Are all the good scholarships becoming "indigenous only"? Discuss. (3 Viewers)

[Ivorytw]

religious scholarships too. what a joke

 

[Aerath]

I also love it how people who are 1/8 indigenous (has like 1 grandparent who is indigenous) claim the same benefits as indigenous Australians. Shithouse policy needs work.

Hypothetically speaking, where would you draw the line though? 1/4? 1/2? Or just abolish Indigenous scholarships altogether?

religious scholarships too. what a joke

Wut. Are you freaking serious?

 

[twistedrebel]

Stop having a cry, Indigenous policies are around so uni's/govt can feel good about itself.

There is plenty of scholarships out (which in most cases in our society shouldn't exist) no matter how many scholarships, people will always say there isnt enough.

The real debate should be why are scholarships even needed, the government pays your HECS. Our current set up has a lot of middle class welfare e.g. abstudy/youth allowance so if you are from an tab below average earning family you get youth allowance. Youth allowance gives you fucking 1k each semester WAY MORE than enough to cover all expenses and it also gives you enough to survive on, if you want more get a fucking job (not hard). But people these days all think they are entitlted to a waterfront penthouse while at uni and buy overly expensive stuff, eat out, drink a shitload then cry rivers on how tough student life is. If you arent a retard with your money, student life is easily manageable.

 

[Gigacube]

also female only scholarships, you got the vote, you got equal pay, what more do ya want?

Women still get a lot of sexist remarks in heavily male-dominated subjects which is why some women avoid studying these at uni. The scholarship encourages more women which is good. You wouldn't want a sausage fest.

I'm sure they have male only scholarships for nursing or another heavily-female dominated area.

 

[izzy88]

There are heaps of different requirements for scholarships and bursaries - and it's because the money for the scholarships are donated by individuals or corporations to the university to fund a particular scholarship.

Generally that person who donates funds will want the scholarship to be awarded to someone from a particular background, or is interested in a particular thing - (eg. usyd bursaries http://sydney.edu.au/stuserv/financial_assistance_office/scholarships.shtml - these bursaries include one that is for the descendant of a WW1 serviceman, one for a son of a minister etc)

The university will generally have to go along with those requirements if they want that donation - one scholarship that is limited in scope is better than no scholarship at all.

 

[twistedrebel]

more women in engineering

 

[Ivorytw]

Anyway, if they're going to be giving these "scholarships" out not regarding academic merit they should be calling them welfareships and stop pretending like the "underprivileged" deserve this under their scholarly achievement.

 

[Aerath]

Women still get a lot of sexist remarks in heavily male-dominated subjects which is why some women avoid studying these at uni. The scholarship encourages more women which is good. You wouldn't want a sausage fest.

I'm sure they have male only scholarships for nursing or another heavily-female dominated area.

Not that I disagree with you or anything - but your rationale doesn't necessarily work for certain fields (law). There are still Lucy Mentoring Programs, and women-only scholarships - however, women make up around 53% of lawyers, and around 54% of law grads.

That would explain why it would make sense for there to be male scholarships for Nursing, and female scholarships for Engineering - but doesn't necessarily explain why there are women-only advantages for women in law.

[Not that I mind it or anything - just raising a point]

 

[kaz1]

Women still get a lot of sexist remarks in heavily male-dominated subjects which is why some women avoid studying these at uni. The scholarship encourages more women which is good. You wouldn't want a sausage fest.

I'm sure they have male only scholarships for nursing or another heavily-female dominated area.

I don't really see a problem with a degree being dominated by a particular gender, why do we even need female engineers?

 

[mecramarathon]

what about academic scholarships (i.e. 99.9+)?

I could make a sweeping generalisation that all those with 99.9+ are financially sound since they can afford to have tutors. Why give them $10k per year?

 

[Gigacube]

Not that I disagree with you or anything - but your rationale doesn't necessarily work for certain fields (law). There are still Lucy Mentoring Programs, and women-only scholarships - however, women make up around 53% of lawyers, and around 54% of law grads.

That would explain why it would make sense for there to be male scholarships for Nursing, and female scholarships for Engineering - but doesn't necessarily explain why there are women-only advantages for women in law.

[Not that I mind it or anything - just raising a point]

I agree with that point. It's good to get women involved in male-dominated areas and vice-versa for men but when there's an even amount of each gender then each gender should receive the same amount of benefits.

 

[izzy88]

Not that I disagree with you or anything - but your rationale doesn't necessarily work for certain fields (law). There are still Lucy Mentoring Programs, and women-only scholarships - however, women make up around 53% of lawyers, and around 54% of law grads.

That would explain why it would make sense for there to be male scholarships for Nursing, and female scholarships for Engineering - but doesn't necessarily explain why there are women-only advantages for women in law.

[Not that I mind it or anything - just raising a point]

I actually don't think there are any women-only scholarships for law at usyd (not that i could find on their website in any case).

I think the issue with Law as a profession is that there are now equal female grads and lawyers, but that hasn't yet set through to partnership levels, where it is still very male dominated. I believe the mentoring programs (at least in firms - not sure if the justification can still work for uni mentoring programs) is to attempt to balance the numbers of women in law firm partnerships.

The number of women in the court/criminal system as well as pretty abysmal - including judges/magistrats etc. There are also particularly bad statistics in terms of female senior solicitors appearing in criminal and civil cases (ie. slim to none).

 

[izzy88]

what about academic scholarships (i.e. 99.9+)?

I could make a sweeping generalisation that all those with 99.9+ are financially sound since they can afford to have tutors. Why give them $10k per year?

I believe those scholarships are generally aimed at tempting bright students to a particular university through money. The universities want the brightest students, and they use money as an incentive (and it works).

I also agree with you, that (as a sweeping generalisation) the people I know to have gotten the 99.9 etc scholarships do not need the money - most I know have used it to pay off their hecs debts up front.

 

[tambam]

That would explain why it would make sense for there to be male scholarships for Nursing, and female scholarships for Engineering - but doesn't necessarily explain why there are women-only advantages for women in law.

[Not that I mind it or anything - just raising a point]

Aren't these sponsored by individuals mostly? In which case they can choose how to use their money, and set the criteria. For example, a rich old lady wanting to help a female whose situation she had been in many years before (hypothetical)

what about academic scholarships (i.e. 99.9+)?

I could make a sweeping generalisation that all those with 99.9+ are financially sound since they can afford to have tutors. Why give them $10k per year?

Well considering that as ebony said, scholarships are traditionally a reward for academic excellence, if you are an excellent student, then unis will want to attract you in the hope that you will benefit them (post grad research etc)
So in this case, the scholarship is a direct result of a students academic superiority and hard work.

 

[Gigacube]

I don't really see a problem with a degree being dominated by a particular gender, why do we even need female engineers?

Why can't we have female engineers?

There are some female only communities and I'm pretty sure that they'd be more comfortable with a female engineer than a male engineer.

 

[izzy88]

Well considering that as ebony said, scholarships are traditionally a reward for academic excellence, if you are an excellent student, then unis will want to attract you in the hope that you will benefit them (post grad research etc)
So in this case, the scholarship is a direct result of a students academic superiority and hard work.

The only problem I have with this though is that the huge mega-scholarships (eg. $10,000 for 99.9) are based purely on ATAR/UAI. And it takes a particular kind of intelligence to get that mark - it doesn't allow for any other kind of assessment. I guess my main problem is realistically with the HSC and calculation of ATAR - but the requirements to do well in the HSC are very different to the requirements to do well in uni. HSC is very much a memorisation game - university requires analysis and self-motivation. There are people who get 99.x and do a lot worse at uni than people with lower UAI's.

I wish there was more of a system of scholarships that benefited not just incoming university students, but also those already at university who had done well in their university subjects. Rather than just one off small prizes, a scholarship would be much more beneficial for continuing students.

 

[tambam]

The only problem I have with this though is that the huge mega-scholarships (eg. $10,000 for 99.9) are based purely on ATAR/UAI. And it takes a particular kind of intelligence to get that mark - it doesn't allow for any other kind of assessment. I guess my main problem is realistically with the HSC and calculation of ATAR - but the requirements to do well in the HSC are very different to the requirements to do well in uni. HSC is very much a memorisation game - university requires analysis and self-motivation. There are people who get 99.x and do a lot worse at uni than people with lower UAI's.

I wish there was more of a system of scholarships that benefited not just incoming university students, but also those already at university who had done well in their university subjects. Rather than just one off small prizes, a scholarship would be much more beneficial for continuing students.

Yeah, i completely agree with this, but at the end of the day, there's really no perfect way to measure academic excellence.

That's why its pretty good that sydney uni at least has faculty scholarships (no idea how many though) which consider your atar along with extracurricular activities, leadership, a proper interview to judge your personality etc.
Whereas unsw, academic excellence is awarded purely based on atar (or at least it seems so from what i've researched)

 

[Chemical Ali]

white people so retarded

"hey, I have a statistically far higher chance of being sick and in prison and not even finishing school and on drugs, and I'll probably die about 20 years earlier than you... but at least I'm eligible for a couple scholarships"

 

[Lolsmith]

And no, of all the scholarship schemes I've looked at recently, there appear to be plenty of scholarships for ANY financial disadvantaged students, and they are hardly restricted to indigenous kids.

The debate about this topic isn't what's available elsewhere, it's about the legitimacy of ethnocentric scholarships provided from public funds. Why is it that "disadvantaged" indigenous students get entirely separate forms of funding compared to students who are disadvantaged in the exact same way? Why does it have to suddenly be about racial privilege?

Statistically, the indigenous population has extremely low percentages which get post high school qualifications, unemployment rates are much higher and their average income is significantly less than non-indigenous conterparts, so yes, there is 'white guilt' which makes universities and the government obliged to attempt to rectify this, and I don't think this is wrong.

Mind you, I don't actually care about this that much because of such a small uptake of these scholarships due to poor participation. But you'll find that the "indigenous" students who actually receive these scholarships would have pursued tertiary education before hearing about them getting free cash monies for it.

when the standards of education/living/health of indigenous communities are equal with the rest of australia, then I think that's the time to be complaining about the 'unfairness' of the scholarship system.

You know they choose to live there right

as in

They willingly choose to live in shitholes and rape children and get drunk and abuse each other right

"it dat dere white fullas fult"

Women still get a lot of sexist remarks in heavily male-dominated subjects which is why some women avoid studying these at uni. The scholarship encourages more women which is good. You wouldn't want a sausage fest.

I'm sure they have male only scholarships for nursing or another heavily-female dominated area.

lol yep choosing your future based on not being treated like a princess

There are heaps of different requirements for scholarships and bursaries - and it's because the money for the scholarships are donated by individuals or corporations to the university to fund a particular scholarship.

Generally that person who donates funds will want the scholarship to be awarded to someone from a particular background, or is interested in a particular thing - (eg. usyd bursaries http://sydney.edu.au/stuserv/financial_assistance_office/scholarships.shtml - these bursaries include one that is for the descendant of a WW1 serviceman, one for a son of a minister etc)

The university will generally have to go along with those requirements if they want that donation - one scholarship that is limited in scope is better than no scholarship at all.

*This* I have no issue with. I have absolutely 0 issues with private companies and individuals giving students money to study. However, I do have issues with the fact that the same people would probably receive criticism if they offered a scholarship specific to a white male. This is mere hearsay however

I don't really see a problem with a degree being dominated by a particular gender, why do we even need female engineers?

quotas for

everything

what about academic scholarships (i.e. 99.9+)?

I could make a sweeping generalisation that all those with 99.9+ are financially sound since they can afford to have tutors. Why give them $10k per year?

you'd be superbly dumb for assuming that they have tutors for starters

Why can't we have female engineers?

There are some female only communities and I'm pretty sure that they'd be more comfortable with a female engineer than a male engineer.

That's the price they pay for making their own decisions

kaz said we don't *need* female engineers, not that he doesn't want them. The same principle extends to male nurses and sex workers

 

[Rafy]

You don't fight racism with more racism.