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Ban on Gay Marriage (3 Viewers)

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omg_a

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this whole thread is utterly depressing. I always thought it was old people who couldn't even say 'gay' who were against gay marriage. Now i find out the discrimination is well and truly alive in my own generation. how little progress we have made. sad.
 

Enlightened_One

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A little note, don't confuse gay discrimination with anti - gay marriage.

It's two different things. Some people who accept homosexuality and are ok with it argue against gay marriage - not on the grounds of their sexuality or choice in life - but their belief that marriage is a sacred, religious ideal.

Being against gay marriage and gay discrimination are not always the same thing.
 

johnson

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Enlightened_One said:
A little note, don't confuse gay discrimination with anti - gay marriage.

It's two different things. Some people who accept homosexuality and are ok with it argue against gay marriage - not on the grounds of their sexuality or choice in life - but their belief that marriage is a sacred, religious ideal.

Being against gay marriage and gay discrimination are not always the same thing.
..so basically, you're saying that homosexual relationships are not sacred?
 

Enlightened_One

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johnson said:
..so basically, you're saying that homosexual relationships are not sacred?

No, read the post and you'll understand. I know people who accept gays but don't accept gay marriage because they believe marriage a sacred insitution created by god. Gay marriages are not sanctioned by god so they object to the marriage on religious grounds, though they accpet gays.
 

Xayma

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Enlightened_One said:
No, read the post and you'll understand. I know people who accept gays but don't accept gay marriage because they believe marriage a sacred insitution created by god. Gay marriages are not sanctioned by god so they object to the marriage on religious grounds, though they accpet gays.
And I'm sure those marriages between atheists are sanctioned?

What about the laws that come with marriage are they sanctioned by God (funny for a christian to refer to God as god).
 

lukebennett

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marriage as people have said is an institution created by God so it makes sense that it is not for gays. what i find confusing is that people who arent christians also get married and there is not a problem seen with that but there is for gay marriage. i guess it is because heterosexual marriage is accepted by God in the bible. as asquithian said in another thread i think that gays should just have a civil union which involves similar things but it is not the same as marriage.
 

Xayma

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Well the churchs are involved with the state through marriage.

Rename marriage to civil unions, then everybody has civil unions. If they want a marriage, just let it be a civil union recognised by the church, which would be a civil union conducted in a church between male and female. The church should shut up and stay out of the state's matters.

In a related issue, before the issue of children is brought up again:
Maggie McKee said:
Lesbian couples raise well-adjusted teenagers

17:25 15 November 04

NewScientist.com news service



Teenagers raised by lesbian mothers show no developmental differences compared to those brought up by heterosexual parents, according to the first large national study in the US.

Previous research has focused mainly on younger children and found no significant disparities in child welfare between same-sex and heterosexual families.

But few studies have been done on adolescents, who some researchers think may be more prone to - or conscious of - discrimination against their families. Others have speculated whether a teens' own sexuality is affected by that of their parents.

"There's been this debate about whether being raised by single-sex couples is good or bad for children," says Stephen Russell, a sociologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson, US. "We would call into question suggestions that growing up with single-sex parents is somehow problematic."


12,000 interviews

Russell and colleagues Charlotte Patterson and Jennifer Wainright at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, US, came to this conclusion after sifting through interviews from 1995 with about 12,000 US teenagers and their families. The teens were part of the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, the largest and most comprehensive study of the age group in the US.

"This is the best available evidence to date about how adolescent children fare in families with single-sex parents," Russell told New Scientist.

The researchers found 44 teens being raised by two women in a "marriage-like" relationship. Only six teens reported living with two gay men, so male single-sex families were excluded from the study.

Each teen studied was matched with a counterpart from a heterosexual family, who shared the same sex, age, ethnicity, adoption status and family income, among other factors.


Same-sex attractions

The researchers found no differences between the two groups in terms of depression, anxiety, self-esteem and school grades. Exactly the same proportion of both groups also reported having had sex (34%).

But while a previous study suggested children of gay parents were more likely to consider homosexual relationships, this study was unable to provide such information because so few teens reported same-sex attractions and romances.

The single most important predictor of the teens' well being, the study showed, was their relationship with parents - regardless of family type. “What's really important is the quality of the relationship," Russell told New Scientist.

As a result, the authors write that their findings "provide no justification for limitations on child custody or visitation by lesbian mothers" and "do not support the idea that lesbian and gay adults are less likely than others to provide good adoptive or foster homes".

Russell says future studies could see how the same group of teens fared in young adulthood.

Journal reference: Child Development (vol 75, p 1886)


Maggie McKee
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996670
 
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katie_tully

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This is a bit like the abortion debate..
Religion has no place in politics in the year 2000.
 

lukebennett

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yeah that seems to be true but no one is arguing that. we are discussing why gay marriage is not accepted there is no real argument. Religion does have relevance in the politics of the year 2000+ if you havent noticed the whole islamic vs christian dilemma which has been going on for goodness knows how long.
 

eviltama

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islamic vs christian dilemma? i don't see a dilemma.. i just see 2 religions.

Religion has no place in politics, true. Politics has no place behind closed doors and under the bed sheets. Religion also has no place under the bed sheets. The church has no say in legal matters and legality has very little say in church matters. Marriage is a legal matter BEFORE it is a church matter. So hence all this churchy religious stuff has no place in the same sex marriage issue. If churches don't want to allow same sex couples to marry under their roofs or be married by their priests then FINE. If getting homosexuals recognised and accepted by the church was the issue then i might care, but being decidedly anti-religious, the churches can go do what they want. But what they can't do, and should never be allowed to do is interfere with politics and the running of a country. You cannot force people to accept your religion and you cannot force people to follow your beliefs.

Same-sex marriage is a primarily a legal issue, and should be dealt as such. But its not being dealt with like that, religion is sticking its nose in somewhere it doesn't belong and once again causing trouble in an area that it has no business in being in. Same-sex marriage should be allowed as from a legal standpoint, giving same-sex couples the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexual couples. To be married you don't have to marry in a church, with a priest or even in front of your family so the church can go make its own rules and regulations up as it does, but it can sure as hell leave its nose out of the same-sex marriage issue.

It was wrong for Howard to pass a legislation based on his own religious preferences and put the church before the people of the country hes supposed to be working for.
 

lukebennett

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no dilemma? yes there are two religions but look at all those problems in israel due to religion. lots of today's politics is revolving around terrorism which has occured due to religion. alot of diplomacy in places such as australia has been needed due to how multi racial australia is with our arab population.

i understand how you think same sex marriage is a legal issue but its not totally. religious groups still have influence on this as australia is considered a christian nation and same sex marriage is morally wrong in many peoples eyes. religion in society has had an affect on the progress of same sex marriage, however it is more legal though.

but religion still has a place in politics it is just less of a place than once before
 

Not-That-Bright

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:rolleyes:
Watch the news, i think you'll find the neverlands is in the middle of a religious crisis, they have a very liberal immigration policy and because of that there is a fair ammount of muslims in that country.
After the killing of that guy that made the anti-muslim documentary and the threats made to leaders who might make a stance against the muslim extremists the country has gone kinda crazy, there have been attacks on churches and mosques..

But nevermind about that, and they contributed alot less.
 

Not-That-Bright

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I think you'd find that australia is a fairly secular society, with around 10-14% professing to be atheist, agnostic, etc.

They have very liberal attitudes and now it would seem they are almost in the middle of a religious war.
 

Xayma

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In refrence to Not-That-Bright's comment I had a post there, which I removed when he was typing it. For various reasons, I was focusing mainly on the current troop numbers. I removed it due to erronous issues and wording. And again, I'm just trying to express it clearly.
 

Phanatical

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I don't support Gay marriage, since marriage as an institution has always had a religious grounding, even in non-western societies. Many of my gay classmates in fact don't support gay marriage, for this same reason, and also because gay marriage is an attempt to "straighten" the gay community, or something like that. Whatever their reasons, there are many gay people against gay marriage. There are also lots of straight people against gay marriage.
 
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