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Belief in evolution around the world (2 Viewers)

webby234

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bshoc said:
Dawinism is obviously very important to leftists and atheists. In the US they bring lawsuits whenever anyone mentions in a high school biology class, for example, the Cambrian explosion, where every animal, phyla appear in the blink of an eye—no evolutionary process
There are plenty of possible explanations eg the abundance of oxygen reached the required limit, the snowball earth theory - it's just we don't know which one is accurate yet. Also, this "blink of an eye" is in fact 50 million years, and it has been argued (see the wikipedia article) "that the presence of animals, with their vigorous ability to move and prey on other organisms, would have speeded up general ecological evolution by a factor of about ten."

—there it is, including the eye by the way, which they've never figured out how the eye could have evolved by natural mutation—random mutation, and natural selection.
Actually there is - read this for example
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html said:
Here's how some scientists think some eyes may have evolved: The simple light-sensitive spot on the skin of some ancestral creature gave it some tiny survival advantage, perhaps allowing it to evade a predator. Random changes then created a depression in the light-sensitive patch, a deepening pit that made "vision" a little sharper. At the same time, the pit's opening gradually narrowed, so light entered through a small aperture, like a pinhole camera.

Every change had to confer a survival advantage, no matter how slight. Eventually, the light-sensitive spot evolved into a retina, the layer of cells and pigment at the back of the human eye. Over time a lens formed at the front of the eye. It could have arisen as a double-layered transparent tissue containing increasing amounts of liquid that gave it the convex curvature of the human eye.

In fact, eyes corresponding to every stage in this sequence have been found in existing living species. The existence of this range of less complex light-sensitive structures supports scientists' hypotheses about how complex eyes like ours could evolve. The first animals with anything resembling an eye lived about 550 million years ago. And, according to one scientist's calculations, only 364,000 years would have been needed for a camera-like eye to evolve from a light-sensitive patch.
bschoc said:
Well, there it is—the fossil record disproves it. But we can't mention the Cambrian explosion or the Chinese Fossil Bed that appeared before that. I mean, what you see over and over again with species is not the gradual change from one species to another, or even to create an all-new, novel biological form. You see a species appearing fully formed, minor adaptations for whatever it is—a hundred million years—and then poof, totally disappearing. Almost like there was a flood or something
Or a comet? There have been many sudden changes in the earth's climate, geological activity etc. Further, we obviously do not have a complete fossil record - it has been estimated that the whole of the population of America today will only leave behind a total of one human skeleton. By this it is understandable that we only rarely see the evolutionary stages. But there are places where we do and our picture is always improving.

I would say that you ar simply focusing on the small details that have not yet been fully explained and ignoring the incredible amount of evidence for it. What alternative explanation can you give for fossils like the one found a couple of days ago? That fossil clearly shows a transition stage in evolution - a missing link.
 

Slidey

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Evolution represents one of the broadest, most inclusive theories used in pursuit of and in teaching this knowledge, but it is by no means the only theory involved. Scientific theories are used in two ways: to explain what we know, and to pursue new knowledge. Evolution explains observations of shared characteristics (the result of common ancestry and descent with modification) and adaptations (the result of natural selection acting to maximize reproductive success), as well as explaining pollen:eek:vule ratios, weeds, deceptive pollination strategies, differences in sexual expression, dioecy, and a myriad of other biological phenomena. Far from being merely a speculative notion, as implied when someone says, “evolution is just a theory,” the core concepts of evolution are well documented and well confirmed. Natural selection has been repeatedly demonstrated in both field and laboratory, and descent with modification is so well documented that scientists are justified in saying that evolution is true.

Some people contend that creationism and its surrogate, “intelligent design,” offers an alternative explanation: that organisms are well adapted and have common characteristics because they were created just so, and they exhibit the hallmarks of intelligent design. As such, creationism is an all inclusive explanation for every biological phenomenon. So why do we support and teach evolution and not creationism/“intelligent design” if both explain the same phenomena? Are botanists just dogmatic, atheistic materialists, as some critics of science imply? Hardly, although scientists are routinely portrayed by creationists as dogmatic. We are asked, “Why, in all fairness, don’t we teach both explanations and let students decide?”

The fairness argument implies that creationism is a scientifically valid alternative to evolution, and that is not true. Science is not about fairness, and all explanations are not equal. Some scientific explanations are highly speculative with little in the way of supporting evidence, and they will stand or fall based upon rigorous testing. The history of science is littered with discarded explanations, e.g., inheritance of acquired characters, but these weren’t discarded because of public opinion or general popularity; each one earned that distinction by being scientifically falsified. Scientists may jump on a “band wagon” for some new explanation, particularly if it has tremendous explanatory power, something that makes sense out of previously unexplained phenomena. But for an explanation to become a mainstream component of a theory, it must be tested and found useful in doing science.

To make progress, to learn more about botanical organisms, hypotheses, the subcomponents of theories, are tested by attempting to falsify logically derived predictions. This is why scientists use and teach evolution; evolution offers testable explanations of observed biological phenomena. Evolution continues to be of paramount usefulness, and so, based on simple pragmatism, scientists use this theory to improve our understanding of the biology of organisms. Over and over again, evolutionary theory has generated predictions that have proven to be true. Any hypothesis that doesn’t prove true is discarded in favor of a new one, and so the component hypotheses of evolutionary theory change as knowledge and understanding grow. Phylogenetic hypotheses, patterns of ancestral relatedness, based on one set of data, for example, base sequences in DNA, are generated, and when the results make logical sense out of formerly disparate observations, confidence in the truth of the hypothesis increases. The theory of evolution so permeates botany that frequently it is not mentioned explicitly, but the overwhelming majority of published studies are based upon evolutionary hypotheses, each of which constitutes a test of an hypothesis. Evolution has been very successful as a scientific explanation because it has been useful in advancing our understanding of organisms and applying that knowledge to the solution of many human problems, e.g., host-pathogen interactions, origin of crop plants, herbicide resistance, disease susceptibility of crops, and invasive plants.

For example, plant biologists have long been interested in the origins of crop plants. Wheat is an ancient crop of the Middle East. Three species exist both as wild and domesticated wheats, einkorn, emmer, and breadwheat. Archeological studies have demonstrated that einkorn is the most ancient and breadwheat appeared most recently. To plant biologists this suggested that somehow einkorn gave rise to emmer, and emmer gave rise to breadwheat (an hypothesis). Further evidence was obtained from chromosome numbers that showed einkorn with 14, emmer with 28, and breadwheat with 42. Further, the chromosomes in einkorn consisted of two sets of 7 chromosomes, designated AA. Emmer had 14 chromosomes similar in shape and size, but 14 more, so they were designated AABB. Breadwheat had chromosomes similar to emmer, but 14 more, so they were designated AABBCC. To plant biologists familiar with mechanisms of speciation, these data, the chromosome numbers and sets, suggested that the emmer and breadwheat species arose via hybridization and polyploidy (an hypothesis). The Middle Eastern flora was studied to find native grasses with a chromosome number of 14, and several goatgrasses were discovered that could be the predicted parents, the sources of the BB and CC chromosomes. To test these hypotheses, plant biologists crossed einkorn and emmer wheats with goatgrasses, which produced sterile hybrids. These were treated to produce a spontaneous doubling of the chromosome number, and as predicted, the correct crosses artificially produced both the emmer and breadwheat species. No one saw the evolution of these wheat species, but logical predictions about what happened were tested by recreating likely circumstances. Grasses are wind-pollinated, so cross-pollination between wild and cultivated grasses happens all the time. Frosts and other natural events are known to cause a doubling of chromosomes. And the hypothesized sequence of speciation matches their observed appearance in the archeological record. Farmers would notice and keep new wheats, and the chromosome doubling and hybrid vigor made both emmer and breadwheat larger, more vigorous wheats. Lastly, a genetic change in breadwheat from the wild goatgrass chromosomes allowed for the chaff to be removed from the grain without heating, so glutin was not denatured, and a sourdough (yeast infected) culture of the sticky breadwheat flour would inflate (rise) from the trapped carbon dioxide.

The actual work was done by many plant biologists over many years, little by little, gathering data and testing ideas, until these evolutionary events were understood as generally described above. The hypothesized speciation events were actually recreated, an accomplishment that allows plant biologists to breed new varieties of emmer and bread wheats. Using this speciation mechanism, plant biologists hybridized wheat and rye, producing a new, vigorous, high protein cereal grain, Triticale.

What would the creationist paradigm have done? No telling. Perhaps nothing, because observing three wheat species specially created to feed humans would not have generated any questions that needed answering. No predictions are made, so there is no reason or direction for seeking further knowledge. This demonstrates the scientific uselessness of creationism. While creationism explains everything, it offers no understanding beyond, “that’s the way it was created.” No testable predictions can be derived from the creationist explanation. Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. In those few instances where predictions can be inferred from Biblical passages (e.g., groups of related organisms, migration of all animals from the resting place of the ark on Mt. Ararat to their present locations, genetic diversity derived from small founder populations, dispersal ability of organisms in direct proportion to their distance from eastern Turkey), creationism has been scientifically falsified.

Is it fair or good science education to teach about an unsuccessful, scientifically useless explanation just because it pleases people with a particular religious belief? Is it unfair to ignore scientifically useless explanations, particularly if they have played no role in the development of modern scientific concepts? Science education is about teaching valid concepts and those that led to the development of new explanations.

Creationism is the modern manifestation of a long-standing conflict between science and religion in Western Civilization. Prior to science, and in all non-scientific cultures, myths were the only viable explanations for a myriad of natural phenomena, and these myths became incorporated into diverse religious beliefs. Following the rise and spread of science, where ideas are tested against nature rather than being decided by religious authority and sacred texts, many phenomena previously attributed to the supernatural (disease, genetic defects, lightning, blights and plagues, epilepsy, eclipses, comets, mental illness, etc.) became known to have natural causes and explanations. Recognizing this, the Catholic Church finally admitted, after 451 years, that Galileo was correct; the Earth was not the unmoving center of the Universe. Mental illness, birth defects, and disease are no longer considered the mark of evil or of God’s displeasure or punishment. Epileptics and people intoxicated by ergot-infected rye are no longer burned at the stake as witches. As natural causes were discovered and understood, religious authorities were forced to alter long-held positions in the face of growing scientific knowledge. This does not mean science has disproved the existence of the supernatural. The methodology of science only deals with the material world.

Science as a way of knowing has been extremely successful, although people may not like all the changes science and its handmaiden, technology, have wrought. But people who oppose evolution, and seek to have creationism or intelligent design included in science curricula, seek to dismiss and change the most successful way of knowing ever discovered. They wish to substitute opinion and belief for evidence and testing. The proponents of creationism/intelligent design promote scientific ignorance in the guise of learning. As professional scientists and educators, we strongly assert that such efforts are both misguided and flawed, presenting an incorrect view of science, its understandings, and its processes.
http://www.botany.org/newsite/announcements/evolution.php

Evolution: lots
Creationism: e^(i*pi)
 

volition

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PwarYuex said:
To the 'False' responders, they should have been asked when and where they think people just popped out of nowhere.
I don't think it's fair to expect them to have a response of their own, in much the same way it is acceptable for me to deny the existence of God and not have my own theory of how humans/the earth came to be.
 
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bshoc said:
Almost like there was a flood or something
Well yes, there could have been a natural disaster. Thanks for the input.

But seriously, the presence of a flood does not prove that God caused the flood. A comet smashing into the earth does not prove or disprove God. I can believe that the flood was caused by the dolphin faeries, who all flew off into space afterwards, for exactly the same reason you believe in God. It's all down to faith. No Proof, no scientific experiment, just faith.

I love the dolphin faeries. I will see them again when I die. I ask them everyday to show you the light, let you see their watery wings.


Friedrich Nietzsche: A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
 

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ElendilPeredhil said:
Well yes, there could have been a natural disaster. Thanks for the input.

But seriously, the presence of a flood does not prove that God caused the flood. A comet smashing into the earth does not prove or disprove God. I can believe that the flood was caused by the dolphin faeries, who all flew off into space afterwards, for exactly the same reason you believe in God. It's all down to faith. No Proof, no scientific experiment, just faith.

I love the dolphin faeries. I will see them again when I die. I ask them everyday to show you the light, let you see their watery wings.
You're accusing me of things I never said, all I've mentioned is that things like the cambrian explosion put evolution into serious doubt.

Actually if you want to believe you evolved from a monkey, great, just so long as you believe that I didn't.
 
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gerhard

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the fact that you believe evolution says that we evolved from monkeys shows your complete ignorance.
 

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bshoc said:
You're accusing me of things I never said, all I've mentioned is that things like the cambrian explosion put evolution into serious doubt.

Actually if you want to believe you evolved from a monkey, great, just so long as you believe that I didn't.
You belong in America with the rest of the religous rednecks; the very fact that evolution doesn't claim we evolved directly from monkeys but rather shared a common ancestor only serves to reiterate this. If you don't have the slightest clue what your rambling on about then I wouldn't talk at all, lest risk seeming like a complete fucking moron.
 

Calculon

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bshoc said:
The same reason they were suckered into believing in eugenics in the 20's, fascism in the 30's and feminism in the 70's. Evolution seems like an iron theory to many people today, the same "this is the undenyable truth because we have irrefutable evidence" way eugenics was viewed in 20's - many scientific theories have been disproven and new ones created in their place over time, its not at all unthinkable that the evolution of man could be modified or completely disproven as science continues to better itself. From a side on perspective, evolution-fanatics are no different from christian-fanatics, although both are godly compared to the filth that is Islam.
Eugenics, facism and feminism are scientific theories now?
 

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Calculon said:
Eugenics, facism and feminism are scientific theories now?
Eugenics definitely was, also a theory is a theory, it doesen't matter what you sucker people into believing is scientific or not.
 

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bored6 said:
You belong in America with the rest of the religous rednecks; the very fact that evolution doesn't claim we evolved directly from monkeys but rather shared a common ancestor only serves to reiterate this. If you don't have the slightest clue what your rambling on about then I wouldn't talk at all, lest risk seeming like a complete fucking moron.
My aren't we the angry young leftist?

1. I'm not religious, I just dont believe in your darwinism and athiesm bullshit.
2. ITS A FIGURE OF SPEECH DUMBASS .. tell me what you think this looks like
http://www.missouri.edu/~anthmark/courses/mah/images/apeman.jpg
3. America is a good country, and surprisingly their freedom of speech laws are better than ours.

Seeing as how you probably don't know what the cambrian explosion was (until you google it after reading this), or that evolutionary theory is only that, a theory, in truth even Darwin himself recognized that things like the cambrian explosion and lack of observable evolutionary occurance could debunk his theory, and yet out of the theory emerge countless idiots with no real scientific knowledge who unquestioningly obey it. Thus your last 3 words apply to you, not me.

Also evolution is about the survival of the fittest correct?
 
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Calculon

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bshoc said:
My aren't we the angry young leftist?

1. I'm not religious, I just dont believe in your darwinism and athiesm bullshit.
2. ITS A FIGURE OF SPEECH DUMBASS .. tell me what you think this looks like
http://www.missouri.edu/~anthmark/courses/mah/images/apeman.jpg
3. America is a good country, and surprisingly their freedom of speech laws are better than ours.

Seeing as how you probably don't know what the cambrian explosion was (until you google it after reading this), or that evolutionary theory is only that, a theory, in truth even Darwin himself recognized that things like the cambrian explosion and lack of observable evolutionary occurance could debunk his theory, and yet out of the theory emerge countless idiots with no real scientific knowledge who unquestioningly obey it. Thus your last 3 words apply to you, not me.

Also evolution is about the survival of the fittest correct?
Yeah, believing in evolution makes you leftist.

Says the faggot who believes HECS shouldn't cover 100% of a student's education, doesn't support property rights, VSU, IR or anything about the free market.

Go back to Cuba you fucking communist, you're not welcome here.
 

crazyhomo

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bshoc said:
This is what evolutionary sciences dictate humans evolved from

http://www.missouri.edu/~anthmark/courses/mah/images/apeman.jpg

Call it what you want, I'll call it a monkey
we need more people like you in the field of biology. clearly the current system is far too "specific" when it comes to differentiating between species. no more gorillas, chimpanzees or orangutans. get rid of primates altogether. let's just call them what they look like

monkeys
 
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gerhard

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crazyhomo said:
we need more people like you in the field of biology. clearly the current system is far too "specific" when it comes to differentiating between species. no more gorillas, chimpanzees or orangutans. get rid of primates altogether. let's just call them what they look like

monkeys
this brought the lols
 

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crazyhomo said:
we need more people like you in the field of biology. clearly the current system is far too "specific" when it comes to differentiating between species. no more gorillas, chimpanzees or orangutans. get rid of primates altogether. let's just call them what they look like

monkeys
What about a biology field that doesent blindly accept one random explanation for creature development on the planet, even in the time of Darwin there was real scientific process, now you have this theory, evolution, pushed by most biologists even though there are 3 specific cases that contradict it entirely, even Darwin admitted those 3 (or back in his times, 2) could dislodge his theory. Also learn what a figure of speech is, your call is stupid.
 

gerhard

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have you ever seen a monkey give birth to a human?
 

crazyhomo

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bshoc said:
learn what a figure of speech is
A figure of speech, sometimes termed a rhetorical , or elocution, is a word or phrase that departs from straightforward, literal language.
bshoc said:
Call it what you want, I'll call it a monkey
bshoc said:
bshoc said:
Actually if you want to believe you evolved from a monkey, great, just so long as you believe that I didn't.
we also need you to be in charge of literary devices. my stupid teachers told me that a figure of speech was a phrase intended not to be taken literally. maybe you could inform them that a more accurate definition would be:

a retroactive term, used by infallible beings, applied to previous statements which prove them to be talking shit. "omg, i can't believe you thought i was wrong. it was a figure of speech you moran loloz"
 
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