accounting/finance salaries (1 Viewer)

[redruM]

Tuition fees aren't that expensive. They are $945 per module.

 

[Omnidragon]

First of all, I should congratulate those people who have a a cadetship at Big 4. The fact that, at such a nearly age, they went out of their way to find something like that is highly worthy of praise.

However, without detracting from their achievements, I'd say that cadetships aren't something that students who regard themselves as being in the very top cohort of students would probably want to consider.

There are far better opportunities out there if you think you could score very amazing results in your degree, while specialising in something like finance, actuary, maths, mechanical engineering or law. Some of these opportunities include management consulting or certain areas of finance.

A lot of people realise that a Big 4 grad job in areas such as auditing is not super-hard to get in. A good but not spectacular mark and a fairly mediocre, yet balanced life, would get you the grad position. If you're going to delay your degree by 2 years to get a leg into an auditing grad job, it might not be worth it.

 

[redruM]

A lot of people realise that a Big 4 grad job in areas such as auditing is not super-hard to get in. A good but not spectacular mark and a fairly mediocre, yet balanced life, would get you the grad position. If you're going to delay your degree by 2 years to get a leg into an auditing grad job, it might not be worth it.

Which is exactly what I based my decision to get out of the double degree, which would hold me back a year. People, are very uninformed when making decisions regarding university course selection. I chose to enroll in the double merely because my mark allowed me to.

 

[Emily.]

First of all, I should congratulate those people who have a a cadetship at Big 4. The fact that, at such a nearly age, they went out of their way to find something like that is highly worthy of praise.

However, without detracting from their achievements, I'd say that cadetships aren't something that students who regard themselves as being in the very top cohort of students would probably want to consider.

There are far better opportunities out there if you think you could score very amazing results in your degree, while specialising in something like finance, actuary, maths, mechanical engineering or law. Some of these opportunities include management consulting or certain areas of finance.

A lot of people realise that a Big 4 grad job in areas such as auditing is not super-hard to get in. A good but not spectacular mark and a fairly mediocre, yet balanced life, would get you the grad position. If you're going to delay your degree by 2 years to get a leg into an auditing grad job, it might not be worth it.

"Cohorts" of students goes out the window as soon as you leave school. The real world is not like that. Book smarts are a lot different from real world practical results and aptitude for success. In particular to your management consultant comment, i think someone with the extensive experience a traineeship offers is more valuable than a few years at uni with no work experience.
Also, I am working full time and am going to finish my degree in 3 1/2 years - thats only six months longer than it would take than doing it full time...i do 3 subs a semester plus one over summer school. I still have time to go out, have fun. I dont think im wasting time, im not going to be an auditor forever, but its alright money and looks great on my resume, plus is a launching pad to a career anywhere in the world.

 

[Omnidragon]

The impression I've been getting is that a lot of competitive positions still like book smarts. What I'm saying is really just hearsay.

But, nevertheless, alluding to those banking threads, the pattern at, for example, Goldman Sachs seems to be a preference for people with straight 90s and a mediocre yet balanced life rather than, for example, the graduate with mostly low 70s and high 60s and some pre-graduate/part-time work experience at an accounting/finance firm.

 

[:: ck ::]

The impression I've been getting is that a lot of competitive positions still like book smarts. What I'm saying is really just hearsay.

But, nevertheless, alluding to those banking threads, the pattern at, for example, Goldman Sachs seems to be a preference for people with straight 90s and a mediocre yet balanced life rather than, for example, the graduate with mostly low 70s and high 60s and some pre-graduate/part-time work experience at an accounting/finance firm.

if you're talking investment banks, i really think it has to do with what division you're applying for...

 

[CrashOveride]

The impression I've been getting is that a lot of competitive positions still like book smarts. What I'm saying is really just hearsay.

But, nevertheless, alluding to those banking threads, the pattern at, for example, Goldman Sachs seems to be a preference for people with straight 90s and a mediocre yet balanced life rather than, for example, the graduate with mostly low 70s and high 60s and some pre-graduate/part-time work experience at an accounting/finance firm.

Hearsay from people that work at GS?

 

[Omnidragon]

Yea... hearsay from a few friends who have done internships and/or received grad offers there. Of the people I know, there was a guy who had a much lower average - in the 70s. But his father was somebody higher-up... so one must wonder what to make of that.

It's very hard to come to a conclusion. I am trying to draw an inference relying on what's happenned to people I know. The problem is the fact that they got in with a superb resume doesn't mean you can't get in with just a very good resume. Further, none of them work in HR (obviously), so what they say wouldn't necessarily be the best reflection of what really goes on.

But I guess if these people could make it via a similar path to one another, a pattern inevitably emerges. So, assumming you possess similar qualities and followed a similar pattern, chances are you're probably on the right track.

 

[humphreybear]

i read the post before bagging accounting but the bottom line is accounting is THE degree/major for business. there are more CEOs (from top companies) in this country that are from Accountant backgrounds than there are from any other profession, including law or finance.

examples include John Fletcher of coles myer, Chip Goodyear of bhp billition, Frank O'Halloran of QBE, Brett Godfrey of Virgin, Trevor O'Hoy from Fosters...the list goes on and on...

not to mention the 99% of CFOs who are accountants, and the 25% or so of directors who are accountants, or the chairman of ASIC jeffrey lucy, or the Auditor Generals, or chairmen like don argus at bhp or margaret jackson at qantas, or rick allert at coles myer etc...

hell, even the ceo of a top tier law firm, minter ellison is a former kpmg parter

partnership is not the only option available to accountants

on a lighter note, barnaby joyce is also an accountant (FCPA)


If you dispute any of my claims by all means check them up yourself

 

[yook]

in regard to the co-ops, nsw is offering more to current bcom students [for acct]... i didnt apply last yr cos i didnt noe abt it :apig: but if i wasnt dumb enough to read, i would've..

anyways ive come to enjoy finance alot.. and only really finding accounting1501 alrite..but both subjects are first yr introductory ones so im not sure if they r a correct indication.. i thought co-ops would b an amazing opportunity but now im not so sure..

should i apply anyway.. IF i did and got it.. woudl it mean i would b practically locked in accounting even after my degree [planning to double major..] im scaredd!

 

[Raginsheep]

From what I've derived from Claudia's comments during tutes, the acctounting we do in 1501 is very different from "real world accounting". 1501 is more book keeping so keep that in mind. People will correct me on this if I am wrong.

I think you should apply and see if you get offered. At least then you have the option of turning it down if its not what you want. I also think that they might be restricting what majors you'll be able to combine it with though.

 

[Minai]

I don't see how your post refutes the proposition that the average investment banker makes more than the average accountant. Of course, we have no way of verifying it without sampling the entire global populus of bankers and accountants. As far as a short and succint response is needed, Allan Moss also makes a lot of money.... but what does that prove?

What people are talking about is that your average grad accountant at PwC makes 40k +5% bonus? Your average grad ibanker at UBS makes 80k + 40% bonus?

But don't you work more in Ibanking? I've been talking to people that work 100 hour weeks, and when you do the maths, Ibankers don't earn that much more per hour (if we are simply talking about money here)

 

[redruM]

But don't you work more in Ibanking? I've been talking to people that work 100 hour weeks, and when you do the maths, Ibankers don't earn that much more per hour (if we are simply talking about money here)

I walked past the Ernst & Young building today.

 

[Pace_T]

so wats the bottom line i dnt get it...
thanx

 

[Omnidragon]

I guess the hours can be a lot more. But... I don't know if people have factored in the bonuses when they work out the average hourly rate.

Besides, the opportunity to work that many hours and hence make that many hours' worth of money is itself an attraction.

While auditing might offer more per hour, it doesn't offer you any more hours. It's all about personal preference. If you are prepared to work more hours and hence make more money, then IB should be a good choice. Not so much because auditing earns you less per hour, but because it doesn't let you work that many hours. In fact, the truth is working more hours doesn't make a difference because your salary is fixed.

This is further complicated by the fact that we don't know if people's average hourly salary of IB includes the 50% bonuses.

Finally, there are areas in an IB that don't require as much hours but, I think, come close to IB salaries. In particular, I am thinking of trading and the potenial bonuses. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact figures for trading. I'm just speculating from what I've heard. In another thread, I asked about trading figures, but no one is prepared to give an answer or, in fact, no one knows because it doesn't seem like anyone here has ever worked in or really even considered working in areas such as trading.

 

[Minai]

I guess it should come down to personal preference, if the money is similar per hour. The experience, the status, the challenge of an IB, or the mundane, relatively relaxed work of an accounting firm.

 

[turtleface]

Hi, my friend's an investment banking analyst.

I thought I'll give you guys some insight about it cause it seems to have been a bit overexaggerated in terms of how "prestigious" it is lol

1stly the work is not as good as you think. For those who have worked in Management Accounting, think about all the hours you spend mucking around with Excel, now multiply that by 10000 and you have investment banking lol.

he's in the corporate finance division of the IB dept, and he says usually the associates give him like 50 spreadsheets full of data and he has to crunch the numbers and make models and stuff. usually he'll be in front of the computer non stop from 9am till 10pm on a good day. so i assure you (at least for his IB dept) its not glamourous, at least not until VP/director level where you get to go meet clients (which you do at vacationer level at big 4 anyway)

also, working in audit myself at big 4, i can say that hours are also very long at least for half the year (in total), but only require you to work to around the 7pm/8pm level. Auditors seem to get off really good on Fridays though. Everyone just pisses of for drinks. Lets face it, audit gets shit pay and its shit until equity partner level, but at least the salaries are protected by law (have to be reasonably high accoring to corporations act) and there has been good growth lately. Audit is also a good stepping path (like what the humprey guy said) to good jobs like CFO or Auditor General.

Plus one more consideration, as an Auditor, you can get a job as a IBer but not the other way around.

and before i forget 1 more thing, bonuses are about 50%-100% if you are good. so potentially you can earn $200,000 as a IB analyst first year out. Just expect to work 8-12am Monday to Saturday, and also half a day on Sunday. Say goodbye to your life, you wife, your sanity, and your health

hoped that was enlightening but I stress this is my opinion and based on stuff from my experience please listen to other people's experiences too.!!!!

 

[Omnidragon]

I think for some people, the 'prestige' comes from how hard it is to get in. The difficulty probably arises because it's good pay. So I'm guessing prestige has less to do with work type, but more to do with money.

 

[Minai]

I think I'll stick to auditing for the next 10 years, the thought of 100 hour+ weeks and no social life/time for yourself just turns me off completely

 

[turtleface]

what do auditors actaully do?

ok, firstly I've worked as an auditor for vac work at start of this year and will also do so again later. For starters, this doesn't make me knowlegable about the subject at all despite what other vaccas might say. Any student who has done work exp at an accounting firm and claims to know what auditing involves is bsing. cause as an unqualified accountant they dont let u do much auditing. having said that though I'll try my best to explain, without bsing, from my experience. Now thats my disclaimer. So I stress this is my opinion of what happens, at the Big 4 place I was at.

Auditors (I presume you refer to External Financial Auditors) use statistical and sampling methods to test the figures on your balance sheet essentially. In addition to this they check that your statements are in accordance with AIFRS (including UIG interpretations) and other Corp Act reporting requirements. As a result of SOX404, a lot more internal control testing goes on now too. Auditors also have to have forensic accounting training to detect fraudulent construction of statements.

Grad and Vacationer and Cadet Auditors do nothing more than what a IB grad would do, i.e. stuffing around with excel and adding up numbers. and photocopying and report binding and shit. funnily, this involves literally being given a balance sheet and seeing if the figures add up, using a pencil and calculator lol (though I'm not sure if this is to keep the juniors occupied)
other stuff include ringing up creditors/debtors/vendors checking account balances, checking out issues with data from the ERP/IT systems that the client's Finance team uses.
I was in the Financial Services business unit but in other sections they may also get you to count stock, do stocktakes (Samples of course), to add to the veracity of the figures in the Bsheet.

Seniors do more complicated number crunching and some compliance issues RE: accounting standards. Seniors and AMs are similar in this regard I think (see below)

Assistant Managers start addressing Accounting Stds compliance issues and have to do research and stuff as well regarding accounting treatments. They are also heavily involved in the planning process.

Managers review all of the work the lower people do, and deal with complexities arising from the audit. They are also responsible for dealing with clients.

Senior Managers do the same, but again, more complex I think, not really sure

Partners are responsible for the whole audit and their arses are on the line but from my experience they just do a final check and some dealing with issues arising like independence violations. They are also responsible for dealing with client. They also have to attend annual general meetings to answer shareholder questions and also they have to meet with Audit Committees and present audit findings to management, i.e. liaison and stuff. Partners also do the plans and stuff for the audit. Needless to say, I'm sure partners do a lot more, they just don't disclose it to me

The Partners are pretty good, they come in like on the last day and spend like a few hours looking at the work papers but are able to pick up on shit straight away wheres theres problems.

sorry that was a bit brief but my hands really hurting and i'll stop now...lol