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Another reason why god doesn't exist (2 Viewers)

Tulipa

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jimmayyy said:
rofl way to zoom in on actions that happened hundreds of years ago, still thinking they are topical today. i admitted myself that they have a horrific past, but they aren't still doing it today. without the church there never would have been the expansion into other parts of this earth as there was. Christianity made Europe what it is today.
Actually, you're the one who mentioned civilizing the Western world, thus going back in history hundreds of years where those events ARE relevant. So what the fuck are you on about?
 
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katie_tully

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amount proven? churches will pay off anyone these days, just like any other big corporation, whether they are the guilty party or not simply to keep this sort of court. its not an admission of guilt. and besides, 7% is still a fucking isolated amount if u spread it over the 93%.
A Church should not operate as a corporation. What ever happened to piety? "The gift of piety corresponds to the virtue of justice." Paying people off for their silence isn't the virtue of Justice. Heaven forbid the Church start acting like a Church and not an insitution of corruption and bigotry. Anyway, you obviously have not read the article from the link I posted. Until then, stfu.

rofl way to zoom in on actions that happened hundreds of years ago, still thinking they are topical today. i admitted myself that they have a horrific past, but they aren't still doing it today. without the church there never would have been the expansion into other parts of this earth as there was. Christianity made Europe what it is today.
Examples please.
if u just wanted an answer to that, why bag on the church for the entirety of ur original thread, then pose a question in the last line? clearly, u wanted a reaction from people willing to oppose views are ignorant as the one you originally espoused in that first post.
Like the moronic fool you are, you obviously haven't read the entire thread and have only picked out comments I made regarding my feelings on the Church. They're my feelings, it is my opinion and I am completely entitled to it. You don't like it? I couldnt give a fuck you little dweeb, but let me give you some pointers. Read the thread before you go off like a raging bull. If you had, you would have noticed we had been discussing the topic of why priests become paedophiles since page one. If you had an ounce of intelligence you would have realised or read from numerous postings that the title of this thread was in reference (or a pun) to another thread entitled 'Does God Exist'. Where did I bag out the church for the entire thread? Infact I can probably count on one hand how many comments I made.
ANSWER: the same reason all the other people become one - they are fucked in the head. lets look at your stastistics. okay, say that whole 7% of accused preists are guilty. in fact, lets double it for all those poor little boys too scared to come forward and tell mummy and daddy father joe touched his naughty place, lets say that 14% of catholic priests are pedos. now, what percentage of total pedos will they constitute? i'm guessing somewhere below 10%. you are attempting to draw a conclusion between church policy and the crimes of a few (whatever number you put on it, anything under 20 percent is still not very many) that doesnt exist. if there was the link you claim (that being celebate encourages pedophelia) then all priests would be touching little boys. as far as you have proved, they are not.
lolz, why does a dog lick its balls? because it can. GOOD ARGUMENT, FUCKSTICK. And what IS the same reason all other people become a paedophile?
you are attempting to draw a conclusion between church policy and the crimes of a few
No, what we were doing and quite successfully, until you showed up, was debate whether forced celibacy is healthy and whether it is a contributing factor towards paedophilia within the Catholic clergy.
The link doesn't exist? Facts plz. You cant just make that statement. Why doesn't it exist. Because you said so?
 

robbie1

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my oh my...where do i start?

Firstly, I can't believe the ignorance of most of the posts I have read in these 7 pages....

Secondly, I would like to turn your attention to Professor Philip Jenkins (a non-Catholic)

Prof. Philip Jenkins, a non-Catholic and Professor of History and Religious Studies at Penn State University, published the book Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis in 1996. In it, he calculated that approximately 0.2 percent of Catholic priests are child molesters. His 2002 article "The myth of the 'pedophile priest'" expresses his views. Professor Jenkins states:

"My research of cases over the past 20 years indicates no evidence whatever that Catholic or other celibate clergy are any more likely to be involved in misconduct or abuse than clergy of any other denomination -- or indeed, than nonclergy.

However determined news media may be to see this affair as a crisis of celibacy, the charge is just unsupported."

Furthermore, there remains the simple fact that a Catholic priest suffering sexual temptations is not likely to turn immediately to a teenage boy simply because Church discipline does not permit clergy to marry. Supporters of clerical celibacy suggest, then, that there is some other factor at work.

...........................................................................................................................................................................

Some —including non-Catholic academics such as Philip Jenkins—have observed that the Catholic Church is being unfairly singled out by a secular media which they say fails to highlight similar sexual scandals in other religious groups, such as the Anglican Communion, various Protestant churches, and the Jewish and Islamic communities.

In particular the Catholic Church may have a lower incidence of molesting priests than Churches that allow married clergy. Statistically child molestation occurs within families but Catholic priests do not have families. Similarly, the term "pedophile priests," widely used in the media, implies a distinctly higher rate of child molesters within the Roman Catholic priesthood when in reality the incidence is lower than most other segments of society".

................................................................................................................................................................................

The Catholic Church clearly teaches the sexual abuse of children to be gravely sinful. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church's list of moral offences, one finds:

"...any sexual abuse perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents entrusted to their care. The offense is compounded by the scandalous harm done to the physical and moral integrity of the young, who will remain scarred by it, all their lives; and the violation of responsibility for their upbringing." (CCC 2389).

..................................................................................................................................................................................

btw celibacy comes from Jesus himself:

Paul was not the first apostle to conclude that celibacy is, in some sense, "better" than marriage. After Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage, the disciples exclaimed, "If such is the case between a man and his wife, it is better not to marry" (Matt 19:10). This remark prompted Jesus’ teaching on the value of celibacy "for the sake of the kingdom":

"Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it" (Matt. 19:11–12).

Finally this refutes the arguments against priestly celibacy:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0014.html
 

sthcross.dude

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robbie1 said:
In it, he calculated that approximately 0.2 percent of Catholic priests are child molesters.
I dont doubt the accuracy of this figure. However it is almost certainly the figure for actual convictions. An overwhealming number of sexual assaults never lead to conviction. This would be no exception in this case, especially due to the often long delay between the incident and the reporting of these cases which makes prosecution even harder.

The real figures would be much greater. Also 0.2 still seems disturbingly high for a conviction rate. I would expect that is higher than the rate for the general population.
 
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katie_tully

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Well the study I found was a survey done by a Catholic organisation and it reveals the rate to be much higher than 0.2%.
 

robbie1

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katie_tully said:
Well the study I found was a survey done by a Catholic organisation and it reveals the rate to be much higher than 0.2%.
is that your only reply to my post?

also its a shame that you have such a hatred for the Catholic Church because i would love to have a civilised discussion with you on this matter and any Catholic matter....but its a little difficult with somebody like you.

im happy to discuss anything with non-catholic Christians, or with anybody of a different faith, or an atheist/agnostic....like why does the Chruch teach this? why do we believe that? etc etc.....but all i ask for is a little bit of respect for my faith....i thought the posts of jimayyy in this thread have been fair - and he's an atheist.....i dont think you've been very fair in your posts, katie.
 
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katie_tully

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is that your only reply to my post?

also its a shame that you have such a hatred for the Catholic Church because i would love to have a civilised discussion with you on this matter and any Catholic matter....but its a little difficult with somebody like you.

im happy to discuss anything with non-catholic Christians, or with anybody of a different faith, or an atheist/agnostic....like why does the Chruch teach this? why do we believe that? etc etc.....but all i ask for is a little bit of respect for my faith....i thought the posts of jimayyy in this thread have been fair - and he's an atheist.....i dont think you've been very fair in your posts, katie.
I don't give a flying fuck what you think, really. In my experience it's completely impossible to have conversations with people like you because you refuse to see reason.

Don't preach this holier than thou crap to my either. I was raised a Catholic. I know why people are Catholic and it is precisely why I am not a Catholic anymore.
 
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katie_tully

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Side note. Having a hatred for the Church does not render me incapable of having a discussion on this topic. Jumping to conclusions, much?
 

robbie1

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where have i preached this "holier than thou crap" ?

see what i mean...i tell you i'd actually like to have a civilised discussion with you and you go and attack me straight away....

and I am Catholic because it makes sense to me and when I read the Bible and read the Catechism - it hits me - Im reading the truth.

good day to you.
 
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katie_tully

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where have i preached this "holier than thou crap" ?
also its a shame that you have such a hatred for the Catholic Church because i would love to have a civilised discussion with you on this matter and any Catholic matter....but its a little difficult with somebody like you.
A little difficult with somebody like me. Which means what exactly? That you are better than me at having civilised conversations? You didn't even try and initiate one, you automatically assumed I am incapable of having a rationalised debate.

Adios.
 

robbie1

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"somebody like you" - meaning somebody who has a pure hatred for my Church and my beliefs, my priests, my Pope....not somebody beneath me.....infact nobody is beneath me - all are equally loved by God.
 
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katie_tully

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"somebody like you" - meaning somebody who has a pure hatred for my Church and my beliefs, my priests, my Pope....not somebody beneath me.....infact nobody is beneath me - all are equally loved by God.
That doesn't render me incapable of having a discussion.
 

forsaken999

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jimmayyy said:
ANSWER: the same reason all the other people become one - they are fucked in the head. lets look at your stastistics. okay, say that whole 7% of accused preists are guilty. in fact, lets double it for all those poor little boys too scared to come forward and tell mummy and daddy father joe touched his naughty place, lets say that 14% of catholic priests are pedos. now, what percentage of total pedos will they constitute? i'm guessing somewhere below 10%. you are attempting to draw a conclusion between church policy and the crimes of a few (whatever number you put on it, anything under 20 percent is still not very many) that doesnt exist. if there was the link you claim (that being celebate encourages pedophelia) then all priests would be touching little boys. as far as you have proved, they are not.

dude wtf?!
you're telling me that its safe to assume that between 7-14% of catholic priests being paedophiles is not very many. you are seriously fucked in the head. If we applied that same ratio to the rest of the populous of Australia, there'd be somewhere between 1.4 and 2.8 million dirty sticking pedos walking around this country. Seriously, to even attempt to say that this is not widespread or play down its effect on others is fucking bullshit, and this is the same religious organisation you're saying is helping millions of people around the world. . .sounds more like a cheap hooker, they take your money, fuck you over and then get their juiced up boyfriends to shake u down for money the next time you walk past
 
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katie_tully

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Thankyou Forsaken.
I was astounded he thought 7% is a low number. The statistics are only American statistics, it works out to be about 4000. That's 4000 too many paedophile clergy. What makes it worse is they're generally in close proximity to children and in a position of influence.
 

jimmayyy

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katie_tully said:
That doesn't render me incapable of having a discussion.
no, what renders you incapable of having a civillised discussion are your constant replies of "LOLZ U FUCKSTICK, I COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT YOU THINK YOU FUCKING DWEEB LOL READ THE THREAD, U R WRONG I AM RIGHT LOLZ FUCKSTICK"
 
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katie_tully

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No.
This thread was never intended to become another debate about the existance of God. You fools did that.

What renders me incapable of having a discussion with people like you is your sheer lack of grey matter.
 

robbie1

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katie_tully said:
No.
This thread was never intended to become another debate about the existance of God. You fools did that
you knew very well that it could possibly turn into one because of your provocative title....

a title i might add which is very misleading.
 
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katie_tully

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you knew very well that it could possibly turn into one because of your provocative title....

a title i might add which is very misleading.
Misleading? only you and that other guy didn't get the title. Only you and some other clown went on a self righteous rant instead of reading the posts to see what the thread WAS MEANT TO BE ABOUT.
 

robbie1

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katie_tully said:
Misleading? only you and that other guy didn't get the title. Only you and some other clown went on a self righteous rant instead of reading the posts to see what the thread WAS MEANT TO BE ABOUT.
actually, i read every single post.

i know what it was meant to be about, my original post fits in nicely, no?

i just mentioned how hard it would be to talk with you - and suprise suprise, i was right....didnt take you long to launch into personal attacks, did it?
 

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