ALP Education Policy [regarding funding to independant and non-independant schools] (1 Viewer)

[leetom]

I want to lead a government that will free up the Australian people to have a go, by giving them all a fair-go.

In the context of education, that's exactly what Latham is going to do. He's going to give the rest of us, not just students with wealthy parents, an equal and fair education. Latham is going to give us a fair-go, the fair-go we deserve just as much as you do. While Howards remains in power we'll never get a fair-go, purely because our families are not wealthy.

Please quote if you're going to use that document to support what you're saying, I don't want to read it.

 

[jameseginton]

To ask an economist a question, you will always get two answers.
You might also wish to note the bebacle formerly known as Liverpool council which is now in recievership. Talk about a track record!

 

[Ziff]

To ask an economist a question, you will always get two answers.
You might also wish to note the bebacle formerly known as Liverpool council which is now in recievership. Talk about a track record!

Local Councils are reasonably small operations compared to State or Federal governments (or even medium-large sized businesses). Blaming someone who hasn't been there for 10 years or more on what's happening now is absurd. That's like blaming the past owner of a small business who left the company 5-10 years ago on the current problems of the company. It just doesn't work.

 

[leetom]

It is important that we remeber the contribution that private schools make to the education department. By creating the ability for those on middle incomes to send there children to private schools, it means they are paying for there childs education rather than the Government, who would spend the funds not improving facilities but trying to find new facilities. There would be no improvement in public eduction just a broadening of the amount of people in public education. To believe that problems would be solved if funding was cut, think about private schools closing for a week forcing children to attend public schools. There would not be enough places, classes would be overcrowded and the small net gain by public schools would not be able to be used to improve or even maintain these schools but would be drained to expand schools to accomodate the burden. Private schools take up the burden as they raise funds from those people sent there. By recieveng the funding from the Governement they are able to encourage more to attend private schooling.

Let the private schools be closed down for a week, let them be closed down forever. If all the private students were to shift to the public system it would result in the government having too provide an equal education for everyone. It wouldn't mean the public system would become shitter, it would force its improvement and create an equal education for every student. The only people who would be upset would be the former private students as they would lose the better education they had at their private school, but unless everybody can have an exelletnt standard of education, everybody should have a shit one until it improves.

 

[jameseginton]

Maybe you could tell me where the funding would come from then? Oh i have an idea, maybe it will come from increasing public school fees

 

[leetom]

The wasn't the point. I'm not calling for the closure of every private school, I was just hghlighting the current system's inaduquacy by providing an exellent standard of education only to the children of wealthy parents.

 

[jameseginton]

So do you believe in private schools or not. You want them closed now you dont, its like listening to John Kerry

 

[paper cup]

"I believe in governments helping people. I believe in opportunity. But I also know that the people should be enabled to help themselves - to work hard, to exercise responsibility. There is no way out of poverty and disadvantage without having a go, without effort.
I want to lead a government that will free up the Australian people to have a go, by giving them all a fair-go.
This is what I mean by the ladder of opportunity - all Australians climbing upwards. Making a better life for themselves and their families, knowing that at the same time, they are making Australia stronger and fairer."

This is the quote from the ALP's own web page marketing their "Taking pressure off families" campaign. I especially draw your eye to the underlined part of this passage and point out the blatent lie that sits there.


Can I just add that on the topic of needy public schools. Funding of Government schools under the Liberal Government has increased by 60% or 935 million dollars.(without taking money away from independent schools.)

And here's a bit of interesting information. Labor did NOT submit its policies for costing. That's the most irrisponsible thing a party can do. It shows, in black and white, that their policies can't be funded or implemented, (in other words, they are useless beyond belief) because they don't work money wise.

If you can't deliver on policies, more to the point, if you can't even submit your policies for costing before going to election then you may as well be blowing hot air about.

It shows the same picture of disorganisation and deceit as Latham's last screw up.

I'll admit that I'm prejudiced against the liberal party, couldn't forgive them after Fraser and his whining to Kerr...yes ellymelly, liberals have performed better economically and militarily in the past, but Labor far surpass the liberals on education and welfare, I think I said that before somewhere.

will everyone stop bringing up liverpool? I'm sure Mr Howard made a lot of mistakes in the past as well, oh I don't know, such as telling the Aus public 27 lies, dragging us into a conflict very peripheral to our interests, appointing an incompetent foreign minister (anyone see the Canberra Times a few weeks ago?)...

so what is Howard doing for women? what is Howard doing for familes? ATSI? ...public schools would still be better off under latham. and you still haven't answered my question ellymelly. what does abbotsleigh need all this funding for? it gets millions in fees every year.

 

[mervvyn]

So do you believe in private schools or not. You want them closed now you dont, its like listening to John Kerry

I think you missed something in his post.
It's called sarcasm.
He was using an extreme hypothetical, like you, to make a point. I don't think many people are narrow minded enough to suggest that private schooling should be abolished - obviously it's not feasible, we don't really need to be reminded.
The other thing is that the number of students adversely affected by the labor proposal is something like less than 5%, so presumably the rest will benefit or stay the same, will they not?

As for the costing, I don't know if that's concrete proof that a policy is an abject failure and that the party should be condemned to the depths of hell - Labor has had independent costings as well.

The things about elite private schooling is that is by its very nature, elite and exclusive. The schools capitalise on that - it is the basis of their repuations. As far as I know, most of the hit list private schools have fairly extensive waiting lists of students with parents who would be willing to pay the fees. Losing students is not their worry. If the hit list schools are so needy, why did their fees increase so much over the past 8.5 years, when their federal funding has generally risen significantly? I'm not suggesting they receive nothing, but... this is getting messy. I think I'll leave you to your ideologies now.

 

[Ziff]

I'll admit that I'm prejudiced against the liberal party, couldn't forgive them after Fraser and his whining to Kerr...yes ellymelly, liberals have performed better economically and militarily in the past, but Labor far surpass the liberals on education and welfare, I think I said that before somewhere.

will everyone stop bringing up liverpool? I'm sure Mr Howard made a lot of mistakes in the past as well, oh I don't know, such as telling the Aus public 27 lies, dragging us into a conflict very peripheral to our interests, appointing an incompetent foreign minister (anyone see the Canberra Times a few weeks ago?)...

so what is Howard doing for women? what is Howard doing for familes? ATSI? ...public schools would still be better off under latham. and you still haven't answered my question ellymelly. what does abbotsleigh need all this funding for? it gets millions in fees every year.

Militarily?!

Umm... Time for a lesson re: WWII and Vietnam? (Liberal's stuffed up bad...)
Labor: Gulf War...

35 lies now

Other stuff. Go on MSN damn it so I can yell at you.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Anyone see Sunday today? The story on the Kings School.... man their facilities were so awesome, they don't need extra funding. Comparing where I went to school and that school is like comparing the Taj Mahal to a backpackers...

 

[ohne]

Anyone see Sunday today? The story on the Kings School.... man their facilities were so awesome, they don't need extra funding. Comparing where I went to school and that school is like comparing the Taj Mahal to a backpackers...

But don't you accept that some government assistance allows them to keep their fees lower and allow more access for less wealthy students?

 

[Generator]

I did not know that Labor planned on cutting its funding of the Kings School entirely...

 

[lukebennett]

It's a necessary policy. I believe that it has much more merit than the Coalition's current policy.

Besides, if the mum and dad feel the need to buy an upbringing for their kids, then why should they not be burdened with the greater proportion of the cost?

That's ridiculous!!! the coalition i admit has a lot of work to do. but the ind scools already get less funding anyways. to remove more money for education which they pay their taxes for is not fair. Many people i know at indepenant scools can only just afford to keep their children there and put all their money into their childs education. even so, the higher income bracket are already burdened by the fact that half their income is taxed, let alone not having their tax going on their education. fair enough that tax is the peoples money, but for education i feel that it is fair that peoples earned money goes on their kids education. but then public schools need an overhaul. the gov cant do this by funding private schools less. people will now have to pay more to keep their kids there as the schools will charge more to compensate.

I understand what you mean that SOME private scoolers can afford the extra burden. but many cant

 

[Generator]

We have already discussed those points... Besides, why is it a burden? Why can they not just make use of the public system? Why is it that they see a non-public education as being better than one from the public system?

 

[I-Jester]

Sounds like a lot of talk from people who are relying on the media rather than reading the policy itself.

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

And as a matter of interest: how many ALP members are here?

 

[paper cup]

Militarily?!

Umm... Time for a lesson re: WWII and Vietnam? (Liberal's stuffed up bad...)
Labor: Gulf War...

35 lies now

Other stuff. Go on MSN damn it so I can yell at you.

alright, so maybe not militarily. but economically yes. she was being civil for once, I had to make up stuff as to not appear a total bitch.
btw you never thanked me for making all those nice comments about your arse
35? how did it increase so dramatically?
I-Jester erm, I'm not sure about members most of us are under 18 bar asq and some other uni students, but a lot of labor supporters in here.
what is wrong with a public education? we want people to go to public schools not private schools. if you don't have the money seriously why make your parents pay a lot of money just so you can get the same marks? if you work hard you get a good UAI, if you bludge then obviously you get a crap UAI, it has little to do with the school. I mean people like ellymelly are complaining that if they have to leave their private schools they have to miss out on all these extra curricular activities, it's like, mate...we don't even have enough to teach the syllabus properly let alone hold debutante balls every weekend.

 

[AsyLum]

Gah kings .....

Im in favour of the bill, its time to up the overall level not just a few.

 

[Skillo]

So do you believe in private schools or not. You want them closed now you dont, its like listening to John Kerry

Jesus. You've got a real infatuation with paying Kerry out don't you Scots boy.

 

[lengstar]

like....here is the thread