Afghan women: be sexually obedient to your husbands or starve (2 Viewers)

[Ancly]

suicide bombers have killed a lot more civilians than the military

only a fool would disagreee

 

[ashie0]

near 100 000 civilians have been killed in both Iraq and Afghanistan, i have no idea how those figures are distributed between insurgents and western military but regardless who is responsible, with these figures in mind, how can you begin to argue to argue the occupation has been good for iraq?

'As many as 10,000 non-combatant civilian deaths during 2003 have been reliably reported so far as a result of the US/UK-led invasion and occupation of Iraq . These reports provide figures which range between a minimum of 8,235 and a maximum of 10,079 as of Saturday 7th February 2004.'



iraq body count -just an example.

 

[Ancly]

yes

 

[Arsey-Darcy]

we have absolutely no right at all. we're not superior, we're different. obviously both cultues have flaws. the islam extremists treatment of women being a scathingly obvious example, but the west is no where no perfect. We've seen what happens when the west try to impose its way of life on other cultures (Iraq, Afghanistan?)

I think this law is disgusting, but i highly doubt its representative of the majority of the islam community.

Both cultures have their flaws, yes; but if you can sit here and not accept that this demonstrates a profound barbarism that exists in the culture of these Sharia Law countries, then you deserve to live in one of these countries.

The problem is not Islam itself; it's religious fundamentalism and religious dominance. What's important to remember is that these types of laws were just as prevalent in canon law in western society not too long ago. Then separation of church and state and feminism and rational thought came into it and we evolved. These countries are just less developed in their culture and attitudes with regards to religion than the western world. Which is barbaric, but not for us to try and change; the process of evolution will eventually come about and they'll have more sensible attitudes towards...everything.

What is important NOW is that we help these poor women that are suffering at the hands of this barbarism. The fact this is happening in a country we've already supposed to have "liberated," highlights our shoddy efforts so far.

 

[anom1ly]

we have absolutely no right at all. we're not superior, we're different. obviously both cultues have flaws. the islam extremists treatment of women being a scathingly obvious example, but the west is no where no perfect. We've seen what happens when the west try to impose its way of life on other cultures (Iraq, Afghanistan?)

I think this law is disgusting, but i highly doubt its representative of the majority of the islam community.

what you can't seem to admit to yourself, its that we MUST impose our way of life on other cultures. not because we think we're better, but because we have fucked up. by giving them weapons and technology to kill and oppress each other, we have destroyed their culture. we should never have interferred with the development of the middle-east, but we're not perfect and we make mistakes.

washing your hands of the problem is dispicable. what we've done is taken a giant dump over the middle east, given them everything thats terrible with us, and now your saying we shouldn't clean it up, because they try to kill us every time we do? (iraq, afghanistan). unfortunately, as the creators of the dump, we must clean it up, even if it means we'll get hurt doing it.

the sins of the fathers are passed onto their sons. of course its not pretty, but we've grown up and realised we havto fix what previous generations fucked up.

 

[Planck]

Just nuke the middle east and let their sky-fairy sort them out. Seriously. Nothing of benefit comes from the islamic world and they are holding us back.

 

[ashie0]

Both cultures have their flaws, yes; but if you can sit here and not accept that this demonstrates a profound barbarism that exists in the culture of these Sharia Law countries, then you deserve to live in one of these countries.

The problem is not Islam itself; it's religious fundamentalism and religious dominance. What's important to remember is that these types of laws were just as prevalent in canon law in western society not too long ago. Then separation of church and state and feminism and rational thought came into it and we evolved. These countries are just less developed in their culture and attitudes with regards to religion than the western world. Which is barbaric, but not for us to try and change; the process of evolution will eventually come about and they'll have more sensible attitudes towards...everything.

What is important NOW is that we help these poor women that are suffering at the hands of this barbarism. The fact this is happening in a country we've already supposed to have "liberated," highlights our shoddy efforts so far.

i agree?

 

[ImVrySmrt]

Afghanistan passes 'barbaric' law diminishing women's rights | World news | guardian.co.uk


Disgusting.

1. I am against oppression of anyone

2. We shouldn't tolerate (as it hinds superiority, you tolerate a mosquitoes) you accept people

3. Well i don't really blame you this is classic western ignorance, and media influence. This is clearly taken out of context. In Islam, yes a fee can let you off, but only when the father and victim agrees to it, set by them, so your at their mercy, otherwise after a trial (yes a trial far before the ecclesiastical/kings/chancery courts of the west) where there is clear evidence the person is stoned to death (all abrahemic religions have similar penalties)

4. The victim can force the rapist to marry her, as long as she lives he can't leave her, she can divorce him though (and islam gives provisions for her to live independantly, far before the west).

5. God wants children so therefore when either the man or women wants children the partner has to oblige or are sinning. But the partner cannot force one another to have sex. These retards think that by blackmailing them to have sex that consent is still valid (do i need to further explain this flaw in logic, i don't think so), secondly by starving them they are failing in their duty to provide for their wife.

6. Western society superior? no, both are flawed due to man. simple. There are ways in which Islam is actually better than western culture, how? well interest free loans (cbf to explain) but it means no late fees, there are guarantees for the banks who loan, but a huge amount of people pay back, defualts are rare. Profits are still made. average people would nearly always take this, then why do banks not offer it, well greed, they make more via interest. Government do not need to set oficial interest rates via RBA rather wage constaints and taxation. Even the pope endorsed it. It would have meant that the GFC would have never occured.

7. 200 years ago Western society in it's ignorance just about destroyed the Aboriginal culture, yes it was worse than the westerminister system in some ways, but in others better, many judges commented on their 'noble savage' characteristics, in that they never saught revenge, after punishment was made (for detterence reasons), people walked away and didn't talk about it again

As again this is clearly Western ignorance, fueled my media propaganda and sensationalism, it works for rating, to create fear and anger, the most powerful emotions, such reactions will mean such persons will return to watch news in the future (or atlest that the phycological theory behind such actions).

I have trials so might not comment back for a while, but I just felt it an injustice to go by without trying to correct some wrongs. Thank you.

 

[Kwayera]

Okay, great, Islam was better than the west in terms of women's rights (for the sake of argument) centuries ago. We have now leapfrogged it, so when is it going to catch up?

 

[ImVrySmrt]

Okay, great, Islam was better than the west in terms of women's rights (for the sake of argument) centuries ago. We have now leapfrogged it, so when is it going to catch up?

did you not understand? the actions of the taliban and those persons are clearly against islam, all schollars (Phd in islam, minimum age 40) are in agreement of this.
BTW i did not say that middle eastern society was ever better, just had different flaws, and better in some aspects. We are all human, we are all flawed.

sorry, but i really should go study now.

 

[Kwayera]

These aren't the actions of the Taliban. They're the actions of the Afghanistani government.

 

[ashie0]

I don't think its a case of islam 'catching up' to western society. Both cultures are different, the west is not the moral beacon of the world and cultures don't have to conform to our expectations.

 

[lolwth]

lol if the west isnt the moral beacon of the world, who is?


oh thats right, they are. Have a look at the top countries ranked by equality, freedom, quality of living etc etc

prove me wrong guy

 

[Kwayera]

I don't think its a case of islam 'catching up' to western society. Both cultures are different, the west is not the moral beacon of the world and cultures don't have to conform to our expectations.

Go and be a woman in an Islamic country, and then come back to me and say that.

 

[ashie0]

Go and be a woman in an Islamic country, and then come back to me and say that.

i've said before i completely disagree with the oppression of women, or anyone for that matter. personally, i think the law in this thread is particularly vile.

lol if the west isnt the moral beacon of the world, who is?


oh thats right, they are. Have a look at the top countries ranked by equality, freedom, quality of living etc etc

prove me wrong guy

that is exactly what i'm saying, there is no moral beacon of the world because different cultures have different idea's on morality. to think otherwise and compare cultures is ethnocentric and grossly ignorant.

 

[lolwth]

errr wrong

we have international bodies to decide these things

therefore the west is the bet

 

[ImVrySmrt]

errr wrong

we have international bodies to decide these things

therefore the west is the bet

I'm muslim, and something tells me the truth is not quite out there about the full legislation of these laws. But if this is the case with Afghanistan then I do not understand how they can justify any of this under Islamic/sharia law (since they call themselves an Islamic country). I find is quiet repulsive, and if this is the case well no society should tolerate such incidents, culture isn't a good enough reason. Although this could be because Afganistan has been influenced heavily over the years by the Taliban who have been really selective and quiet unislamic about their conduct, regardless something tells me this is media sensationalisation, it has happened before, I hope a report comes quick from the united nations, and neighbouring countries/agencies, cause if that is what happening to those women, well people need to act fast.

ahh Iraq, Iran, and Afganistan probably the most unstable counties in th world right now, well really the whole place is, even neutral jordan and jewish Isreal. Stop all war, plz

 

[hopethisworks]

Afghanistan passes 'barbaric' law diminishing women's rights | World news | guardian.co.uk


Disgusting.

best thing since sliced bread

 

[Planck]

did you not understand? the actions of the taliban and those persons are clearly against islam, all schollars (Phd in islam, minimum age 40) are in agreement of this.
BTW i did not say that middle eastern society was ever better, just had different flaws, and better in some aspects. We are all human, we are all flawed.

sorry, but i really should go study now.

Yeah but Western Civilization > Islamic Civilization by a long mile.

Economic indicators, standards of living, life expectancy, government transparency, individual rights and freedoms, etc.

Anyone saying the two are 'equal' is a moron.

 

[Planck]

that is exactly what i'm saying, there is no moral beacon of the world because different cultures have different idea's on morality. to think otherwise and compare cultures is ethnocentric and grossly ignorant.

Cultural relativism is axiomatically hypocritical, if you were older than four, you'd realise this you budding little trot.

Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.