Australian Citizenship Test (2 Viewers)

[Tulipa]

And doesn't anyone object to cricket being considered an Australian value?

I do.

It's not something that everyone in Australia is raving mad over and it doesn't define the Australian people.

 

[katie_tully]

Not now, but if you look at cricket historically it really was one of the foundations of sportsmanship, mateship, etc.
Now it's just tabloid fodder.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

It doesn't matter if cricket is an Australian value or not. The citizenship information book says bradman played cricket and so having read the book you should be able to answer that question.

 

[Tulipa]

It doesn't matter if cricket is an Australian value or not. The citizenship information book says bradman played cricket and so having read the book you should be able to answer that question.

However, the stated point of the test is for people applying for citizenship to know the values of Australia.

If the test doesn't do that, what's the point?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

However, the stated point of the test is for people applying for citizenship to know the values of Australia.

If the test doesn't do that, what's the point?

There are some values questions, there just aren't 200 of them that can be used to randomly generate a set of 20 for people to answer. Since everyone should be reading the information book first anyway they will (should) know the values even if they don't get 15 questions on them.

Obviously the test is pretty silly but any changes to make it "better" would also make it harder and there are already too many people bitching about doing a test at all. I think what we have is a reasonable compromise.

 

[Tulipa]

Why have a test in the first place then?

There's already quite a great deal of criteria you have to meet in the first place. If there needs to be a test, I think a more law/value based test would make sense. Australia trivia is superfluous and idiotic here.

Since everyone should be reading the information book first anyway they will (should) know the values even if they don't get 15 questions on them.

It doesn't matter if they're reading the book or not, or whether they get all the questions right. It's about the idea and intent behind the test.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Why have a test in the first place then?

....because there needs to be one. Something is better than nothing at all.

There's already quite a great deal of criteria you have to meet in the first place. If there needs to be a test, I think a more law/value based test would make sense. Australia trivia is superfluous and idiotic here.

There are laws and value questions in this one and it doesn't hurt to know some Australian history.

I think the 'trivia' should stay, even if that means making the test 50 questions and making sure 30 of those are law/value based... but then everyone is going to complain even more that it is too hard.

It doesn't matter if they're reading the book or not, or whether they get all the questions right. It's about the idea and intent behind the test.

It doesn't matter if they read the book and pass the test and don't agree with any of it. By doing the test they agree to respect Australians laws, values and trivia and they can't complain later that they weren't informed.

 

[Tulipa]

....because there needs to be one. Something is better than nothing at all.

What was wrong with the old system? What is this going to fix?

It doesn't matter if they read the book and pass the test and don't agree with any of it. By doing the test they agree to respect Australians laws, values and trivia and they can't complain later that they weren't informed.

That's done by becoming a citizen. You actually have to say that in the citizenship ceremony.

So is this basically to stop new Australians complaining that they didn't know the law when they committed a crime? That's a laughable defense, even if it is employed. If that is the reason though, then why not come out and say it?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

What was wrong with the old system? What is this going to fix?

That's done by becoming a citizen. You actually have to say that in the citizenship ceremony.

So is this basically to stop new Australians complaining that they didn't know the law when they committed a crime? That's a laughable defense, even if it is employed. If that is the reason though, then why not come out and say it?

It didn't force people to be informed about Australia before they became a citizen. This makes people work harder.

A test does it better.

I don't mean to stop it as a defense for breaking laws. I mean it to stop is as an excuse for demanding special treatment and stuff.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

stupid idea. knowing the values of the country doesn't mean you agree to follow them. besides, if you're a migrant whose level of english is only basic then your study and answering of the questions is going to more than likely be based on rote memory; there's no guarantee that you'll actually understand fully what you're being asked. also i object strongly to the inclusion of questions that are more or less a 'who's who' in Australian history or whatever, like the question in the first post about cricket. how the hell is that relevant to anything. Questions about the rights and responsibilities of citizens i'm tentatively okay with, but questions along the lines of "what is pavlova" etc etc are just silly.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

also i object strongly to the inclusion of questions that are more or less a 'who's who' in Australian history or whatever, like the question in the first post about cricket. how the hell is that relevant to anything. Questions about the rights and responsibilities of citizens i'm tentatively okay with, but questions along the lines of "what is pavlova" etc etc are just silly.

The questions are irrelevant. It's about making people put some effort into becoming a citizen instead of getting something for nothing.

 

[katie_tully]

It is pretty easy to fake being sincere, I do it everyday, but regardless of the test, regardless of the citizenship ceremony, regardless of whether they say they understand and respect Australian law/values there will always be some that fake being sincere. No test and no ceremony can determine who is being honest.

The system is extremely flawed and I just feel like this test is a band-aid solution. I don't know if it's because people are scared of making the criteria to enter this country more strict or whats going on, but this test isn't the answer.

 

[Tulipa]

It didn't force people to be informed about Australia before they became a citizen. This makes people work harder.

A test does it better.

Like Cosmic Doris just pointed out, most of this will be from rote memory instead of actually learning the values.

Also, who cares about Don Bradman? Or what the flower is? I'm sure they're a few Australians who wouldn't know the answer to some of these questions.

I don't mean to stop it as a defense for breaking laws. I mean it to stop is as an excuse for demanding special treatment and stuff.

Like what? I'd love an example because right now it feels like you're clutching at straws to explain this.

The questions are irrelevant. It's about making people put some effort into becoming a citizen instead of getting something for nothing.

It's not exactly easy at the moment. You don't just get it handed to you. Depending on your visa or status of permanent residency it can take quite a while and cost quite a bit.

 

[katie_tully]

I don't mean to stop it as a defense for breaking laws. I mean it to stop is as an excuse for demanding special treatment and stuff

There are plenty of Australian born citizens who don't know the answer to most of these questions and they still get special treatment and stuff. I like to call them the Thursday Lunchtime Special people.

 

[Martyno1]

I don't know number 3. I am so un-Australian!

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Like Cosmic Doris just pointed out, most of this will be from rote memory instead of actually learning the values.

Also, who cares about Don Bradman? Or what the flower is? I'm sure they're a few Australians who wouldn't know the answer to some of these questions.

Like what? I'd love an example because right now it feels like you're clutching at straws to explain this.

It's not exactly easy at the moment. You don't just get it handed to you. Depending on your visa or status of permanent residency it can take quite a while and cost quite a bit.

All that proves is that we should be tougher on English ability of people.

It doesn't matter who cares. If someone wants to become a citizen they just need to answer them.

Like muslims wanting to enforce sharia law in some parts of the community where they are dominant.

So its a little bit harder. Who cares.

There are plenty of Australian born citizens who don't know the answer to most of these questions and they still get special treatment and stuff. I like to call them the Thursday Lunchtime Special people.

A lot of people use that argument... as far as I am concerned that fact that plenty of Australians are stupid it is irrelevant. They were born here so they don't need to pass any tests.

 

[Tulipa]

A lot of people use that argument... as far as I am concerned that fact that plenty of Australians are stupid it is irrelevant. They were born here so they don't need to pass any tests.

Even if they're the Muslims who want to enforce Sharia law in the areas you're talking about? Is that then okay because they were born here?

 

[katie_tully]

I wasn't saying they have to pass the test. I'm saying they're dumb and they get special treatment.

You think the immigrants aren't going to get special treatment even if they pass the test? Of course they are. Nobody is going to say 'oh you passed the test, you should know this law, too bad', they're going to pat them on the head.

The test is a smoke screen for lack of a better process and it doesn't change anything once they get in.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Even if they're the Muslims who want to enforce Sharia law in the areas you're talking about? Is that then okay because they were born here?

So because the parents who should know better don't pass this information onto their children it is the governments fault.... that makes sense.

 

[Martyno1]

I just want to say something in regards to the "you need to be good at English to become a citizen" argument. Twenty-six years ago my mother came to Australia not knowing a single word of English. Ten years later she became an ESL teacher along with a teacher of her native tongues (French and Arabic).

My views aren't as radical as that you don't need to know how to speak English at all to become a citizen. I think that you'd need to know the basics of English that would help you get around, possibly with the help of some other people or something, but it should ultimately be the choice of the person wanting citizenship - hard lifestyle with no English at all, or knowing English and having a better one?

So yeah I'm obviously against this citizenship test.