Accounting Cadetships (2 Viewers)

[ND]

yeah sorry I forgot last time (selective memory ), but I met a trader the other day who transferred in from big 4 audit...I'm sure its common.

Which product is he trading and where?

I disagree, I think it is easier to get into a IBank with an accounting major as opposed to a Finance major (in Australia) for areas like product control, maybe not necessarily the actual IBD where it seems a law degree is the vogue right now.

Come on, everyone knows that "IB" means a front office position (if not IBD).

I mean, the well known Ibankers are either CAs/ex big 4 like the head of Macbank's IBD or Law grads (like Turnbull) or Economics grads (like all the others). Since when has there been some hard arse Finance major in Investment Banking?

Like i said before, times have changed. Why don't you look at current trends instead of looking at the qualifications of people that entered the industry 20 years ago. I'm sure that only an extremely small proportion of IB grads come from areas other than commerce/maths/law/engineering (there aren't any figures released but everything i've heard from people in the industry suggests this).

Finance is a joke, its like a 4 subject major. Hence there aren't any jobs that specifically require a Finance major, not even Investment Banking. They just teach you the capital market shit in house. Finance is becoming like the management major, its something everyone needs to know, but not necessarily what you do at uni.

Yes finance is a pretty general degree, but what's your point?

 

[mr_shittles]

Here's your prayers answered Mr Shittles. You have until the 25th before it closes.

http://www.careers.macquarie.com/jobDetails.asp?sJobIDs=256994&lLocationID=2950%2C2951%2C2952%2C2953%2C2954%2C2955%2C2956%2C2957%2C2971%2C2977%2C2980%2C2981%2C2986%2C2987%2C2998%2C2999%2C4858%2C4859%2C4860%2C4861%2C2984&lLocationGroupID_Expand=1&sJobNo=investment&sKeywords=investment&lSkillTypeID=&stp=WEBSITE&sLanguage=en

Where, oh where??????????? does it say "finance people welcome"?

It specifically says :

Not: random finance people. Specifically they want Accountants, Lawyers, Engineers and Actuaries.

Ah Sorted mate. . . I think I see a career for mr_shittles at Maccas!

Why did they not ask for random finance people? If you've met investment bankers, you'll notice that there are quite a few of them who are finance graduates, indeed they've done finance honours. The above-mentioned ad targets people from other professions . . . why? because often the top finance students have already been recruited into investments banks at the point at which the ad targets potential applicants. . . and it may not be as valuable for the investment banks to pick those that have done finance majors and but not succeeded in gaining entry into IB in the past.

So I got until the 25th eh? Maccas here I come . . . LOL

 

[Raginsheep]

Having not done a finance subject yet, does a finance major impart any skills on a graduate that an accountant or other non-finance graduate does not have?

 

[seremify007]

Thanks for letting me answer this one

Sorry if this has been asked before, but doesn't an accounting cadetship limit your choices in the future? To decide to major in accounting when you don't know what it's like is quite risky, isn't it? Or perhaps i'm just missing something completely here?

Look at it this way, cadetships are advertised as being a great way for people to experience work in the field they are studying at uni, and furthermore, one of the requirements is that you intend to major in Accounting at university, with some firms restricting that to certain degrees, certain universities, and even requiring you to study subjects which will enable progression to post-graduate qualifications. In other words, it's for people already intending to major in Accounting anyway. From a personal perspective, if you're someone who's only going to be studying Accounting because you got offered a cadetship- then I'm inclined to think you won't benefit as much as someone who already had an interest in the subject and just wanted to experience the work-side of things.

Back to what you said though, yes it is quite risky to embark upon such a journey without knowing what it's going to be like- but no matter what anyone tells you, if you have a decent job with good prospects, even if you don't end up staying in it, it will have an infinite number of benefits- not only do you have experience in the industry and know what kindof work to expect, but it also gives you the opportunity to find out if you enjoy that work or if you want to pursue other options. Furthermore, work experience in the industry, or even a professional services firm is likely to improve your chances of getting a job elsewhere whether it be in the same industry, or in anything else. The other little things you gain from the job besides the CV listing include the training, interaction with clients (you also never know who'll offer you a job!), development of a professional attitude, etc... things which no matter how many times you study out of a textbook, won't match the experience you gain from actually working in the industry.

The point I'm trying to make here is, whilst it is risky if you aren't entirely sure you want to do accounting, it doesn't limit your future options- if anything, it'll open up more doors, give you a better understanding of what you like and what you don't, and when your penultimate year comes, you won't have to worry so much about struggling to balance between uni and finding a job.

As mr_shittles pointed out, I'm yet to hear of any cadetships which force you to do a single major. It's mutually beneficial for you to learn something else. Even in my firm I've noticed there are some people (not necessarily cadets) who have studied totally random things like engineering and science but have proven to be valuable team members because of their outside knowledge beyond accounting.

In addition, with accounting as a career in general, is it one of those jobs that has a "glass ceiling"? What I mean is like... it can't progress as far as other areas in B Commerce, such as Finance.

Please correct me if I'm wrong with any of my points.

I think even in big firms and organisations, there's always promotional opportunities. With turnover rates quite high due to the high demand for qualified accountants (I don't like using the term loosely to describe book keepers and payroll clerks!) as well as the threat of the private sector, firms are continuously trying to find ways to retain their staff. Once you start working I think you'll realise that whilst remuneration is very important, there's much more to a good working life than just remuneration and title. Nonetheless though, I don't think glass ceilings are that prevalent in accounting, especially considering the number of other jobs out there which (if you're a good candidate) you could easily land.

 

[mr_shittles]

and basically the overkill in the post above to prove the point, is sorta justified, cause i distinctly remember people saying something like "well if you work in accounting you pretty much stuck there", thats plain wrong.

yeah, i actually heard that one too . . . but by feeding more misinformation it doesn't really help anyone make an informed choice. no matter where you go in business, accounting is a solid base . . . that's undisputable.

 

[konstantine']

Hello ... I've just been reading through some of the threads and I was wondering what are the implications of double dipping? Can you get out of a cadetship once you've signed (but havent commenced work) for another cadetship?

 

[joe_rulez37]

Thank you Mr Shittles, Turtleface, ND and especially Seremify007 for your input. My knowledge of Accounting and Cadetships has really improved after reading your posts.

I'm still a bit confused about one thing though: Is it better off doing B Commerce at UNSW/USyd doing 2 majors (eg Accounting and Finance) or doing Comm(Business)/Law at Macquarie/UTS? I know for certain that I'll never make Comm/Law at UNSW/Usyd

 

[mr_shittles]

Thank you Mr Shittles, Turtleface, ND and especially Seremify007 for your input. My knowledge of Accounting and Cadetships has really improved after reading your posts.

I'm still a bit confused about one thing though: Is it better off doing B Commerce at UNSW/USyd doing 2 majors (eg Accounting and Finance) or doing Comm(Business)/Law at Macquarie/UTS? I know for certain that I'll never make Comm/Law at UNSW/Usyd

This is one of those easy to answer questions . . .

If you really want to do law (ie. that's your area of interest or one of your principal areas of interest) a BCom just won't do. So I guess without the marks to get law at newsouth/usyd you'd be better off going to UTS.

Alternatively, like a fair few people that I know, you can do a Commerce degree and transfer after first year. You'll require a 75 or 80 average at newsouth or usyd respectively based on a UAI of 97 I think.

Which one is better depends on what you want to do.

 

[Raginsheep]

Ask yourself do you really need that law degree.

 

[csmg]

wow

this thread is full of insecure accountants in big 4 firms who think they're king shit.

when will you finally wake up and admit the fact that your precious stocktake counting widget skills are actually worthless.

no your accounting major will not get you into an investment banking role. dipshits.

 

[mr_shittles]

accountants can join front office IBanks easily

Even though reception appears to be "front office", strictly speaking, it doesn't count.

 

[seremify007]

Hello ... I've just been reading through some of the threads and I was wondering what are the implications of double dipping? Can you get out of a cadetship once you've signed (but havent commenced work) for another cadetship?

Let's just say it reflects very poorly on you. Whilst quite a few people who accept cadetships end up deflecting before commencement, if you drop it just to join another firm for whatever reason, then it's kindof like saying your signature and promise of commitment to something mean nothing. Just like auditing and big firms, it's not so much the skills which matter, but also the integrity of the people. The same applies to people who double dip with cadetship and coops.

... and this doesn't even take into account the selfishness factor of taking up a spot which you don't really want, and wasting the time of the interviewers.

Thank you Mr Shittles, Turtleface, ND and especially Seremify007 for your input. My knowledge of Accounting and Cadetships has really improved after reading your posts.

I'm still a bit confused about one thing though: Is it better off doing B Commerce at UNSW/USyd doing 2 majors (eg Accounting and Finance) or doing Comm(Business)/Law at Macquarie/UTS? I know for certain that I'll never make Comm/Law at UNSW/Usyd

I think it's because we have a lot of pride in our profession

With regards to your question, I'd say it really depends on you. It is in my opinion that law isn't really as useful as people make it out to be when considering the fact it takes longer and unless you're planning to work in a field which will make use of it whether that be the law profession, or something which benefits from knowledge of law (eg tax), then it's a waste of an additional couple of years which you could've gained your CA or other post-graduate qualification. As a cadet, most firms will prefer you to do a single degree with double major because that way you can progress to CA faster which makes you a more valuable employee (albeit, one who's more likely to get headhunted!).

You should consider not just what kindof work you'll be doing but whether or not it'll help you in the future. Law is probably a great subject if you enjoy it- but if you only want a bit of a grounding in law, you'll find that as it's a prereq for CA (well it used to be- not sure if it still is), you'll be studying subjects like Business Law in university (eg LEGT1711 Legal Environment of Commerce in UNSW) and this way you get to touch on a lot of things but not go into the same level of depth that you would if you were doing a double degree.

I personally never considered doing law purely because I wasn't that excited about it in year 11 (dropping it before HSC year), but if you have a passion for it and your firm will allow it- then maybe it's an avenue worth considering.

As others have pointed out, alot of people choose to transfer to Comm/Law later on. I'm not sure how you perform in high school or how you'll perform in uni, but to me it was a big shock and my marks went from being in the 90s, to me being quite satisfied with 70%+. There are people who will just ace uni I've realised, but I'm not one of them. So whilst it's a good option to keep in mind, don't rely on it too heavily.

My sister who graduated from uni many many years ago also had quite a few friends doing Comm/Law. Interestingly enough, most of them either didn't finish the law and just graduated with Commerce so they could get a job, or when they graduated, found it too hard to get a law job and ended up working in Commerce as a grad anyway. I'm inclined to think that law isn't as exciting as it seems (thank the TV for that) and that job opportunities aren't as readily available as Commerce.

wow

this thread is full of insecure accountants in big 4 firms who think they're king shit.

when will you finally wake up and admit the fact that your precious stocktake counting widget skills are actually worthless.

no your accounting major will not get you into an investment banking role. dipshits.

You're probably right- an accounting major alone won't get you into IB. I'm sure you know all about working in an IB though- so why don't you tell us what you had which got you in?

I'm not sure about the other guys but I'm inclined to think that whilst accountants aren't everything, if you've worked with the finance and accounting peeps at MB, DB, and whatever other clients I've worked on, you stand a better chance than just some fresh grad who knows nothing and noone. Yes I'm aware that there's a diff between IB as in the investment bankers and IB as in the accounting people, I don't think it hurts if you know the people and the way the company works.

I guess my "precious stocktake counting widget skills" are worthless. You should probably tell some of my clients that the thousands of dollars they spend a day on me is a waste when they could use it to hire you as a consultant! Besides aren't I too insecure? [/sarcasm]

Sigh your post made me laugh.

 

[nobby]

prolli heaps of ppl have asked this, but i cant be bothered readin previous posts...

n e 1 been offered positions? and where at?

 

[jase_]

Cadetship discussions in here only. Acct vs IB discussions in other thread!

 

[konstantine']

Thanks seremify007 for replying. Didn't think anyone who =P.

I know double dipping is frowned upon but my situation is more errr complicated (for want of a better word) than that. Like everyone I had my preferences with regard to which firm I wanted a cadetship with but when my first preference didn’t reply, I assumed I didn’t get through and naturally I accepted one with the second firm. A few weeks later I find out my first preference firm had their cadetship program delayed because their staff coordinator was on annual leave. At the interview they hinted they would make an offer so I’ve been sort of stressing over the entire thing. I could sit here and recount my entire life story lol but yeah just wanted to find out more before I make any decisions. My friend from EY mentioned something about paying the firm if you decided to accept another cadetship once you’ve signed. Don’t know if it’s true but just throwing it out there to see what you guys think.

 

[:: ck ::]

wow

this thread is full of insecure accountants in big 4 firms who think they're king shit.

when will you finally wake up and admit the fact that your precious stocktake counting widget skills are actually worthless.

no your accounting major will not get you into an investment banking role. dipshits.

what are you, an idiot?

define "investment banking role"

i can name 4 family friends of mine who did cadetships / co-op in accounting and have ended up working at investment banks

 

[Conspirocy]

Thanks seremify007 for replying. Didn't think anyone who =P.

I know double dipping is frowned upon but my situation is more errr complicated (for want of a better word) than that. Like everyone I had my preferences with regard to which firm I wanted a cadetship with but when my first preference didn’t reply, I assumed I didn’t get through and naturally I accepted one with the second firm. A few weeks later I find out my first preference firm had their cadetship program delayed because their staff coordinator was on annual leave. At the interview they hinted they would make an offer so I’ve been sort of stressing over the entire thing. I could sit here and recount my entire life story lol but yeah just wanted to find out more before I make any decisions. My friend from EY mentioned something about paying the firm if you decided to accept another cadetship once you’ve signed. Don’t know if it’s true but just throwing it out there to see what you guys think.

were you paid any momey?

did the contract say anything about not being able to work anywhere else for a period of time?

Is there anything in the contract like that?


i rkn they would try and get you to pay costs of administration or something like that for wasting their time if they really wanted to. Its employment, so they dont own you, you can leave whenever you want

 

[konstantine']

were you paid any momey?

did the contract say anything about not being able to work anywhere else for a period of time?

Is there anything in the contract like that?


i rkn they would try and get you to pay costs of administration or something like that for wasting their time if they really wanted to. Its employment, so they dont own you, you can leave whenever you want

I haven't commenced work so I haven't been paid and no the contract didn't say anything like that. Yeah paying for the admin costs is what I expected.

I was thinking about how my actions will mean someone else has missed out on an opportunity but I don't think it's too late for them to make offers to someone else. Their applications officially closed on September 29th but they offered me the cadetship around mid-August. So if I did decide to accept a different cadetship now and told them straight away then hopefully they could make the offer to another candidate?