Abortion banned in South Dakota (2 Viewers)

[Silver Persian]

Apart from the fact that when an abortion can be performed the baby cannot think or feel, and is just a bundle of cells. Is chopping off my finger murder?

And yes, the cells have the potential to become humans, but so does every sperm and egg - is masturbation / having a period now murder?

*Waits for retort with possible reference to coma patients*

 

[davin]

wrong place for this whole thing...theres a whole nice thread to debate abortion itself

 

[lala2]

I think rape, incest, and the endangering of the mother's health (this latter point--see below*) should be made exceptions to the law. No-one likes killing a life, but put it this way: if the baby was born, and the mother died, what kind of parent would it have? And even if the mother survived, and so did the baby, assuming the mother was a victim of rape or incest, most probably the mother would be traumatised by both the conception event and the birth of the baby (reminding her of the circumstances under which the baby was conceived), and therefore could be affected in the extent to which she can be a good mother to the baby.

Not only that, unwanted babies are unhappy babies, and roadside abandonings could increase (sorry if I'm thinking too much of China's one-child policy), or could be further victims of abuse (either on the mother's part, or her 'partner's' part, or whatever).

*However, if the mother has conceived of her own free will, and her health is in danger, she should bear the consequences for her decision. This is more for under-age sluts than genuine women who wanna be mothers, in which case abortion should be an option.

 

[davin]

why the big deal with incest?

 

[Rorix]

Apart from the fact that when an abortion can be performed the baby cannot think or feel, and is just a bundle of cells. Is chopping off my finger murder?

And yes, the cells have the potential to become humans, but so does every sperm and egg - is masturbation / having a period now murder?

Foetuses do not have the 'potential' to become human - they ARE HUMAN...and if you say they are not, what are they? Elephants? Monkeys?

And murder has never been defined by the cognative ability of the victim, a point which you yourself acknowledge with the coma reference, so I really must question why you bother posting it anyway.

I just don't have a problem with murder in certain cases.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I agree that a fetus is human - however as rorix points out, it is justified murder given the state of the baby and the mothers choice based on various factors.

 

[Xayma]

why the big deal with incest?

I think it relies around the fct it is illegala nd has many health issues related to it. I don't necessairly see how it should concern the mother in that case more then the father, most people automatically assume rape.

 

[davin]

in most cases, tehre is very little in the way of health risks related to incest, and i've yet to hear the argument that there should be special provisions to allow rape when either of the participants was under the legal age of concent, either, or any other circumstance where sex would've been illegal.
in fact, actually....i don't think it IS illegal, even, but i'm not sure on it. There's just marriage restrictions.

Point being, there is no health risk to mother or baby, and theres no mental trauma for the mother

 

[Silver Persian]

They are the things out of which humans are grown (aka seeds are not flowers), which haven't developed any faculties that can be regarded as possessing "life", apart from in the same way that my finger is alive.

And the difference between coma patients and foetuses is that coma patients have had experience in the past - by killing them, you are taking something away. Foetuses (I think Im actually talking about the thing that comes before the foetus...embryo?) do not have experience.

*wonders why he is bothering debating with someone who, overall, agrees with him*

 

[GreenPotatoes]

thats a big step

 

[Rorix]

They are the things out of which humans are grown (aka seeds are not flowers), which haven't developed any faculties that can be regarded as possessing "life", apart from in the same way that my finger is alive.

Are you able to cite any scientific sources that support your view that life does not being at conception?

In fact, your defintion of life makes no logical sense. Surely you must agree that life must begin initially, it is not too controversial a statement. However, using your necessary requirement for life of past experience, at that point the 'collection of cells' to paraphrase you HAS NO PRIOR EXPERIENCES therefore IS NOT ALIVE. Unless you somehow allow an experience to be created and remembered when the 'cells' are not alive, which thus gives rise to 'life'. My head is spinning thinking about it.

 

[Silver Persian]

err...lol. That is a good point.

*goes back to dominoes and reconsiders viewpoint on abortion*

 

[withoutaface]

Are you able to cite any scientific sources that support your view that life does not being at conception?

But the onus is on the person who wants to bring in government regulation to prove that it is needed (ie you), so you're unfairly shifting the burden of proof.

 

[Rorix]

RTFT LIBERAL SCUMMMMMM

I'm actually in favour of abortion, I'm just saying that it is murder.

To satisfy you nazi I will cite Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981.

 

[stainmepink]

if you think about it this way, in south dakota from the way things are going, the foetus in the mother's uterus is owned by the state. i stick with what i said before .. women deserve the right to choose. people who are pro life probably think all abortions are linked to "under aged sluts", but the fact is that most abortions take place for women in their early 30s.

 

[HotShot]

but the fact is that most abortions take place for women in their early 30s.

thats sad - mature age women cant take care of themselves. you can always give up your baby for adoption, and i feel the real reason for abortion is that the women want an easy way out. Having child takes on financial responsibilities, time managements and i feel these women want to just skip this, neglect this, take the easy way and as a result have an abortion.

 

[davin]

if you think about it this way, in south dakota from the way things are going, the foetus in the mother's uterus is owned by the state. i stick with what i said before .. women deserve the right to choose. people who are pro life probably think all abortions are linked to "under aged sluts", but the fact is that most abortions take place for women in their early 30s.

the viewpoint more is that, and i think its the state's job to protect lives, including those of the unborn. the criticism of abortion coming from its people being irresponsible (basicly, having sex but not wanting to deal with going through a pregnancy) without age as a factor

 

[crazyhomo]

but the fact is that most abortions take place for women in their early 30s.

except for the part where this is just not true

 

[HotShot]

(AGI) (CDC)
1973 744,600 615,831
1974 898,600 763,476
1975 1,034,200 854,853
1976 1,179,300 988,267
1977 1,316,700 1,079,430
1978 1,409,600 1,157,776
1979 1,497,700 1,251,921
1980 1,553,900 1,297,606
1981 1,577,300 1,300,760
1982 1,573,900 1,303,980
1983 1,575,000 1,268,987
1984 1,577,200 1,333,521
1985 1,588,600 1,328,570
1986 1,574,000 1,328,112
1987 1,559,100 1,353,671
1988 1,590,800 1,371,285
1989 1,566,900 1,396,658
1990 1,608,600 1,429,577
1991 1,556,500 1,388,937
1992 1,528,900 1.359,145
1993 1,500,000 1,330,414
1994 1,431,000 1,267,415
1995 1,363,690 1,210,883
1996 1,365,730 1,221,585
1997 1,365,730 1,186,039
1998 1,365,730 884,273*
1999 1,365,730 861,789*
2000 1,312,990 857,475**
2001 1,303,000& 853,485**
2002 1,293,000&
2003 1,293,000&&
2004 1,293,000&&

wow its increasing even with condoms, and all those pills and stuff.

 

[crazyhomo]

wow its increasing even with condoms, and all those pills and stuff.

what are you talking about? it peaked in 1990 and has been decreasing ever since