary that is sure of its beliefs when you're not even remotely sure of your own

 

[enoilgam]

I don't think Biden is totally to blame here, it's a complete failure of US Policy and each of the four Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden) share responsibility. They were naïve to think that they could change a country with a vastly different culture and set of social norms

At the end of the day, as tragic as the scenes are in Afghanistan, I believe that it is the will of the people. The Taliban aren't some fringe group, with a small membership base of outcasts. They are a large, well funded organisation who easily took over a country that had a well trained and equipped army (who capitulated very quickly). That tells me that the Afghan government had nowhere near the commitment, backing and support of the Taliban in Afghanistan. This is a very controversial view, but Ive never really supported the narrative that extremists represented a minority in the Islamic world. The truth is, whilst active extremists themselves are a minority (i.e. Terrorists), they are supported or enabled by the majority. I have nothing against Islam as a religion, I think it has great values and ideals and is no more inherently violent than say Christianity. But it has a significant culture problem amongst its adherents, who insist on sticking to outdated behaviours and norms which are detrimental to their advancement as a people. Hence why the Islamic world is constantly in a state of perpetual violence. However, the people of Afghanistan have spoke and they clearly want a return to Islamic extremism. Im all for people having what they want, just as long as it isn't exported to the Western world.

To add to the above, I believe the US also has a significant culture problem with violence, so Im by no means targeting one group. I just call a spade a spade.

 

[SylviaB]

lol who cares

once the US was already there, what else could they have done? If the men of afghanistan were truly opposed to taliban rule they could have stopped it but you can't help people who won't help themselves or see themselves not in need of help. I feel bad for all the women and children who will be raped we can't police the entire world.

 

[Dulu]

I don't think Biden is totally to blame here, it's a complete failure of US Policy and each of the four Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden) share responsibility. They were naïve to think that they could change a country with a vastly different culture and set of social norms

At the end of the day, as tragic as the scenes are in Afghanistan, I believe that it is the will of the people. The Taliban aren't some fringe group, with a small membership base of outcasts. They are a large, well funded organisation who easily took over a country that had a well trained and equipped army (who capitulated very quickly). That tells me that the Afghan government had nowhere near the commitment, backing and support of the Taliban in Afghanistan. This is a very controversial view, but Ive never really supported the narrative that extremists represented a minority in the Islamic world. The truth is, whilst active extremists themselves are a minority (i.e. Terrorists), they are supported or enabled by the majority. I have nothing against Islam as a religion, I think it has great values and ideals and is no more inherently violent than say Christianity. But it has a significant culture problem amongst its adherents, who insist on sticking to outdated behaviours and norms which are detrimental to their advancement as a people. Hence why the Islamic world is constantly in a state of perpetual violence. However, the people of Afghanistan have spoke and they clearly want a return to Islamic extremism. Im all for people having what they want, just as long as it isn't exported to the Western world.

To add to the above, I believe the US also has a significant culture problem with violence, so Im by no means targeting one group. I just call a spade a spade.

I agree Biden isn’t completely to blame but the way he did take us force out of Afghanistan by announcing the date they were hoping to be gone by was a terrible idea and he is clearly unfit for presidency by the way he acts like forgetting things randomly and ranting

 

[cosmo 2]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Life'sHard]

This pull out kinda looks the same as what the US did with Vietnam. Shit will probably work itself out.

 

[Drdusk]

I don't think they it's necessarily the will of the people. The Taliban were well funded and supported from nation states like Pakistan, rather than from the local population. The local population don't have much of a say of what happens when a well-funded militia group rolls into town. In terms of backing and support, you can't really compare an organized military fighting force with guerilla warfare. As shown throughout history, national armies are often at a disadvantage when fighting non-state actors utilising guerilla tactics. Just because the guerilla force wins does not mean that they necessarily had more backing and support. Now, I'm not saying that the Taliban aren't supported by the will of the people - they may very well be, I have no idea. I'm just saying you can't infer that from looking at the macrosopic picture because the ground situation is incredibly complex, as there's so many more variables at play.

I think it's inaccurate to say a military fighting force doesn't do well in guerilla warfare, one only needs to look at the very large disparity between casualty numbers, and actually when America first invaded they look over 90% of Taliban territory very quickly with a large chunk of them fleeing to Pakistan. Problem is as they realized soon enough, when they pull troops out the Taliban would just come right back. This whole thing was a major diplomatic failure not a military one in terms of America itself. I do agree about the Pakistan thing, even though I obviously don't know of any hard evidence that Pakistan directly funds The Taliban I think it's a very high probability that they do.

lol who cares

once the US was already there, what else could they have done? If the men of afghanistan were truly opposed to taliban rule they could have stopped it but you can't help people who won't help themselves or see themselves not in need of help. I feel bad for all the women and children who will be raped we can't police the entire world.

I don't like making this argument because you don't know what you'd do in a war situation until you've been in one. Some people are prepared to fight and die, some people don't want to fight and just want to leave. I personally think only a small minority of people in general have what it takes to be a war fighter and so I do not like to blame people who just want to get out because probably most if not a lot of us would do the same thing, unless of course there was conscription in which case you're just forced into it.

 

[cosmo 2]

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[enoilgam]

Im laughing at the US as well, imagine spending $2.2 trillion on a war in some third world country, whilst your infrastructure is crumbling, you have crippling social inequality and numerous issues with domestic health care access. No wonder the country is going down the toilet. Worst of all, China is laughing and moving in to fill the void left by the USA (which should scare everyone).

 

[SylviaB]

Worst of all, China is laughing and moving in to fill the void left by the USA (which should scare everyone).

China were happy the US were wasting so much money and they aren't filling the void in afghanistan

 

[CM_Tutor]

And who provided weapons and training to the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets? The Americans. It is amazing that American policy makers failed to recognise that the way that Afghanistan was made ungovernable for Soviet occupiers would almost inevitably push out American forces. Bush planned for an invasion but not for post-invasion stabilisation nor an exit plan for leaving behind a functional and stable country, just like in Iraq, and these failures were never adequately rectified in the following decades.

 

[cosmo 2]

 

[SylviaB]

And who provided weapons and training to the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets? The Americans. It is amazing that American policy makers failed to recognise that the way that Afghanistan was made ungovernable for Soviet occupiers would almost inevitably push out American forces. Bush planned for an invasion but not for post-invasion stabilisation nor an exit plan for leaving behind a functional and stable country, just like in Iraq, and these failures were never adequately rectified in the following decades.

lmaooo as america could "stabilise" a place like Afghanistan