Results vs Process (2 Viewers)

[[ ]]

I remember three years ago, my math's teacher told me and my class something like "effort without the result is equal to no effort". I didn't like this cruel and result based narrative, but I think that it does make sense. I mean, what is difference of putting the effort into it then you don't get what you want and putting no effort and still don't get into it. If process is more important than the result then why? isn't this just a narrative that is used to comfort yourself to ignore the objective truth that you in the end didn't get what you wanted?

 

[thetestdude]

I think that we should always put in 100% effort regardless of how hard a task is.

At the same time I think it's also important to acknowledge that sometimes in life, some goals may remain unattainable, no matter how much we try. In the end, I think that's what constitutes a healthy human's behaviour.

If we do our best and still fail, we won't regret failing as much as we would regret not trying.

 

[[ ]]

That sounds like a very fine line from "the ends justify the means" which is problematic to say the least. That said if there actually are no results (eg. you dug an empty hole and filled it back up) then it's true but I don't think it would be in most cases since you'd have learnt something at least.

Maybe it's my wording, I meant what's the point getting something you never wanted (the things that you got through the process, through your own effort of course) and don't get something that you actually wanted after putting the efforts?

 

[[ ]]

If we do our best and still fail, we won't regret failing as much as we would regret not trying.

I think if I didn't get the result I wanted after putting 100% effort I probably would've regret not lying down in the bed and just do whatever I feel like and think "Fuck it, screw my life I don't care anymore" throughout the whole process

 

[thetestdude]

I think if I didn't get the result I wanted after putting 100% effort I probably would've regret not lying down in the bed and just do whatever I feel like and think "Fuck it, screw my life I don't care anymore" throughout the whole process

I have experienced this as well, but how would you be able to decide whether you should put in effort or lie down in bed if the outcome of trying isn't really predictable? (i.e. both success and failure are possible).

 

[[ ]]

I have experienced this as well, but how would you be able to decide whether you should put in effort or lie down in bed if the outcome of trying isn't really predictable? (i.e. both success and failure are possible).

No way actually

 

[thetestdude]

No way actually

That's why I think putting in effort may still be worth it.

 

[popjin]

Maybe it's my wording, I meant what's the point getting something you never wanted (the things that you got through the process, through your own effort of course) and don't get something that you actually wanted after putting the efforts?

I'm a bit confused too now. I'm interpreting it in the context of math, where someone puts in a lot of effort but doesn't get the results they want. I think that in this context, putting in effort is still worth it due to the intangible benefits of learning how to study, what works, what doesn't work, and gaining an understanding of the content which can be built upon further to improve.

But I'm assuming results are measured through standarised testing which is flawed, is that what you mean?

 

[[ ]]

I'm a bit confused too now. I'm interpreting it in the context of math, where someone puts in a lot of effort but doesn't get the results they want. I think that in this context, putting in effort is still worth it due to the intangible benefits of learning how to study, what works, what doesn't work, and gaining an understanding of the content which can be built upon further to improve.

But I'm assuming results are measured through standarised testing which is flawed, is that what you mean?

Is the process of putting the effort more important than getting the result that you wanted? If it isn't, what is the difference between putting 0 effort and not getting what you wanted and putting 100% and still not getting what you wanted (This is what the question actually meant)

 

[[ ]]

I'm a bit confused too now. I'm interpreting it in the context of math, where someone puts in a lot of effort but doesn't get the results they want. I think that in this context, putting in effort is still worth it due to the intangible benefits of learning how to study, what works, what doesn't work, and gaining an understanding of the content which can be built upon further to improve.

But I'm assuming results are measured through standarised testing which is flawed, is that what you mean?

What I'm thinking is that what if you don't care if you learnt how to study and know what works and what doesn't work but just the result? What if as long as if you got the result then everything's all good for you? Since you don't care about the things that you've learn't then it essentially it doesn't mean anything to you hence if you didn't get the end result, to you it's like the same that you gained nothing.

 

[popjin]

Is the process of putting the effort more important than getting the result that you wanted? If it isn't, what is the difference between putting 0 effort and not getting what you wanted and putting 100% and still not getting what you wanted (This is what the question actually meant)

Which is more important, the journey or the destination? If you could immediately get everything you wanted with 0 effort, than that thing becomes meaningless because it becomes an end in itself. You assign value to things, and so the importance is arbitrary, you know what I mean?

What I'm thinking is that what if you don't care if you learnt how to study and know what works and what doesn't work but just the result? What if as long as if you got the result then everything's all good for you? Since you don't care about the things that you've learn't then it essentially it doesn't mean anything to you hence if you didn't get the end result, to you it's like the same that you gained nothing.

I think this is simply an issue of short term vs long term gain. For example, ATAR is simply a short term hurdle into uni, it doesn't matter how well you do, how much effort you put in, you simply get the number and pass.

But long term, your HSC actually does have an impact in terms of gains. If you enrolled into a math degree but somehow passed your way through all of your high school math exams without actually putting in effort or understanding, than you're screwing yourself over in the long run, same as cheating. But that's only important because you assigned value to doing that math degree in the end. Basically, I'm interpreting this issue as effort correlating to helping out future you and gains in associated areas, if that makes sense.

Thoughts?

 

[seremify007]

This. Worked thus far for my lifestyle.

 

[[ ]]

This. Worked thus far for my lifestyle.

If I'm interpreting it correctly, it's telling us to do whatever you can to meet your goal right?

 

[seremify007]

If I'm interpreting it correctly, it's telling us to do whatever you can to meet your goal right?

Well the way I've applied it to my own life is if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it properly and as best I can to achieve the objective. If I'm not prepared to give it my all, then it's not something worth doing.

 

[[ ]]

Well the way I've applied it to my own life is if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it properly and as best I can to achieve the objective. If I'm not prepared to give it my all, then it's not something worth doing.

Hmm that's a nice life philosophy

 

[[ ]]

Which is more important, the journey or the destination? If you could immediately get everything you wanted with 0 effort, than that thing becomes meaningless because it becomes an end in itself. You assign value to things, and so the importance is arbitrary, you know what I mean?

I want to know what do you mean by "it becomes an end in itself"? (Sorry but I can't decide how should I understand this phrase under your narrative you provided after the journey or destination question)

[/QUOTE]
I think this is simply an issue of short term vs long term gain. For example, ATAR is simply a short term hurdle into uni, it doesn't matter how well you do, how much effort you put in, you simply get the number and pass.

But long term, your HSC actually does have an impact in terms of gains. If you enrolled into a math degree but somehow passed your way through all of your high school math exams without actually putting in effort or understanding, than you're screwing yourself over in the long run, same as cheating. But that's only important because you assigned value to doing that math degree in the end. Basically, I'm interpreting this issue as effort correlating to helping out future you and gains in associated areas, if that makes sense.

Thoughts?
[/QUOTE]

I think that if I cared about the long term effect of the HSC and take the things that I have learnt as one of the aim of me doing the HSC I wouldn't be, say like, despaired even if I didn't get the ATAR I wanted, in this case I believe that you can categorise that "gaining the long term effects of the HSC" as part of the "result". However, that is only if me cared about the long term effects. If I never cared about these gains, it has no (subjective) value to me.

 

[[ ]]

Which is more important, the journey or the destination? If you could immediately get everything you wanted with 0 effort, than that thing becomes meaningless because it becomes an end in itself. You assign value to things, and so the importance is arbitrary, you know what I mean?



I think this is simply an issue of short term vs long term gain. For example, ATAR is simply a short term hurdle into uni, it doesn't matter how well you do, how much effort you put in, you simply get the number and pass.

But long term, your HSC actually does have an impact in terms of gains. If you enrolled into a math degree but somehow passed your way through all of your high school math exams without actually putting in effort or understanding, than you're screwing yourself over in the long run, same as cheating. But that's only important because you assigned value to doing that math degree in the end. Basically, I'm interpreting this issue as effort correlating to helping out future you and gains in associated areas, if that makes sense.

Thoughts?

I want to know what do you mean by "it becomes an end in itself"? (Sorry but I can't decide how should I understand this phrase under your narrative you provided after the journey or destination question)

I think that if I cared about the long term effect of the HSC and take the things that I have learnt as one of the aim of me doing the HSC I wouldn't be, say like, despaired even if I didn't get the ATAR I wanted, in this case I believe that you can categorise that "gaining the long term effects of the HSC" as part of the "result". However, that is only if me cared about the long term effects. If I never cared about these gains, it has no (subjective) value to me.

 

[seremify007]

I think it's all about whether you value the actual learnings / improving your understanding of the world around you, as opposed to being solely focused on the measurable output of ATAR.

 

[[ ]]

I think it's all about whether you value the actual learnings / improving your understanding of the world around you, as opposed to being solely focused on the measurable output of ATAR.

So it depends on yourself

 

[SylviaB]

maybe if you spent more time studying and less time jerking off to chinese cartoons, you would be successful