Accounting Cadetships 2010 (2 Viewers)

[seremify007]

I'd probably go with the BAcc unless you really wanted to work with that particular mid-tier firm. Depends on your reasons for doing it- career progression, short term financial reward, long-term experience, opportunity to try lots of things, networking opportunities, etc... both have different pros/cons.

BAcc typically means you get to try larger firms/organisations and see lots of different things.

Mid-tier would be good if you really want to work with that firm or in a specific division which you have been offered.

 

[twistedrebel]

I would personally UTS BAcc imo, finish a year earlier,
Although Big 4 vs UTS BAcc, would go with big 4

 

[Angela92]

but with a cadetship ur kinda guaranteed employment when you graduate, whereas bacc ur not, although it is a 100% employment rate[from what ive read]
I was also wondering, if u get a cadetship at a mid-tier firm, do you have a better chance of getting a grad. Position at a big 4?

 

[seremify007]

but with a cadetship ur kinda guaranteed employment when you graduate, whereas bacc ur not, although it is a 100% employment rate[from what ive read]
I was also wondering, if u get a cadetship at a mid-tier firm, do you have a better chance of getting a grad. Position at a big 4?

Agreed in principle. Basically with a cadetship, by default you will get the grad contract/offer in conjunction with the grant (i.e. you sign the grad contract in exchange for the grant). On the other hand with coop (both BAcc and UNSW Coop) you are still going to have to apply for grad jobs as normal when the applications open in your final year. Yes you may get special treatment because your BAcc subject to certain rules which firms must abide by (i.e. they can only offer a set number of positions to BAcc scholars) but it's by no means guaranteed and even then, it's not guaranteed which firm/company you will work for.

Your second question is a bit more difficult to say. Your experience in a midtier firm will be recognised and will put you in a much better position compared to other grad applications but there's no definitive answer.

 

[twistedrebel]

Seremify is BAcc/UNSW Co-op looked good upon when applying for graduate positions?

 

[HSC2010]

The workload for Cadetships seem heaps intense. Work Full time/study part time for 2 years and then Study full time/Work part time for 2 years Bye Bye life :wave:It would be worth it though in the long term if i can get one.

With the UTS BAcc would you achieve much with the two 6 month internships. It would seem as though you wouldn't be that qualified to do much and you would just be getting over that awkward odd job stage by the time you finish. I guess it does give you a range of experience to determine which field you want to get into. Your basically guaranteed a job though with one of the sponsorship companies when you finish right? [Edit: Just realised Seremfy kinda already answered this above]

Anyone know what the pay is like for both cadetships and UTS BAcc? (Just curious, obviously not going to be the deciding factor if i get offered both)

And are there any good questions i can ask the interviewers when they offer towards the end of the interview for both Cadetships and UTS BAcc? I know they like you asking questions.

 

[twistedrebel]

regarding employement, not guranteed but 100% employment rate, so your almost guranteed.

Cadetships range from 30-36k
UTS: 14k first year
14.5k second year
15k third year (half is tied, that you sign up to work for one of the sponsors)

 

[twistedrebel]

regarding employement, not guranteed but 100% employment rate, so your almost guranteed.

Cadetships range from 30-36k
UTS: 14k first year
14.5k second year
15k third year (half is tied, that you sign up to work for one of the sponsors)

 

[seremify007]

Seremify is BAcc/UNSW Co-op looked good upon when applying for graduate positions?

Of course because you've got good experience and shown commitment to the career path/field.

The workload for Cadetships seem heaps intense. Work Full time/study part time for 2 years and then Study full time/Work part time for 2 years Bye Bye life :wave:It would be worth it though in the long term if i can get one.

Disagree greatly with this remark purely because when I did my cadetship, we had 4 hours a week off work (i.e. half a day) to do part time uni (2 subjects). But most of my batch including myself managed to overload and do 3 subjects (4 hours of leave only!) whilst balancing this with work. There was also no additional study leave either. Now you guys get a full day off!

With the UTS BAcc would you achieve much with the two 6 month internships. It would seem as though you wouldn't be that qualified to do much and you would just be getting over that awkward odd job stage by the time you finish. I guess it does give you a range of experience to determine which field you want to get into. Your basically guaranteed a job though with one of the sponsorship companies when you finish right? [Edit: Just realised Seremfy kinda already answered this above]

Agree with your post in that you get to see lots of different things but you never are there long enough to actually get into the work/detail. It's more of an opportunity to see the culture. Furthermore if you are essentially only interning for 6 months (versus 2 years + more when you grad) the incentive for the sponsor to train you up as much as they would to a full time employee is very different. Big 4 firms tend to put their trainees and grads on the same induction training for example (i.e. between a week and two).

Anyone know what the pay is like for both cadetships and UTS BAcc? (Just curious, obviously not going to be the deciding factor if i get offered both)

And are there any good questions i can ask the interviewers when they offer towards the end of the interview for both Cadetships and UTS BAcc? I know they like you asking questions.

See below.

Question-wise; I always went with things along the lines of why did they choose <insert firm name>, or what keeps them motivated to stay with the firm, what kind of work is expected from someone who is new to accounting, etc... try to keep it to a positive topic. I have heard of people even asking "so what does an auditor actually do?" in their interview

regarding employement, not guranteed but 100% employment rate, so your almost guranteed.

Cadetships range from 30-36k
UTS: 14k first year
14.5k second year
15k third year (half is tied, that you sign up to work for one of the sponsors)

The cadetship rate you quote is per annum and can grow with CPI/regrades within your work. There is also potential for bonuses as well at some firms. Of course there are the other usual benefits too (laptop, corporate credit card, stationery supplies, etc). But that being said, even though the cadetship salary is pretty decent now, money shouldn't be the driving factor behind your decision because in the long run, this is peanuts compared to the years you waste in an area you're not interested in.

 

[HSC2010]

Thanks heaps for that information Seremify007 and twistedrebel,

So you had a cadetship Seremify? I understand you probably got a big4 cadetship, but If a mid tier firm offers a 2nd round interview what does that usually mean in terms of actually getting the cadetship? Would many 2nd round interviews be given and do you know usually (I understand each firm would be different) how many cadets they would usually cut or make final offers to from the 2nd round?

 

[seremify007]

Thanks heaps for that information Seremify007 and twistedrebel,

So you had a cadetship Seremify? I understand you probably got a big4 cadetship, but If a mid tier firm offers a 2nd round interview what does that usually mean in terms of actually getting the cadetship? Would many 2nd round interviews be given and do you know usually (I understand each firm would be different) how many cadets they would usually cut or make final offers to from the 2nd round?

Correct. I can't really comment much on midtier cadetships as I didn't go for any 2nd round interviews. My understanding is that 2nd round interviews are where you go for either your partner interview or your group exercise (depending on whichever one you didn't already do in your 1st round). Therefore if it's a partner interview, I'd imagine partner time is very valuable and hence they would only want to do interviews with people who they were seriously considering as potential. Group interviews however would probably have a much higher ratio of candidates to positions as they are cheaper and easier to administer.

In terms of numbers though, I don't think it's possible to predict. You're better off asking the firm's recruitment staff how many positions there are. That being said, you're better off concentrating on paying attention in your interview than trying to figure out your odds of getting an offer

 

[Angela92]

Hey I was wondering If I did business services at a mid tier firm- what is the possibilitiry or opportunities of moving to say a bank such as mac. Bank or say an industry specific company such as amex, QANTAS etc? after I graduate.
I'm just weighing the pros and cons and the long term results, before I sign a contract or anything

 

[seremify007]

Hey I was wondering If I did business services at a mid tier firm- what is the possibilitiry or opportunities of moving to say a bank such as mac. Bank or say an industry specific company such as amex, QANTAS etc? after I graduate.
I'm just weighing the pros and cons and the long term results, before I sign a contract or anything

You'd have positive feedback / relevant experience on your CV which is always good but if you do intend to go down that route, you're probably better off with BAcc (as you have higher chance of exposure to those companies) or a Big4 cadetship where you can specialise in the relevant industry group. A bank is very very specific and having an FS background will be extremely helpful (otherwise you're just a normal grad). AMEX I'm not too sure about as I don't know exactly what they do in Australia. As for QANTAS, it depends what part of the business you'd want to move into- every company has an accounting/finance operations department, but usually these large companies (unless FS which is very technical) aren't that sought after at your level (i.e. before uni).

 

[rockstar21]

hey guys,

just wanted to ask about contracts and the ability to back out of them. i have got a few contracts and a few decisions pending from other firms. the problem is the contract signing deadlines are all over the place so i dont know whether i should turn down a offer or rather sign the contract and cancel it later.

any idea's guys?

 

[seremify007]

hey guys,

just wanted to ask about contracts and the ability to back out of them. i have got a few contracts and a few decisions pending from other firms. the problem is the contract signing deadlines are all over the place so i dont know whether i should turn down a offer or rather sign the contract and cancel it later.

any idea's guys?

Well at the end of the day if you've signed a contract saying you will work and they will pay you, it's a signed agreement which you have been offered and you have accepted- i.e. given your word. I know there are many ways to get out of the contract and whatnot, but also keep in mind that beyond legal obligations, you also risk reputation damage. After all, one of the key risks a firm or company faces is they have offered someone a position, the person has accepted, and then when the time comes to start noone shows up and nothing gets done.

With a cadetship, most firms do budget in some buffer/gap with this in mind because a lot of people do change their mind later on. That being said it's still not desirable to back out of a contract. You really should know what you're getting yourself into before you sign, and if you're not sure that you want to commit to accounting or a full time job, you probably aren't ready for a cadetship since it does require a LOT of commitment.

Also one other risk you may want to keep in mind is if you accept a Big4 contract but really are holding out for BAcc or UNSW coop, don't forget that it's likely to be the SAME people doing the interviewing/selection/recruitment process for both cadetships and scholarships/coops as well as in subsequent years when it comes to placements.

I hope you don't interpret this post as saying once you've signed you're commited and there's nothing you can do about it. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying here is that whilst there is nothing stopping you from backing out and it's unlikely you will be sued for breach of contract/damages, it still doesn't reflect well on you as an individual.

 

[seremify007]

ps. Please DO NOT PM ME unless your question is of a private/personal nature. Generic questions such as "what's the advantages of a coop over a cadetship" can be asked in public and I see no reason why it can't be posted here. You may even get a better response if you get multiple people talking

I'm not trying to sound rude when I respond to PM's with "please ask in cadetship thread".

 

[rockstar21]

thanks seremify but i dont think you understood me lol

its not about whether i am ready for a cadetship and whether or not i know i want to do it. the problem i have is that i have got a few offers already and a few companies im waiting to hear back from. and i dont know whether i should reject an offer hoping that i will get another and then finding out i end up with nothing lol.

would you recomend me calling the firms and asking them to increase contract deadlines or to take the offer and then tell them i cant do it. and also in most of the contracts it does say that if you are in the probation period all you need is one weeks notice in exiting the contract.

thanks once again

 

[seremify007]

thanks seremify but i dont think you understood me lol

its not about whether i am ready for a cadetship and whether or not i know i want to do it. the problem i have is that i have got a few offers already and a few companies im waiting to hear back from. and i dont know whether i should reject an offer hoping that i will get another and then finding out i end up with nothing lol.

would you recomend me calling the firms and asking them to increase contract deadlines or to take the offer and then tell them i cant do it. and also in most of the contracts it does say that if you are in the probation period all you need is one weeks notice in exiting the contract.

thanks once again

Apologies for that. My understanding is the ICAA has set timeframes/periods which all firms offering cadetships must adhere to with regards to deadlines for acceptances. From memory it's 3 weeks to accept/reject. Typically Big4 firms make their offers first, then midtiers, etc..

So with regards to your situation, if you do find yourself in that period of overlap where you are waiting on an offer from a firm, I'd avoid signing/accepting the ones you already have. If you do need more time, you can call to discuss with HR but whatever you do, don't sign and cancel especially just to move to another firm/scholarship because in this industry we all know each other and it reflects very poorly on you.

As a practical tip, try to minimise the number of offers you are 'actively considering' whether this is done by simply picking the ones you definitely want or by ranking the firms/offers and then working from that. This way you can reject/decline the ones you definitely don't want.

If you do get stuck in that situation whereby you have to accept/reject an offer but you're still holding out, well.. that's a gamble. If it were me, I'd lock in what I can rather than hold out for a better offer in this case. You can always look for grad opportunities elsewhere (or even vaccie/internships in penultimate year) and when I was looking at this some years ago, my thought process always was I'd rather be the firm's first choice than a bigger firm's last choice.

 

[rockstar21]

Thanks seremify that helped alot

just out of curiosity, in the big 4, are you in audit/assurance?
if so, do you mainly work with a certain client base?
because i think i might have to start considering where i want to work within the assurance division and whether i should go into Assurance Financial Sevices

 

[seremify007]

Thanks seremify that helped alot

just out of curiosity, in the big 4, are you in audit/assurance?
if so, do you mainly work with a certain client base?
because i think i might have to start considering where i want to work within the assurance division and whether i should go into Assurance Financial Sevices

Yes- I work in Financial Services audit within a Big4 firm. I personally started in a different group within Assurance which specialised in services (e.g. transportation/logistics, property, government) but moved to FS after a year.