Are you comfortable with 24/7 Government Surveillance? (6 Viewers)

[seventhroot]

Do you know how many people have been charged with conspiracy for terrorist activity, without trial and hearing in the USA?

Look up the PATRIOT act, and look up the Australian ASIO laws (kind of an equivalent)

yes I am aware. For example Dr Muhammad Hanif was arrested on suspected terrorism charges back in 06 (iirc), and from there it was made clear how he (or anyone for that matter) was treated. Even the $1.6 mill payout IMO wouldn't have been satisfactory.

But what I am saying is that this auto system will be 100% perfect, built to resist, and will only give relevant information when it is at least "98% sure". yes there a 2% margin of error but when you think about it; it is compiling information on everyone and everything so it will be unlikely that it is wrong too often

How can you guarantee that the government, and security agencies, which since they began, have engaged in covert operation and lying, will not misuse your personal information and statements? How naive can one get when they think "oh lol they gon see my pron xD". Do you not realise that you are really just handing all of your personal information, statements to a large organisation with the power to subdue you, blackmail you and destroy your life without anyone knowing?

but there is no one person/team handling it, in fact no-one handles it. it is only one big supa computer that is collecting and processing all this huge amounts of data.

the system will remain 100% auto and no-one will ever have access to it again after one has built such a system.

Large scale NSA surveillance in the USA has not stopped the mass amount of school shootings, 911, the Boston Bombings and so on

but think about the things that it has saves and could potentially save in the future.

this NSA surveillance is NOT rigorous enough; think about it; there was maybe one or 2 people watching the security camera at when all hell broke loose.

this system I am proposing could have "seen such event coming", in such bombings, or 9/11 for example; there would have been some or in the case of 9/11 a lot of planning. No one wakes up one morning and says "right, today I will take down 2 towers today". the planning terrorist use could be picked up by the system like buying tones of C4 or weapons, etc

Large scale surveillance does not allow for the basic human right of privacy, and freedom to think as one wants. The secular justice system was founded with the vision of charging people with their actions, not their thoughts, by giving the government all of our information and statements (which they kind of already have), we are simply moving one step closer to George Orwell's 1984 and the thought police.

but is there really anything wrong with having a place where you are protected? You can stil move freely and go about your day but now you know that if something is going to go wrong; there are countermeasures in place

 

[D94]

well there hasn't been many major attacks since 9/11 so that might say something?

um...Bali bombings (2002), Madrid train bombing (2004), London bombings (2005) etc.

The recent spread of ISIL is a major attack on the norms of civilisation.

 

[seventhroot]

um...Bali bombings (2002), Madrid train bombing (2004), London bombings (2005) etc.

The recent spread of ISIL is a major attack on the norms of civilisation.

all the more reason to have something like this to prevent such tragedies.


what do you think D94? do you want something (not someone) watching over you?

--------------

my apologies with such comment "been many major attacks since 9/11 so that might say something" I just had a mind blank and couldn't think of any

 

[faisalabdul16]

can you give a reason? I mean some computer thing is going to know what porn you're into

Lol ensures our safety This in regards to terrorism and all, i myself am a muslim and know so many people who have adopted the beliefs of the extremist ISIS group, and i would not be surprised if they begin enforcing some cruel shit amongst community members, which poses as a massive threat to the freedom of Australians. Security is needed.

 

[seventhroot]

Lol ensures our safety This in regards to terrorism and all, i myself am a muslim and know so many people who have adopted the beliefs of the extremist ISIS group, and i would not be surprised if they begin enforcing some cruel shit amongst community members, which poses as a massive threat to the freedom of Australians. Security is needed.

yes; there will be safe guards in place. such system would be programmed 100% correctly (assuming it will be possible in the future) and will not be subjective, make assumptions or be half as racist as me. it will have all the information to make a proper 100% objective and unbiased judgement

 

[Sy123]

yes I am aware. For example Dr Muhammad Hanif was arrested on suspected terrorism charges back in 06 (iirc), and from there it was made clear how he (or anyone for that matter) was treated. Even the $1.6 mill payout IMO wouldn't have been satisfactory.

"Suspected"

"Alleged"

This seems to be a common theme with these arrests, as has been with everyone who is "caught" by invading surveillance. One day you say something critical about the government, next day FBI comes to your door, tells you you've been arrested for suspected terrorism, and then you're in Guantanamo bay awaiting a concealed military trial in which anything can happen.

But what I am saying is that this auto system will be 100% perfect, built to resist, and will only give relevant information when it is at least "98% sure". yes there a 2% margin of error but when you think about it; it is compiling information on everyone and everything so it will be unlikely that it is wrong too often

There is no way to guarentee that such an 'auto' system is possible without having the government intervene in some way
It seems like a very far fetched idea

but there is no one person/team handling it, in fact no-one handles it. it is only one big supa computer that is collecting and processing all this huge amounts of data.

the system will remain 100% auto and no-one will ever have access to it again after one has built such a system.

That is completely impossible, and just because there is no civil reason for the government to access it themselves, doesn't mean the government and other security agencies will try to access it for whatever purposes they wish, by making it government oriented, you are essentially giving all this continual information to the government

but think about the things that it has saves and could potentially save in the future.

this NSA surveillance is NOT rigorous enough; think about it; there was maybe one or 2 people watching the security camera at when all hell broke loose.

this system I am proposing could have "seen such event coming", in such bombings, or 9/11 for example; there would have been some or in the case of 9/11 a lot of planning. No one wakes up one morning and says "right, today I will take down 2 towers today". the planning terrorist use could be picked up by the system like buying tones of C4 or weapons, etc

The NSA is incredibly rigorous, they have people going through everything, there is no guarantee that lives will be saved, all the past events have shown that greater survelliance does very little, and in fact degrades the basic human rights of people

but is there really anything wrong with having a place where you are protected? You can stil move freely and go about your day but now you know that if something is going to go wrong; there are countermeasures in place

The problem is your assumption that the government would never use this information for covert means

 

[Gary_Oak]

"Suspected"

"Alleged"

This seems to be a common theme with these arrests, as has been with everyone who is "caught" by invading surveillance. One day you say something critical about the government, next day FBI comes to your door, tells you you've been arrested for suspected terrorism, and then you're in Guantanamo bay awaiting a concealed military trial in which anything can happen.



There is no way to guarentee that such an 'auto' system is possible without having the government intervene in some way
It seems like a very far fetched idea





That is completely impossible, and just because there is no civil reason for the government to access it themselves, doesn't mean the government and other security agencies will try to access it for whatever purposes they wish, by making it government oriented, you are essentially giving all this continual information to the government




The NSA is incredibly rigorous, they have people going through everything, there is no guarantee that lives will be saved, all the past events have shown that greater survelliance does very little, and in fact degrades the basic human rights of people





The problem is your assumption that the government would never use this information for covert means

Okay... whatever.... just don't come crying back to the government if you/your family/friends get killed by these nutters.

 

[faisalabdul16]

Even if you're against government surveillance, it probably occurs. They probably do not care about privacy or whatever. They need to ensure the safety of the nation and they'll take all measures possible to do so.

 

[D94]

What if another crime was discovered in this process of protecting national security? Are you suggesting the government would not report it? I think that's a bit naive.

boredofstudies posts

IMO; I think it would be alright.

So do you remember that occasion where another member was distributing adult material to a forum that was targeted at high school students? Don't you reckon that member's IP should be given to the Police to investigate, and if shown that there was distribution, that member should be arrested and jailed? Hmm...

IMO, this idea is completely unacceptable, regardless of whether or not you are doing nothing wrong. In fact, there would be around 150,000 Sydney-siders in the courts right now if that were the case, for possessing copyright infringing material, i.e. Game of Thrones.

 

[seventhroot]

"Suspected"

"Alleged"

This seems to be a common theme with these arrests, as has been with everyone who is "caught" by invading surveillance. One day you say something critical about the government, next day FBI comes to your door, tells you you've been arrested for suspected terrorism, and then you're in Guantanamo bay awaiting a concealed military trial in which anything can happen.

but as I said before; this system will be close to OR 100% certain. think about it, to be accused, you must have been doing something shady and such a system would be able to pick it up

There is no way to guarentee that such an 'auto' system is possible without having the government intervene in some way
It seems like a very far fetched idea

does it really? what if I hired a thousand computer programmers to work on this for 2 years straight? refer to the last comment

That is completely impossible, and just because there is no civil reason for the government to access it themselves, doesn't mean the government and other security agencies will try to access it for whatever purposes they wish, by making it government oriented, you are essentially giving all this continual information to the government

they may try to access it any any sort of penetration testing is welcome but they will not be able to intervene in such a system

The NSA is incredibly rigorous, they have people going through everything, there is no guarantee that lives will be saved, all the past events have shown that greater survelliance does very little, and in fact degrades the basic human rights of people

the NSA is not 100% rigorous. they can only do so much to stop such tragedies, but having such a system would ensure close to 100% efficiency. for example say "person x" is a suspected terrorist, the NSA, CIA, DoD, ASIO or whatever 3 letter acronym agency would probably not know whether X has chemical weapons in his/her basement

The problem is your assumption that the government would never use this information for covert means

it is not an assumption; that is how it would run. once said system is build and operating, there will be the most complex, advanced encryption on the system that noone will every in the time of the universe will be able to crack it like using Ackerman's function

 

[seventhroot]

What if another crime was discovered in this process of protecting national security? Are you suggesting the government would not report it? I think that's a bit naive.

if another serious crime was discovered (such as murder, trafficking, etc); then it will be automatically programmed to send relevant details to the authorities. something like fare evading is "not worth the time"

So do you remember that occasion where another member was distributing adult material to a forum that was targeted at high school students? Don't you reckon that member's IP should be given to the Police to investigate, and if shown that there was distribution, that member should be arrested and jailed? Hmm...

IMO, this idea is completely unacceptable, regardless of whether or not you are doing nothing wrong. In fact, there would be around 150,000 Sydney-siders in the courts right now if that were the case, for possessing copyright infringing material, i.e. Game of Thrones.

yes said member should not have not been doing anything like that especially to mainly high school students. but boredofstudies.org keeps location data on all of us, they could look through their data base and go "yep this is the person who did it and a admin give relevant details to the police". In fact; since he had harmed me in such a way my cousin (3rd year PhD Computer Science) was even able to track him and I have forwarded his details to my local police - investigations are continuing

as for the 150,000 people pirating a TV show is not something I mean by "national security". A business losing some money (apparently, about $350 bill is being lost to piracy each year) is not nearly as important as the lives of many

we should be able to draw the line somewhere but where? is this the problem people are having?

would you like something in said system that filters explicit material from forums like these?

I am saying this system can have the ability to "think like god" and make decisions, and decide whether it is worth pursuing in an objective, unbiased manner. It maybe would also indirectly deter crime?

 

[wannaspoon]

um...Bali bombings (2002), Madrid train bombing (2004), London bombings (2005) etc.

The recent spread of ISIL is a major attack on the norms of civilisation.

How's that War on Terror going???

Power to the people, these surveillance techniques are clearly not working... A person should not be persecuted and monitored for: exposing corruption, speaking out against their governments and corporations, their cultural beliefs, their sexual orientation, etc... That will inevitably happen if the government had their way in relation to surveillance programs...

 

[seventhroot]

How's that War on Terror going???

Power to the people, these surveillance techniques are clearly not working... A person should not be persecuted and monitored for: exposing corruption, speaking out against their governments and corporations, their cultural beliefs, their sexual orientation, etc... That will inevitably happen if the government had their way in relation to surveillance programs...

I am not talking about just some random surveillance program(s). this one cannot be abused by anyone

 

[wannaspoon]

I am not talking about just some random surveillance program(s). this one cannot be abused by anyone

so you are essentially talking about humans being infallible... nao! that's impossible, chief...

 

[seventhroot]

so you are essentially talking about humans being infallible... nao! that's impossible, chief...

aww yisss it is catching on


no humans are fallible that is why I am saying we need a automated system to take care of us

 

[wannaspoon]

aww yisss it is catching on


no humans are fallible that is why I am saying we need a automated system to take care of us

It is still nao...

 

[seventhroot]

It is still nao...

thanks for that

 

[seventhroot]

bump

 

[ChristineL]

I'm fine with it

 

[seventhroot]

I'm fine with it

what makes you comfortable with it? I mean there could be drones in the air locking in on your location every time you're going to the supermarket.