Forced to drop to Standard by School (3 Viewers)

[pikachu975]

yeah but the thing is you need to put in way too much effort in order to do well in standard as I had reiterated multiple times already it is hard to get a band 6 for english standard as less than 1% of the state get a band 6 for english standard

I agree. Also a subject choice could make a difference in getting a better ATAR e.g. 100 in 3U maths vs 95 in 4U maths, what is better? Teachers assume all this rubbish from the top of their heads and don't realise that prelim is a testing year where you learn from your mistakes and prepare for the HSC, not a year to do a course and think that if you're doing bad, your never ever allowed to do the subject ever

You can't talk about effort or else no one would do 4 unit because it requires so much time and study for 2 units but people still do it.

Also english prelim is important because it's practically the same thing but with different texts and different assessments, possibly a speech. In our exams they gave us an hour to write essays and creatives to see our full potentiial to see who to drop anyway.

And I'm pretty sure a "warning" isn't required, I'm certain that EVERYONE knows that you can get dropped from any subject in year 11 and if not they probably just don't care about getting dropped.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Also if someone has the potential to improve and get a band 6 in advanced they should band 6 in standard too. And also schools don't care about an individual student, they care about the whole cohort. They would rather have the whole cohort do well rather than one guy drag them down because they didn't kick them out because it's unfair for the cohort if one guy brings down all their effort.

Yeah true. Thing is if they want the cohort to do well as a whole rather than let a desperate student doing the course drag down the cohort average, then the should actually have an interview with that one guy on why he should do english advanced and what he would do in order to no drag down the cohort average, and actually get the cohort to work as a whole so there can be a fairer distribution of marks (but ensure the person not performing well in advanced is actually putting in time and effort in the subject so he/she doesn't drag the cohort down)

Getting a band 6 in standard is hard as less than 1% of the state get a band 6. Even at my school, out of 4 people who take their learning seriously (out of a standard cohort of 50), I can see only 1 getting a band 6

 

[eyeseeyou]

You can't talk about effort or else no one would do 4 unit because it requires so much time and study for 2 units but people still do it.

Also english prelim is important because it's practically the same thing but with different texts and different assessments, possibly a speech. In our exams they gave us an hour to write essays and creatives to see our full potentiial to see who to drop anyway.

And I'm pretty sure a "warning" isn't required, I'm certain that EVERYONE knows that you can get dropped from any subject in year 11 and if not they probably just don't care about getting dropped.

Yeah kinda but the thing is people still aren't used to writing at a high standard and by the end of the prelim course people start to realise that they needed to write to a senior standard as opposed to a year 10 standard (for some people and how we continue to write at a year 10 standard when supposed to be writing to a year 11/12 standard)

 

[pikachu975]

Yeah kinda but the thing is people still aren't used to writing at a high standard and by the end of the prelim course people start to realise that they needed to write to a senior standard as opposed to a year 10 standard (for some people and how we continue to write at a year 10 standard when supposed to be writing to a year 11/12 standard)

You can't just go "oh I'm in year 12 time to write at a senior standard" and then go write really good and improve 100 ranks it doesn't work like that

 

[eyeseeyou]

You can't just go "oh I'm in year 12 time to write at a senior standard" and then go write really good and improve 100 ranks it doesn't work like that

But people aren't used to writing at that sort of standard in yr 11

Also for English standard, I'm sure you'll need to write to that standard as well

 

[pikachu975]

But people aren't used to writing at that sort of standard in yr 11

Also for English standard, I'm sure you'll need to write to that standard as well

Well they obviously didn't improve their standard of writing throughout the year because if they did they wouldn't have been dropped

 

[KingOfActing]

Can I just say, even if you get 0 in English Standard (which I would say is practically impossible because of scaling) a 90+ ATAR is still achievable (albeit difficult).

0 in Eng. Standard, 98 in MX1, 96 in MX2, 95 in Chem and 95 in bio is enough to get an ATAR of ~92. Now assuming you actually write something down on the paper and say, get 50 in English Standard, the ATAR goes up to ~95. A 50 in Advanced instead would make it 96. Now let's say you actually tried in Standard and got 75 - that's an ATAR of 97.

Getting a 75 in Standard isn't hard, and you don't have to spend a lot of time on it. That leaves heaps of extra time to spend on your other subjects to smash them.

I know I'm talking about edge-cases, but saying Standard makes it harder to get a good ATAR is misleading - the difference it makes is negligible. The approximate ATAR difference between equal marks in Standard and Advanced is 0.7 if your ATAR lies in the 90+ range.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Well they obviously didn't improve their standard of writing throughout the year because if they did they wouldn't have been dropped

For some it takes a while to doing so

 

[pikachu975]

Can I just say, even if you get 0 in English Standard (which I would say is practically impossible because of scaling) a 90+ ATAR is still achievable (albeit difficult).

0 in Eng. Standard, 98 in MX1, 96 in MX2, 95 in Chem and 95 in bio is enough to get an ATAR of ~92. Now assuming you actually write something down on the paper and say, get 50 in English Standard, the ATAR goes up to ~95. A 50 in Advanced instead would make it 96. Now let's say you actually tried in Standard and got 75 - that's an ATAR of 97.

Getting a 75 in Standard isn't hard, and you don't have to spend a lot of time on it. That leaves heaps of extra time to spend on your other subjects to smash them.

I know I'm talking about edge-cases, but saying Standard makes it harder to get a good ATAR is misleading - the difference it makes is negligible. The approximate ATAR difference between equal marks in Standard and Advanced is 0.7 if your ATAR lies in the 90+ range.

Yeah early in the year the teachers were telling us that it doesn't make much of a difference to your ATAR so they were telling us to drop if we were struggling for the benefit of our ATAR

 

[eyeseeyou]

Can I just say, even if you get 0 in English Standard (which I would say is practically impossible because of scaling) a 90+ ATAR is still achievable (albeit difficult).

0 in Eng. Standard, 98 in MX1, 96 in MX2, 95 in Chem and 95 in bio is enough to get an ATAR of ~92. Now assuming you actually write something down on the paper and say, get 50 in English Standard, the ATAR goes up to ~95. A 50 in Advanced instead would make it 96. Now let's say you actually tried in Standard and got 75 - that's an ATAR of 97.

Getting a 75 in Standard isn't hard, and you don't have to spend a lot of time on it. That leaves heaps of extra time to spend on your other subjects to smash them.

I know I'm talking about edge-cases, but saying Standard makes it harder to get a good ATAR is misleading - the difference it makes is negligible. The approximate ATAR difference between equal marks in Standard and Advanced is 0.7 if your ATAR lies in the 90+ range.

A majority of english standard candidates get a band 3-4

There's not much difference between scaling in advanced and standard (if you get band 6 for either)

It kinda does make it harder to get a good ATAR (but again it depends on what you're aiming for). Thing is getting a band 6 (like I've said many times) in standard is difficult as less than 1% of the state can get a band 6. People would say if you can get a band 6 in advanced, you can get a band 6 in standard, which I find semi misleading as you can look at the canditure who take english seriously and yet only a minor proportion get a band 6 out of those handful who take it seriously (i.e. when I mentioned that at my school 4 ppl take standard english seriously but I'm predicting only 1 band 6 for standard for my grade)

 

[pikachu975]

A majority of english standard candidates get a band 3-4

There's not much difference between scaling in advanced and standard (if you get band 6 for either)

It kinda does make it harder to get a good ATAR (but again it depends on what you're aiming for). Thing is getting a band 6 (like I've said many times) in standard is difficult as less than 1% of the state can get a band 6. People would say if you can get a band 6 in advanced, you can get a band 6 in standard, which I find semi misleading as you can look at the canditure who take english seriously and yet only a minor proportion get a band 6 out of those handful who take it seriously (i.e. when I mentioned that at my school 4 ppl take standard english seriously but I'm predicting only 1 band 6 for standard for my grade)

lol stop comparing how many people in the state get a band 6, by doing that you can say 4 unit is easier than 2 unit maths but it isn't

 

[eyeseeyou]

lol stop comparing how many people in the state get a band 6, by doing that you can say 4 unit is easier than 2 unit maths but it isn't

Ofc 4U is not easier than 2U, a majority of top maths students do 4U, but even though a majority of top english students do advanced and a minority do standard, it's still worth comparing as their band 6 percentage rate has a major difference

How would you even know that if you get a band 6 for advanced you can get 1 for standard, even teachers at my school say it's difficult

I'll ask the BOSTES or UAC as to why the band 6 percentage rate for english standard is very low so then we can dispel our myths lol

 

[KingOfActing]

A majority of english standard candidates get a band 3-4

There's not much difference between scaling in advanced and standard (if you get band 6 for either)

It kinda does make it harder to get a good ATAR (but again it depends on what you're aiming for). Thing is getting a band 6 (like I've said many times) in standard is difficult as less than 1% of the state can get a band 6. People would say if you can get a band 6 in advanced, you can get a band 6 in standard, which I find semi misleading as you can look at the canditure who take english seriously and yet only a minor proportion get a band 6 out of those handful who take it seriously (i.e. when I mentioned that at my school 4 ppl take standard english seriously but I'm predicting only 1 band 6 for standard for my grade)

A band 6 in Adv is around 79 raw. A band 6 in standard is about 85 raw. Now take into account the fact that standard is easier than advanced. What does that tell you?

 

[pikachu975]

Ofc 4U is not easier than 2U

How would you even know that if you get a band 6 for advanced you can get 1 for standard, even teachers at my school say it's difficult

I'll ask the BOSTES or UAC as to why the band 6 percentage rate for english standard is very low so then we can dispel our myths lol

It's because they force the whole state to do english and so many people aren't good at it. If you put EVERY general maths and 2 unit person to do 4 unit the percentage wouldn't be 30% anymore.

 

[eyeseeyou]

A band 6 in Adv is around 79 raw. A band 6 in standard is about 85 raw. Now take into account the fact that standard is easier than advanced. What does that tell you?

It's only a little bit easier than Advanced

If you think about it, writing to a high standard is required for both advanced and standard and the difficulty of the texts aren't that much different

(I've said this so many times already) Out of 4 ppl who take standard seriously at school, I'm predicting 1 will get a band 6

 

[eyeseeyou]

It's because they force the whole state to do english and so many people aren't good at it. If you put EVERY general maths and 2 unit person to do 4 unit the percentage wouldn't be 30% anymore.

Thing is either advanced or standard is compulsory and you get to choose between the 2, but most people in NSW end up choosing standard rather than advanced

 

[eyeseeyou]

I just realised but if they got rid of all this "one student dragging down the whole cohort average thing" then would the scaling of subjects (e.g. scaling of 3U maths) be taken into account when calculating ATAR?

 

[pikachu975]

I just realised but if they got rid of all this "one student dragging down the whole cohort average thing" then would the scaling of subjects (e.g. scaling of 3U maths) be taken into account when calculating ATAR?

They add up all the marks besides the highest and lowest then distribute them, that's why they need to drop people because they'll contribute nothing to the pool of marks. And also people don't usually "choose" standard, they do it because they didn't make it into advanced or got DROPPED from advanced but some still do choose it.

 

[KingOfActing]

I just realised but if they got rid of all this "one student dragging down the whole cohort average thing" then would the scaling of subjects (e.g. scaling of 3U maths) be taken into account when calculating ATAR?

One student doesn't drag down the cohort.

If the bottom mark is sufficiently lower than the rest of the cohort (the difference between the lowest mark and an extrapolated lowest mark > 7.5 marks per unit), then it is excluded from moderation of internal marks.

Besides, I think you're confusing the way marks work - every student achieves a raw external mark. That mark gets linearly shifted to an aligned mark, when markers decide what marks are equivalent to borderline 'bands'. Then internal marks are decided through a process called moderation that fills certain criteria (like the one I mentioned above). The aligned external mark is averaged with the internal moderated mark to obtain the 'HSC Mark'. UAC takes these HSC marks and compares entire cohorts of each subject to each other by assessing relative averages, means and standard deviations of students taking each course. This process is called "scaling" and is iterated a large amount of times.

Think of scaling this way - the average marks of all students taking 3u maths are averaged, excluding their actual 3u marks. The same thing happens for students taking General Maths or something. Whichever subject has the highest average of averages, will end up scaling higher, as it is indicative of that group of students being better overall in their subjects. Of course, this is an oversimplification, and there's a bunch of other specifications, but long story short a 80 HSC mark in 3U is going to be better than a 80 HSC mark in General maths. These HSC marks are converted into scaled marks which are added up for a total out of 500 (100 from English, 400 from other top 8 units) called the aggregate. Students are ordered by their aggregate mark - their ATAR is equivalent to the percentile of their aggregate.

 

[Bluee]

News flash I survive the purge and remain in Advanced!

This week when I came back I realised heaps of people and their parents called and emailed the school about this. They had a meeting with everyone yesterday who got a letter sent home because they got less than 70, which was alot of people like around 60 to 70 people.

The Head Teacher said if we want to remain in Advanced we have to do well in the 3 Assesments coming up or otherwise she will 'actually' move us down for next year. Don't know if that can happen anymore or its just a plain threat?

Besides that been working really like I am I mean seriously hard in English. Been lately practicing hard my literally techniques and fixing my creative.