Australian Politics (2 Viewers)

[Lex152]

fuck im going to hit lentern one day.
you see, there are some people who just dont see the real picture, and lentern is one of them
the bloke will die defending labor, i am yet to see such committed liberals around bos.

No you guys don't defend a party, you defend their libs rhetoric. The problem is that labor is now closing in and copying the libs rhetoric in many areas...

Just because people defend a party in a different way it does not mean that those die-hards don't exist.

 

[Lex152]

I've seen the programs these numbskulls watch on TV, the radio programs the listen to, the way they drive, the way they speak, it reeksof a disgusting,disgraceful apathy from which breeds ignorance, meanwhile the intellectual cream of our crop jump through hoops to woo these people? They should not be forced to vote, heck it is one of the shortcomings of democracy that these people are allowed to vote. It's a two way street, I don't expect my lecturers to respect my assignments if I don't do the readings and these people should not expect me to respect the way they make political decissions if their understanding of the previous election was that Howard wanted to go for growth whilst Kevin wanted new leadership.

Lentern you have a long way to go in maturing. You may have some knowledge or readings of past political discourse but your morals are AWOL.
Don't go demanding knowledge of people ("breeds ignorance"), people all have a choice in leading their life, it's not your place to force anything on them.

Intellectual cream?Politics rarely contribute much to government, they are in the practice of playing politics. I want to see a return of apolitical government bodies, who can plan government spending without it being dictated by guys who think they know best. The NBN was a joke, a farce.

Should not be forced to vote? No bloody way, the americans use that system and I think it sucks. I think everyone should be made to vote as it is a responsibility of the citizen.


Furthermore when you say you want people to admit that Rudd will last more than a term... Well fine he is a damn good bureaucrat but has no core conviction beyond media manipulation.

Sorry if this reads as a personal attack, you seem to be copping it a bit, I just strongly disagree.

 

[incentivation]

The left do like to criticise Howard, saying his 'gravitas' and 'man of conviction' tags are all fabrications of the political imagination. I disagree.

Obviously, like any politician there were instances where he chose the easy option. However,this was not embedded into his political psyche.

On issues such as reconciliation, workplace reform, the republic etc, he chose to take the path he thought was appropriate and stood by those ideas (no matter how ideologically driven they were).

I doubt we will ever see Rudd choose to take such approaches. He is a populist who craves this popularity. The election campaign was testament to this.

If the government is a 'one term wonder' (I hate that cliche but for some reason I used it), or indeed a two term government, I don't believe that it will be remembered fondly. There haven't been the sweeping reforms of Whitlam and Hawke to nullify what will be perceived to be fiscal mismanagement.

I'm with blue_chameleon. There is not one ounce of sincerity about Rudd. His speeches are read with little expression, and he tries to be everything to everyone. I mean, his heart lies in the classical compositions of Bach and Mozart, yet he tries to purport that he is this Australian bloke with a passion for Cricket and the Brisbane Broncos.

When in Victoria during the bushfires, he was seen to be hugging the victims ,as any Prime Minister would. The difference between Rudd and his predecessors if that his hugs seemed more like the hug you'd give your mother-in-law, rather than one of compassion. Again, this lack of sincerity overrides all else.

Yet dispite all of this, his popularity remains strong at this point. I think it will take evidence of the failure of the stimulus packages to arise as well as stability in opposition ranks for the polls to reflect my sentiments.

 

[Iron]

I think that there should be laws to imprision and taser people who trash the stimulus packages. They only work if we believe in them. We need HOPE

Yer, we'll give the nay-sayers a special kind of stimulus, yer thas righ

 

[spiny norman]

If the government is a 'one term wonder' (I hate that cliche but for some reason I used it), or indeed a two term government, I don't believe that it will be remembered fondly. There haven't been the sweeping reforms of Whitlam and Hawke to nullify what will be perceived to be fiscal mismanagement.

Agreed (well not entirely on the mismanagement front, we'll need to wait and see there).

There is not one ounce of sincerity about Rudd. His speeches are read with little expression, and he tries to be everything to everyone. I mean, his heart lies in the classical compositions of Bach and Mozart, yet he tries to purport that he is this Australian bloke with a passion for Cricket and the Brisbane Broncos.

Because Howard never faked being a true blue Aussie bloke.

When in Victoria during the bushfires, he was seen to be hugging the victims ,as any Prime Minister would. The difference between Rudd and his predecessors if that his hugs seemed more like the hug you'd give your mother-in-law, rather than one of compassion.

Disagreed. I think it's a bit rough to say he was insincere in his attempts to bring comfort to the victims of that. It's not like he's some evil bastard whose heart is closed when seeing that kind of suffering in person. While he wasn't as emotional during the crisis as, say, Brumby or Gillard, I think it hazardous to begin claiming he wasn't sufficiently moved.

 

[incentivation]

Disagreed. I think it's a bit rough to say he was insincere in his attempts to bring comfort to the victims of that. It's not like he's some evil bastard whose heart is closed when seeing that kind of suffering in person. While he wasn't as emotional during the crisis as, say, Brumby or Gillard, I think it hazardous to begin claiming he wasn't sufficiently moved.

Yeah I agree in that regard. I don't think he wasn't moved. Most people would be. He just has this exterior which prevents his true emotions from being seen. I guess its part and parcel of being in the world of politics.

 

[Enteebee]

tbh the bushfire deaths were overhyped anyway.

 

[incentivation]

Really? I struggled to find anything on the television or in the newspapers about the whole thing.

 

[incentivation]

Interesting read.

PM's cheap money shot | The Australian

 

[blue_chameleon]

Because Howard never faked being a true blue Aussie bloke.

This brings to mind the shocking attempt at bowling, and then to make the matter worse, fumbling the ball twice when thrown to him.

Ah, good memories.

 

[Iron]

PAULINE'S MELTDOWN: Hanson lashes out in TV interview > National > LIVENEWS.com.au

Watch!

A+ Aussie drama

 

[SAVAK]

I actually feel sorry for her.

Fucking Media.

 

[Lentern]

I don't mean to belittle you Lentern, but you're still very young. Whilst you may not see it yet, once you get a few years life experience, you start to realise how very little you actually really know.

In regards to the Howard comment of him not having gravitas, I think it'd take some balls to stand up infront of a hall full of Indigenous australians back in 1994 and command the views of his government in the way he did. I certainly couldn't see Rudd doing that.

This wasn't him being diplomatic or playing smart politics, it was him telling it like he saw it. Of all the available evidence laid out over his term, you're calling Howard uncommanding and weak in beliefs?

On the other hand, Rudd/Labor rolled over within months of winning the election and apologised to the Indigenous, of which the benefits to Australia as a whole today I still fail to see.

You're only reinforcing my earlier comment on your intent here.

Iron said it best I think a while ago when she said that Howard was much like a bull terrier snapping at the heals of democracy. By no means was he dislikeable, but if Howard has gravitas your just handing the term out like whooping cough vaccinations. At that address to the indigenous Australians he was not gracious or controlled, but that doesn't equate to commanding or strong. He resembled a child throwing a tantrum, at best he looked audacious, but as history unfolds and authors invent contexts these events get rewritten.

His supposedly greatest moment, the launch of the campaign in 2001 was extremely political, the theme the liberal party had been pushing prior to the tampa pulling into christmas island had nothing to do with national security. In about forty eight hours John Howard, that issues driven, conviction politician rewrote what he stood for, National security, something he barely used to talk about became what he was all about.

Howard was very likeable, that he was a poor orator, physically unimpressive, a slight speech impediment, no great ability to think on his feet etc made him very endearing, "he was an ordinary bloke." But the conviction, gravitas, strength tags are bollocks. He used to shout and lose composure. History has described that trend as some garbage like "being open and frank with the Australian public instead of namby pamby pandering." It's not hard to describe Rudd's percieved lack of emotion however as "Standing composed and strong in the face of adversity, whilst other leaders were humbled Rudd proved a real rock for Australia, just as they really needed one."

And now I will demand of you an answer, how does my suggestion that Rudd and Howard are going to be very similar characters when all is said and done equate to labor hackery? I know labor hacks they'll deny Howard has any such legacy, that most view his premiership as a blot on our nations history and Rudd will be viewed as the man who lead Australia out of it's darkest days etc etc etc.

 

[Iron]

Our Howard is DEAD! *SLLLLAP!*

 

[Lentern]

Do you really believe this?

I don't think Rudd will be immortalised at all, even by Labor. He is too cold to be loved, yet alone immortalised. To suggest that 70% of people will immortalise/respect Rudd is overstating it by around 40%.

You will disagree with me Lentern, but I think history will show Rudd as the greatest recipient of the perfect storm for opposition - voter antipathy for the incumbent government, a great PM who went past his use-by date, a very damaging PR war between Howard and the only man in politics possibly more smug than Rudd. Basically, Rudd won because he was sufficiently vanilla bland. He didn't look like a PM to make controversial decisions. A man for the times, if you will.

Except, those times changed with the GFC. We went from needing vanilla bland to a government - specifically, a treasurer - who knew what to do.

The multiple failures of the stimulus packages, the stolen generation apology, the internet censorship plan, global warming and now the attempt to reintroduce CSU are just too socialist/populist for the average voter imo.

Yes i agree Rudd is a populist, he is boring and I think this little except from Paul Kelly in the Aus a fews years back just about says it all

"During the 1980s there was an orthodoxy about Howard - that he was the reforming spearhead of the Coalition, but weak on politics. Yet the orthodoxy today is more likely to be the reverse that Howard is an adept politician with doubts about his ability to implement genuine change."

Oh wait

 

[SAVAK]

funny how every labor supporter you speak to will say they are against the internet censorship plan, global warming policies, reintroduction of CSU etc etc.

deep down they love these polices.

Fuck ALP
vote LDP

 

[Lentern]

Lentern you have a long way to go in maturing. You may have some knowledge or readings of past political discourse but your morals are AWOL.
Don't go demanding knowledge of people ("breeds ignorance"), people all have a choice in leading their life, it's not your place to force anything on them.

Intellectual cream?Politics rarely contribute much to government, they are in the practice of playing politics. I want to see a return of apolitical government bodies, who can plan government spending without it being dictated by guys who think they know best. The NBN was a joke, a farce.

Should not be forced to vote? No bloody way, the americans use that system and I think it sucks. I think everyone should be made to vote as it is a responsibility of the citizen.


Furthermore when you say you want people to admit that Rudd will last more than a term... Well fine he is a damn good bureaucrat but has no core conviction beyond media manipulation.

Sorry if this reads as a personal attack, you seem to be copping it a bit, I just strongly disagree.

I don't believe that people shouldn't be allowed to be content with their ignorance merely if they are then they really shouldn't be voting. The flaw of America is it's people, not it's constitution, Democracy can only deliver as good a government as the people allow it to. I don't like Rudd! I have never liked him, However I believe his ability to manipulate the media and pander to the right interest groups at the right time is what will win him labels as a conviction politician and a strong figure and basically every compliment under the sun for a politician. When you hear people saying that John Howard and Bob Carr have charisma, you know that it's the position that makes the man and not the other way round.

 

[Silver Persian]

I will slap the next person who calls Lentern immature. Trying to seize the intellectual high ground with an appeal to age is retarded.

 

[Iron]

Shut up fag

 

[moll.]

I will slap the next person who calls Lentern immature. Trying to seize the intellectual high ground with an appeal to age is retarded.

True.
Intellectual merit should instead be measured by the number of posts each user has. For example, Iron is more intelligent than yourself, who is smarter than me, but I am cleverer than Lentern.
See? Flawless.