• Best of luck to the class of 2024 for their HSC exams. You got this!
    Let us know your thoughts on the HSC exams here
  • YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
MedVision ad

Universities to blame for the maths crisis among high school students (1 Viewer)

b0b101

Pharaoh
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
140
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
http://www.afr.com/leadership/unive...is-among-high-school-students-20160128-gmg3xp

--- Copy and Pasted because others don't have afr subs ---
Universities have been blamed for the maths crisis in high schools after they cut the maths prerequisite for many university courses, sending the message that maths was not important.

Professor Geoff Prince, director of the Australian Mathematical Sciences Institute said the rot set in 20 years ago when universities began easing the compulsory maths prerequisite for students entering university. He said it began with engineering.

Already, at that time, the proportion of students doing advanced maths in year 12 was falling and engineering deans at top universities were concerned that the the pool of high-performing school students who were eligible to apply for engineering courses, was shrinking.

The deans knew that if they continued to insist on advanced maths as a prerequisite for students entering engineering, then the entry standards would fall and their courses would lose prestige, he said.

"Especially at the Group of Eight [universities] that was something the deans couldn't do. So they dropped the advance maths prerequisites and used the intermediate maths prerequisite instead," Professor Prince said.

"That way they opened up to a much bigger cohort of students and in some cases, could actually raise the entry scores."

But what was the result?

"Within a pretty short time almost all advanced maths prerequisites had been removed for engineering degrees," he said. .

CATCH-UP COURSES

That meant students could enter an engineering course with little or no mathematical knowledge and rely on catch-up courses to understand the material.

With the dam breached, other faculties which taught subjects based on mathematics followed suit. In the late 1990s universities began to drop the maths prerequisite for science degrees. Then most universities required students enrolling in science to have done intermediate maths in year 12. But soon, most of them removed the maths prerequisite for science altogether.

In a study last year AMSI found only 14 per cent of Australian universities required science students to have studied maths to intermediate level in year 12. Only 13 per cent of universities required the same of commerce students. The picture was better for engineering, with 41 per cent of universities requiring intermediate year-12 maths to enter an engineering degree, but AMSI could not find any Australian university which continued to require advanced year-12 maths to enrol in engineering.

Because of that students were suffering. Professor Prince said university studies had shown students who did not have sound knowledge of calculus (gained in advance year-12 maths) struggled in a science or engineering degree.

"They are failing at a much higher rate than those who do," he said.

"Universities need to let everyone know that if you do go into a science degree without calculus-based mathematics, you are at a considerable risk of failure."

PRESSURE TO CHANGE

Even though universities lowered their maths entry standards well over a decade ago it is only now - as awareness dawns that the highest paid jobs in the future will be in STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) - that universities are coming under pressure to change.

Incoming chief scientist Alan Finkel, who has a strong record as a technology entrepreneur, said in an article published by AMSI last year, that mathematics and physics were "the essential nutrition and language of science and engineering".

He said it represented "a market failure" that most universities had dropped maths prerequisites for engineering and science.

"The fact that prerequisites in mathematics and physics are rarely imposed is related to overstretched university finances, necessitating a competitive approach to recruiting students," he wrote in AMSI's newsletter The Update. He said government intervention was likely the only way to fix the problem.

One consequence of universities lowering their maths entrance requirements was that students had even less reason to study maths in senior high school, and participation in both advanced maths and intermediate maths continued to fall. In 2005 22.7 per cent of year-12 students around Australia took intermediate maths. That was down to 19.3 per cent by 2014, and the proportion studying advanced maths fell from 11.2 per cent in 2005 to 10.0 per cent in 2014.

The picture is worse for girls than boys with 18.2 per cent of girls studying intermediate maths and only 6.8 per cent of girls studying advanced maths in year 12 in 2014.

MESSAGE TO STUDENTS

Universities were sending students the message that maths was not important, Professor Prince said. And now there was a severe shortage of qualified high-school maths teachers with 40 per cent of year-7 to year-10 maths classes being taught by teachers not qualified in maths.

Professor Prince said the shortage affected middle and lower socio economic schools more than those in wealthier suburbs. But while higher income students were better served with maths teachers, it was not them who generally chose teaching as a profession. It meant the next generation of teachers was coming from high schools where there was a maths teacher shortage.

"In that demographic there's an enormous amount of out-of-field teaching in maths, and advanced maths is not offered in many schools. It's an insidious impact," Professor Prince.said.

---End of article ---
It be interesting to hear some discussion on this considering USYD is making 2 unit mandatory for everyone doing a maths related degree eg comm, engineering etc
 

b0b101

Pharaoh
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
140
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
Here's the sydney article:http://www.afr.com/news/policy/educ...ey-uni-takes-a-stand-on-maths-20160129-gmh44i
Sydney University takes a stand on math
The University of Sydney will lead the attack on declining standards and falling enrolments in maths by requiring students in a range of courses, including science, engineering, commerce and IT, to have passed maths, at minimum of intermediate level, in year 12.

Tyrone Carlin, the university's deputy vice-chancellor (registrar), said the new policy will apply to students starting bachelor degrees from 2019 so that students currently in year 10 can choose their year 11 and 12 subjects with full knowledge of the new rules.

Professor Carlin said the move would lift academic standards at the University of Sydney, which had suffered due to students' poor maths skills.

"The data we have is pretty emphatic: there is a very measurable difference in academic success, in programs with a quantitative element, between students who have two-unit Mathematics [in year 12] and those who don't," he said.

Currently no universities in NSW require students to have studied year 12 maths to enrol in a maths-related bachelor degree. Nationwide, a minority of universities have maths prerequisites for such courses.

According to the Australian Mathematical Sciences Institute, 41 per cent of Australian universities require maths at an intermediate level in year 12 to enrol in engineering, while only 14 per cent require it for science and 13 per cent for commerce.

Professor Carlin said that from 2019 students will need to have passed the NSW Higher School Certificate (HSC) two-unit Mathematics subject to enrol in any engineering or IT bachelor degree, nearly all science bachelor degrees, and bachelor degrees in economics, commerce, pharmacy and veterinary science.

The new policy was decided by the university's academic board in December.

The decision makes the University of Sydney the first to move against the trend – which started in Australian universities two decades ago as a ploy to boost enrolments – of lowering the standard of maths prerequisite subjects needed to study maths-related bachelor degrees.

'ASSUMED KNOWLEDGE'

Currently in NSW most universities list maths as "assumed knowledge" for maths-related degrees and offer bridging courses for students who don't make the standard.

The director of the Australian Mathematical Sciences Institute, Geoff Prince, who has campaigned strongly for maths prerequisites for university, praised the decision.

"It's very pleasing that the University of Sydney is taking the lead in NSW where 'assumed knowledge' is almost universal and by far the worst in the country. I urge the other NSW universities to immediately follow with prerequisites from 2019," Professor Prince said.

Professor Carlin acknowledged that the lack of maths prerequisites at universities had contributed to the move away from higher-level maths in senior school as students chose the lower-level general maths subject, or no maths at all, in the hope of gaining a better ATAR (Australian tertiary admission rank) score.

"We are very concerned about reports, which we have heard over and over again, about schools pushing able students into general maths," he said.

In the past 20 years the proportion of Australian students studying intermediate maths in year 12 has fallen from about 27 per cent to 19 per cent, and the number studying advanced maths (which builds on intermediate) has fallen from about 14 per cent to 10 per cent.

Professor Carlin said it was particularly concerning that female students were moving away from higher-level maths.

He said the university knew it was taking a risk in raising maths standards because it could lead to fewer enrolments unless the number of students studying the higher levels of maths in year 12 started to increase.

"If we don't see a commensurate response we are limiting the pool of eligible students," he said.

He said the university would spread word of the change to students, schools and the community. "We are very hopeful the message will be received."
 

InteGrand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
6,109
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Just to clarify, for NSW, "intermediate" maths as mentioned by the article would be HSC 2U Maths, right? And would the "advanced maths" that the article refers to be HSC Maths Extension 1 and 2?
 

Ununoctium

Che barba
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
247
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
I think they should remove assumed knowledge and just make it compulsory to either pass 2 unit Mathematics OR to do a bridging course (bridging courses are currently optional in NSW Universities). They employ this method in Victoria.
 

Trebla

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
8,384
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
There is a missing important statistic in all of this.

How many of the existing post-HSC students actually enrolled in science, commerce or engineering have done 2 unit Maths or higher?
 
Last edited:

BLIT2014

The pessimistic optimist.
Moderator
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
11,591
Location
l'appel du vide
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
I think they should remove assumed knowledge and just make it compulsory to either pass 2 unit Mathematics OR to do a bridging course (bridging courses are currently optional in NSW Universities). They employ this method in Victoria.
We'd need to get Schools onboard and stop forcing kids to drop to general mathematics.
 

Flop21

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
2,807
Gender
Female
HSC
2015
I don't believe it's the unis at all. In fact I think placing required subjects would be bad, I want more options not less.

It's entirely on the schools and student's peers I think.
 

tywebb

dangerman
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Messages
2,166
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
There is a missing important statistic in all of this.

How many of the existing post-HSC students actually enrolled in science, commerce or engineering have done 2 unit Maths or higher?
I don't have the data. But I can tell you who do. It has been presented in several conferences in the past, one of which I attended, the MERGA conference in 2014.

Here is the conference proceedings from another conference where the same thing was presented: http://openjournals.library.usyd.edu.au/index.php/IISME/article/download/7767/8093
 

Kolmias

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
1,510
Gender
Male
HSC
2018
We'd need to get Schools onboard and stop forcing kids to drop to general mathematics.
This. The primary perpetrators of this 'maths crisis' are in fact the schools.
 

Drongoski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,255
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Just to clarify, for NSW, "intermediate" maths as mentioned by the article would be HSC 2U Maths, right? And would the "advanced maths" that the article refers to be HSC Maths Extension 1 and 2?
I recall reading many reports referring to intermediate and advanced maths and it is not clear what are being referred to. It does not help that the NSW HSC 2U is often referred to as Advanced Maths!
 
Last edited:

InteGrand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
6,109
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
I recall reading many reports referring to intermediate and advanced maths and it is not clear what are being referred to. It does not help that the NSW HSC 2U is often referred to as Advanced Maths!
Why is NSW HSC 2U maths often referred to as Advanced Maths? It's not that 'advanced'. Is it simply to distinguish it from HSC General Maths?
 

Flop21

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
2,807
Gender
Female
HSC
2015
Why is NSW HSC 2U maths often referred to as Advanced Maths? It's not that 'advanced'. Is it simply to distinguish it from HSC General Maths?
Because that's the image in a lot of schools.

Most of my old high school did general, and you only did 2u if you were 'advanced' or really good at math. And do to MX1/2 you'd have to be ridiculously smart.


But then I saw at the selective school I sat my exams at, most kids did 2u and 1/3 did MX1/2. It's a bit mind blowing.

But really makes you think, yes 2u is really should be considered the baseline math. With general being basic (those not needing math in uni e.g.).
 

InteGrand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
6,109
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Because that's the image in a lot of schools.

Most of my old high school did general, and you only did 2u if you were 'advanced' or really good at math. And do to MX1/2 you'd have to be ridiculously smart.


But then I saw at the selective school I sat my exams at, most kids did 2u and 1/3 did MX1/2. It's a bit mind blowing.

But really makes you think, yes 2u is really should be considered the baseline math. With general being basic (those not needing math in uni e.g.).
But HSC 3U/4U maths never seems to be referred to as 'advanced'. I think the reason for this is that they have names like 'Maths Ext. 1/2', which make them easily identifiable, whereas 2U maths is officially called Mathematics, which makes it ambiguous as to what level of maths it is. So 2U is often called something else ('advanced') to help it be more identifiable. (And the reason why the name 'advanced' was chosen could be what you said.)
 
Last edited:

Trebla

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
8,384
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Why is NSW HSC 2U maths often referred to as Advanced Maths? It's not that 'advanced'. Is it simply to distinguish it from HSC General Maths?
It's basically to denote the similarities to the way English is structured (i.e. English Advanced).
 

BLIT2014

The pessimistic optimist.
Moderator
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
11,591
Location
l'appel du vide
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
They should just scrape general maths all together
What about those people planning to go to TAFE/join full time work after year 12, and want to do some level of mathematics in years 11/12 but "Mathematics" (Advanced) is too difficult for them.
 

davidgoes4wce

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
1,877
Location
Sydney, New South Wales
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
They should just scrape general maths all together
Having tutored a number of students taking General Maths, the one thing all 3 of those students that I regularly tutored this year, is they value the importance of maths.(even though they admit they aren't the sharpest at this subject) When you think about its everywhere, in everything that applies in life etc (bill utilities, money, travelling costs, student loans, starting up a business, employment pay, gambling, investing in stock markets etc) . This is also my opinion but it seems like the gap between Mathematics (Standard), Mathematics Extension 1, Mathematics Extension 2 and General Maths, there is a fairly large jump from one to the other, more specifically from 'General' to 'Maths (Standard)'. This might be another suggestion but they could have a maths lower than 'General'? As I have encountered students that have struggled with General alone and make it a compulsory subject like they have for English.

Having said that, if I had the option of being better at either Maths or English, without a doubt I'd prefer to have been better at the English in high school. (I was more forced into doing the science/maths) I worked pretty hard in getting my English to be a better level during the last 5 years but its such a deep language, that you can never stop learning. I enjoy all readings: poetry, novels, expository, feature articles, drama, newsapapers etc. My level of writing has gradually improved but if I have a weakness its in the creative writing/narrative writing area.( I don't think its something that you can pick up in a quick span of time.......that creativity needs to be picked up at a younger age. I guess this too could apply to maths and why the foundations need to be built at an earlier age.)
 
Last edited:

sida1049

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
926
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
This might be another suggestion but they could have a maths lower than 'General'? As I have encountered students that have struggled with General alone and make it a compulsory subject like they have for English.
Most of the mathematics used in everyday life is just computation/arithmetic. Mathematics General caters to this aspect. For this reason, calculus, a highly applicable and resourceful branch of mathematics, is omitted from the course. The problem with this is that many of the popular courses in university (e.g. science, engineering, commerce, et cetera) require a basic understanding of calculus. Sure, there are bridging courses, but a staff member of USYD's Science faculty mentioned that the failure rate was as high as 70-75%. Introducing an even more basic mathematics course would encourage students to stray further and further from knowing the mathematics they need to know to thrive in the course they want. I think at least introducing the very basic idea of differential calculus into Mathematics General would be a sensible option. (Either that or to remove the course completely, which I guess would have the repercussion of polarising students based on their level of maths.)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top