A revolutionary working holiday? (1 Viewer)

[loquasagacious]

Stumbled across an interesting law CRIMES (FOREIGN INCURSIONS AND RECRUITMENT) ACT 1978 the basic premise of which is to make it illegal for Australians to engage in revolutionary type activities abroad (or prepare/train/plan/etc for them domestically). Given the time in which the law was passed I daresay that the original intent was to criminalise individuals joining or fomenting communist revolutions.

The act does not apply to enlisting in the armed forces of a foreign power though. However as noted in this submission fighting against Australian forces would be treason and committing terrorist acts even when in the employ of a foreign army is still illegal.

But I'm not that interested in how exactly the laws currently work but in how they should.

Should it be legal for an Australian citizen who is not enlisted in the armed forces of a foreign state to travel abroad and engage in aggression against a foreign state?

 

[murphyad]

Interesting. I guess the moral question is between the liberty of the individual in acting on their beliefs and the desire for the Australian state to prevent such actions from being beyond their jurisdiction simply because of distance (assuming that such acts are also illegal in Australia).

Though really I see any attempt by a state to exert control over citizens beyond its territorial borders as somewhat heavy-handed and the same applies to this law.

 

[JonathanM]

Just to disclaim what I'm about to say: I'm friends with these people but I don't necessarily agree with their choices. Am a patriotic Australian myself.


I have a few friends who went to Israel and joined the army there, this involved actively serving in it, I'm not particularly sure to what extent. They returned to Australia to go to Uni, have decided to stay and have joined the Australian Army Reserves (one of them is now full time army). They told me their experience in the Israeli army helped them get in over other applicants.

 

[katie tully]

Australians are in the French Foreign Legion... Yes?

 

[Iron]

has jaredr signed up with the idf?

 

[loquasagacious]

kt and jonathon the law as it stands does not make it illegal for Australian citizens/residents from enlisting in a the armed forces of a foreign power - it does make it illegal to join a non-state armed force and fight against a state of any kind.

For example it is legal to join the IDF, French Foriegn Legion, Russian Army, Chinese Army, US Army, etc etc etc. However it is illegal to join an insurgency such as the communist insurgencies in India and Nepal, the Kurdish insurgency in Turkey, Palestinian forces, democracy protesters in Iran, the insurgency in Iraq or Afghanistan, etc etc.

 

[yoddle]

Though really I see any attempt by a state to exert control over citizens beyond its territorial borders as somewhat heavy-handed and the same applies to this law.

We still pay taxes, can receive hospital treatment, probably have an Australian family, have to obey Australian law while we're in the country, apply for consular assistance overseas and need visas to stay for long periods in other countries, so I think the state exerting control over us while we're outta the country is quite reasonable while we hold Australian citizenship.

Having said that, I'm not sure I believe in the whole immigration thing and I think it should definitely be legal [being able to help in a foreign revolution].

 

[JonathanM]

kt and jonathon the law as it stands does not make it illegal for Australian citizens/residents from enlisting in a the armed forces of a foreign power - it does make it illegal to join a non-state armed force and fight against a state of any kind.

For example it is legal to join the IDF, French Foriegn Legion, Russian Army, Chinese Army, US Army, etc etc etc. However it is illegal to join an insurgency such as the communist insurgencies in India and Nepal, the Kurdish insurgency in Turkey, Palestinian forces, democracy protesters in Iran, the insurgency in Iraq or Afghanistan, etc etc.

Ah.

No, they're different. Armies have codes of conducts and represent countries which must abide by various international treaties. The insurgency groups, from groups like the Taliban to the Tamil Tigers cannot as effectively be prosecuted if they break these treaties and are, in my opinion, more likely to launch attacks on civilians.

Sure, I'm aware some people will say foreign countries can attack civilians just as easily, but have a look at the media coverage countries like Israel or Russia/Georgia during their conflict got for supposedly attacking civilians compared with the sparse coverage al-Qaeda get for their almost daily attacks.

And then you've got a whole different level, where faggots like David Hicks go and join the insurgency groups which are fighting Australia. But at least there's a law against that, called treason. And it's about time we gave Hicks a fair trial for that. But that's another matter altogether.

 

[JonathanM]

has jaredr signed up with the idf?

Haven't seen him for ages :S

He did allude to actually doing that, but as far as I'm aware, he's still in the middle of his degree at UNSW xD