Optophobia
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Kata is pathetic and is pointless. Anything besides learning them outright (rather than by learning some useless pattern which will never come in handy) is stupid.
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Anyone do martial arts? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter apheoxaio
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Mutationis
Jun Ting Chau
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why bother replying when you're gonna say the same thing over and over again with nothing to back it up? there's no point in discussion if you're not willing to listen to someone else's perspective or what they have to say. don't kid yourself in thinking you know everything about Karate. i was willing to listen to your point of view and at least expected the same courtesy, even if we don't agree.
Gekigengar
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Optophobia said:
Suprisingly Tai-chi could be very effective in "live situations"
taken into the account that you have been doing it for years mastered it and can speed up the pace a bit..
In my honest opinion any martial art form could be killer/effective in live situations. As i stated before you would have to be doing it for years and things just have to come naturally for you and that is when i think you would have an upper edge in a fight.
So from the above statement i can rule myself out of any fights in the future.
The only martial art form i truley belive to be useless is... brazillian carporara(sp?) well not usless just very... ineffective. Their style is just too gross and their stances leave too many openings.
Bank$
Member
I used to do "Tai Ku Do Karate" but now I practice "ill shim tae kwon do"
That's true, as a last resort, if you know a basic form of fighting style, or even just know how to throw a punch properly, that would give you an upper hand in most situations.Gekigengar said:Suprisingly Tai-chi could be very effective in "live situations"
taken into the account that you have been doing it for years mastered it and can speed up the pace a bit..
In my honest opinion any martial art form could be killer/effective in live situations. As i stated before you would have to be doing it for years and things just have to come naturally for you and that is when i think you would have an upper edge in a fight.
So from the above statement i can rule myself out of any fights in the future.
The only martial art form i truley belive to be useless is... brazillian carporara(sp?) well not usless just very... ineffective. Their style is just too gross and their stances leave too many openings.
And i reckon the effectiveness of a certain stype depends more on the practicioner rather than the style itself.
You shouldn't discredit Karate altogether. Kyokushin Karate can be very practical. As for me, I'm currently training at the Usyd Judo Club, but i've also done some Aikido, Capoeira and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the past.Anti-Mathmite said:
Punk_In_Drublic
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It is not Karate which should be discredited but the way it is taught and practiced, which brings its effectiveness in question.
I've been doing mma for 3 years (Wrestling, Muay Thai and Boxing) and have sparred against karate centres when they came to learn from us.
The last time I sparred with two blokes one after the other, of which one was 20kg heavier than I. The other was apparently a black belt. Unfortunately, both were out of shape and after slapping them to the mat with take downs, they were out of breath from about 2mins of sparring. It was a pretty poor performance, and this was repeated throughout the night.
I think most dojos (TKD, Kung Fu, Karate or what have you) suffer from a lack of cardio training, strength training, and full to semi contact sparring.
I've been doing mma for 3 years (Wrestling, Muay Thai and Boxing) and have sparred against karate centres when they came to learn from us.
The last time I sparred with two blokes one after the other, of which one was 20kg heavier than I. The other was apparently a black belt. Unfortunately, both were out of shape and after slapping them to the mat with take downs, they were out of breath from about 2mins of sparring. It was a pretty poor performance, and this was repeated throughout the night.
I think most dojos (TKD, Kung Fu, Karate or what have you) suffer from a lack of cardio training, strength training, and full to semi contact sparring.
Yeah I agree that alot of the traditional martial arts out there do lack an adequate level of conditioning or aliveness. That's one of the reasons why Kyokushin Karate is great, full contact sparring for the win! (Although the no punches to the head rule seems a bit iffy, but I guess thats what you get for not wearing any gloves.)
Where abouts are you training for your MMA?
Where abouts are you training for your MMA?
Punk_In_Drublic
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I did a stint at Sinosec/Perosh centre, but mainly Boxing works. I've since joined the army and don't have the 3-5 days a week required to train mma, but army boxing keeps me sharp nonetheless.
seunghur99
Master Procrastinator
@ Goldendawn: In terms of find a good TKD school, you'll be extremely hard pressed. Too many of them are plain ol' McDojos. Often times even ones in Australia affiliated with the World TKD Federation are questionable. They can be rather too competition-orientated, too focused on sloppy patterns (which are often not the official ones....) for gradings (talk about counter-productive....), lack expertise and experience in technique, or generally just bad or money-focused.
@ the whole black belt thing: Personally, I find the frenzy to receive your first black belt is highly overrated, particularly here in Australia. If you're ready to receive one (in most cases, this could mean very talented, and completely mastered the basics), you should be eligible to receive it when you are. Not after a bogus designated time frame of training. The first black belt should be regarded as the real first step in one's training as a martial artist, but shouldn't be the main focus of one's psyche when doing a martial art. As comparison, a normal 1st dan black belt in TKD in Korea can often be received at the Kukkiwon after a year's worth of training. Colored belts are often only given to children.
@ Kumite and Kata: If by "kumite" you mean sparring, then I don't understand how you can possibly say it doesn't directly help your understanding of a real-life fight. Though it may not be necessarily a real life fight, its as close as you'll get and get a feel for the application of the skills that you have so far acquired. I can't imagine anyone being able to applicate much of the self-defence techniques within kumite, unless its a MMA-orientated spar. And even MMA, which is probably the best as you can get in terms of practical fighting, won't save you from every real-life situation at hand.
What other form of exercise could you possibly deduce would be better for you to understand the application of your skills, and the timing, etc., required for a real fight than kumite/sparring? And if there are a few skills that you can't use for kumite, but would be useful for a real life situation fight, then practice it outside of sparring. At least if you've had some sparring practice, you'll understand the pace a fight can go at, and better applicate those techniques which you've learnt outside of kumite.
In terms of kata, although it should not be the focus of one's training, it does have its uses if done with utmost accuracy to each skill, footwork, and balance. Being able to execute an array of skills in different sequences (where they have been based on the premise that you are fighting imaginary opponent(s)) can better help one understand one's required footwork, balance, control, fluidity in comboing, accuracy in technique, and application possibilities for each skill. Some martial arts do not require this at all, because they rather have a concise set of techniques, or already have other avenues in which to learn how to combo the techniques one learns. The idea of the kata has been used for so very long, and for good reason, and although shouldn't be the focus, shouldn't be neglected either.
@ Taichi: Anyone that takes a simple glance at something like Yang-style taichi and scoffs at taichi's (as a whole) application in a real-life fight is purely ignorant, and should really research the other styles of taichi that are also in application, and how other martial arts (eg. Bagua) had taken influence from taichi. Although it is true that it is often said in China that "One man learning Xingyi can defeat an adversary in a year. Whilst a man learning taichi can take 10 times as longer to do the same." it's true and false. One has to completely understand the philosophy behind it first to become a true practitioner, but in the end the result is the same (well, in terms of application of the skills for the specific purpose of defence).
But really, I think there's too much emphasis these days on martial arts to be an invincible tool for one to fight people. Although it was created for that original intent, it does have its value as something like a sport - for physical improvement in a huge amount of ways, mental stimulation, aesthetic value, cultural value, enjoyment. Often times, martial arts teach you different ways of life, which often times are instrumental to the art, or your particular fighting style. And, in the end, any man, no matter what their training is like, can be easily be killed by the barrel of a gun, or a well-feinted knife wound, or an ambush, and how often do these things occur? Unless you are directly involved with having to deal with violence, we won't exactly come across these situations every day. In fact, much of the time, it should be considered a bonus to one's own ability to defend themselves when that sort of thing does arise. Even then, when that time does come, it all depends on that person, and how well they take advantage of everything available, not just what they learnt in class on Thursday.
@ Capoeira: Well, it was meant to be a disguised martial art, for the slaves of South America to become able to learn a way to fight whilst not being detected, thus it was disguised as a dance. To this day, you see it practised as a dance, and, although one could try to put it into combatitive usage, its a martial art more for other purposes now. Loads of people take inspiration from Capoeira for tricking, and self-improvement in general coordination and mobility.
@ Karate: Kyokushin rocks. Not only has the master of the art proven its effectiveness among karate-ka after defeating the major dojos in Japan, and started by a fellow countrymen, but its the very basis of today's K-1/Pride environment. Though, I do find the lack of punches to the head sucky. As much as for protective reasons I can understand, flinching every time you get punched in the face because you're not used to the impact, and not learning to tuck in your chin when up against that kind of assault, can be extremely horrendous.
And as a side note, with all the mixed martial artists that are around these days, I find it retarded that one says "this striking martial art is horrible against this grappling martial art". Well, besides the fact the chance of you encountering someone else doing that particular art could be very small, and that each style of martial art often has many different forms under it, just go and learn some grappling and counter that grappling shit that could cause you trouble, and continue with your dominant style. Why does one have to sacrafice their preferred art just because people simply say this art beats out another? Its up to the martial artist, and only the martial artist, to how one will win the fight. To think in such rigid terms in the MMA competitive sense, is truly backward.
@ the whole black belt thing: Personally, I find the frenzy to receive your first black belt is highly overrated, particularly here in Australia. If you're ready to receive one (in most cases, this could mean very talented, and completely mastered the basics), you should be eligible to receive it when you are. Not after a bogus designated time frame of training. The first black belt should be regarded as the real first step in one's training as a martial artist, but shouldn't be the main focus of one's psyche when doing a martial art. As comparison, a normal 1st dan black belt in TKD in Korea can often be received at the Kukkiwon after a year's worth of training. Colored belts are often only given to children.
@ Kumite and Kata: If by "kumite" you mean sparring, then I don't understand how you can possibly say it doesn't directly help your understanding of a real-life fight. Though it may not be necessarily a real life fight, its as close as you'll get and get a feel for the application of the skills that you have so far acquired. I can't imagine anyone being able to applicate much of the self-defence techniques within kumite, unless its a MMA-orientated spar. And even MMA, which is probably the best as you can get in terms of practical fighting, won't save you from every real-life situation at hand.
What other form of exercise could you possibly deduce would be better for you to understand the application of your skills, and the timing, etc., required for a real fight than kumite/sparring? And if there are a few skills that you can't use for kumite, but would be useful for a real life situation fight, then practice it outside of sparring. At least if you've had some sparring practice, you'll understand the pace a fight can go at, and better applicate those techniques which you've learnt outside of kumite.
In terms of kata, although it should not be the focus of one's training, it does have its uses if done with utmost accuracy to each skill, footwork, and balance. Being able to execute an array of skills in different sequences (where they have been based on the premise that you are fighting imaginary opponent(s)) can better help one understand one's required footwork, balance, control, fluidity in comboing, accuracy in technique, and application possibilities for each skill. Some martial arts do not require this at all, because they rather have a concise set of techniques, or already have other avenues in which to learn how to combo the techniques one learns. The idea of the kata has been used for so very long, and for good reason, and although shouldn't be the focus, shouldn't be neglected either.
@ Taichi: Anyone that takes a simple glance at something like Yang-style taichi and scoffs at taichi's (as a whole) application in a real-life fight is purely ignorant, and should really research the other styles of taichi that are also in application, and how other martial arts (eg. Bagua) had taken influence from taichi. Although it is true that it is often said in China that "One man learning Xingyi can defeat an adversary in a year. Whilst a man learning taichi can take 10 times as longer to do the same." it's true and false. One has to completely understand the philosophy behind it first to become a true practitioner, but in the end the result is the same (well, in terms of application of the skills for the specific purpose of defence).
But really, I think there's too much emphasis these days on martial arts to be an invincible tool for one to fight people. Although it was created for that original intent, it does have its value as something like a sport - for physical improvement in a huge amount of ways, mental stimulation, aesthetic value, cultural value, enjoyment. Often times, martial arts teach you different ways of life, which often times are instrumental to the art, or your particular fighting style. And, in the end, any man, no matter what their training is like, can be easily be killed by the barrel of a gun, or a well-feinted knife wound, or an ambush, and how often do these things occur? Unless you are directly involved with having to deal with violence, we won't exactly come across these situations every day. In fact, much of the time, it should be considered a bonus to one's own ability to defend themselves when that sort of thing does arise. Even then, when that time does come, it all depends on that person, and how well they take advantage of everything available, not just what they learnt in class on Thursday.
@ Capoeira: Well, it was meant to be a disguised martial art, for the slaves of South America to become able to learn a way to fight whilst not being detected, thus it was disguised as a dance. To this day, you see it practised as a dance, and, although one could try to put it into combatitive usage, its a martial art more for other purposes now. Loads of people take inspiration from Capoeira for tricking, and self-improvement in general coordination and mobility.
@ Karate: Kyokushin rocks. Not only has the master of the art proven its effectiveness among karate-ka after defeating the major dojos in Japan, and started by a fellow countrymen
, but its the very basis of today's K-1/Pride environment. Though, I do find the lack of punches to the head sucky. As much as for protective reasons I can understand, flinching every time you get punched in the face because you're not used to the impact, and not learning to tuck in your chin when up against that kind of assault, can be extremely horrendous.And as a side note, with all the mixed martial artists that are around these days, I find it retarded that one says "this striking martial art is horrible against this grappling martial art". Well, besides the fact the chance of you encountering someone else doing that particular art could be very small, and that each style of martial art often has many different forms under it, just go and learn some grappling and counter that grappling shit that could cause you trouble, and continue with your dominant style. Why does one have to sacrafice their preferred art just because people simply say this art beats out another? Its up to the martial artist, and only the martial artist, to how one will win the fight. To think in such rigid terms in the MMA competitive sense, is truly backward.
Last edited:
bcfighter
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currently only studying...but was doin wing chun bout 6 yrs ago but stopped coz i believe its too restrictive nd not effective in combat sports..now im training to compete professionally in MMA as a fulltime career..wanna try get into dentistry as protection tho..but yea i do sambo, bjj, wrestling, kickboxing (muay thai) nd yea pretty much a mix of everything
gonna go sinosic perosh as soon as i finish da hsc..wish me luck
gonna go sinosic perosh as soon as i finish da hsc..wish me luck
seunghur99
Master Procrastinator
Wow, a female MMA as a full time career? :O That's really something! But, as a forewarning, have you talked to anyone that has actually directly competed in MMA events? Most can probably tell you, even as a male, where the competition is more regularly kept up to date, to have it as a full time career can be extremely difficult. There just isn't enough interest in MMA as a sport in Australia, nor America. Unless you're going to be the next Matt Kerr, you'll be very hard pressed for cash.
If you're really serious about it, you should definitely try to pick up as much as possible from BJJ, and muay thai, just to at least pick up counter points, and develop your standup and grappling game, anything else should come second priority until you really understand the BJJ and muay thai game really well (the competition base coming from this area is astronomical....), and you really must develop a strong standup. Its much harder to develop a strong standup, than it is to develop a strong grappling, groundwork game. Don't try to mix into too many things, you'll just lack an overall understanding, and mess up your game by trying to incorporate all this mixed up stuff. Just keep this stuff in mind until you start really training after HSC, and get a coach. Good luck with it all.
If you're really serious about it, you should definitely try to pick up as much as possible from BJJ, and muay thai, just to at least pick up counter points, and develop your standup and grappling game, anything else should come second priority until you really understand the BJJ and muay thai game really well (the competition base coming from this area is astronomical....), and you really must develop a strong standup. Its much harder to develop a strong standup, than it is to develop a strong grappling, groundwork game. Don't try to mix into too many things, you'll just lack an overall understanding, and mess up your game by trying to incorporate all this mixed up stuff. Just keep this stuff in mind until you start really training after HSC, and get a coach. Good luck with it all.
bcfighter
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hahahaha nahh sorry bout da female thing im a 100 percent complete male loll...wen i was makin my account i jus hurried thru it so yea prob accidently clicked female..yea i kno kinda stupid but heyy loll...but yea i kno wat u mean..i dun get in2 too much stuff..i concentrate mostly on bjj nd muay thai..i try get som of da best concepts nd techniques from oder martial arts aswell...
like as you wud prob kno..bjj doesnt have as good takedowns or takedown defense as lets say greco-roman or freestyle wrestling..nd so yeaa dere many variations of techniques dat u can get from oder martial arts dat help
4example catch wrestling has a few good variations to techniques in bjj like guilotine choke etc nd sambo has many good leg locks...newaizz yea thnks 4 da advice..i kno wat u mean..4 da most part i try concentrate mainly on wrestling, muay thai nd bjj
PRIDE ND UFC HERE I COME lol
nd yea ur right it aint dat big down under..but dere a few guys dat hav contacts wid some of da big organisations in usa nd japan..so im hopin 2 hook up wid dem
like as you wud prob kno..bjj doesnt have as good takedowns or takedown defense as lets say greco-roman or freestyle wrestling..nd so yeaa dere many variations of techniques dat u can get from oder martial arts dat help
4example catch wrestling has a few good variations to techniques in bjj like guilotine choke etc nd sambo has many good leg locks...newaizz yea thnks 4 da advice..i kno wat u mean..4 da most part i try concentrate mainly on wrestling, muay thai nd bjj
PRIDE ND UFC HERE I COME lol
nd yea ur right it aint dat big down under..but dere a few guys dat hav contacts wid some of da big organisations in usa nd japan..so im hopin 2 hook up wid dem
bcfighter
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ohh and yea 4 got 2 say..i get wat u mean wid da standup..i mean da fight starts standin up so its a must to first of all i believe develop a strong standup game and takedown defense..which has proved 2 be very effective 4 da likes of chuck liddell nd crocop... nd den i want to expand my knowledge onda complex ground game..which has proved effective 4 minotoro nd royce gracie (inda first ufc events)
ohh nd i dun think money is much of an issue atm...mma is i believe da fastest growing sport inda world and nowadays it is constantly beating da amount of PPVs compared wid NBA or NFL etc in america..
ps: i cant believe ZUFFA(owners of ufc) bought PRIDE...i hope dey keep everythin da same nd dont ruin it
ohh nd i dun think money is much of an issue atm...mma is i believe da fastest growing sport inda world and nowadays it is constantly beating da amount of PPVs compared wid NBA or NFL etc in america..
ps: i cant believe ZUFFA(owners of ufc) bought PRIDE...i hope dey keep everythin da same nd dont ruin it
360flip
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