• Congratulations to the Class of 2024 on your results!
    Let us know how you went here
    Got a question about your uni preferences? Ask us here

Graph question (2 Viewers)

BlueGas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,448
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Can someone explain the answers for both parts of the question please?

 

psyc1011

#truth
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
174
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
(i) Increasing.

The sign of the derivative shows when the curve is increasing (>0) or decreasing (<0) because derivative is the gradient function. i.e. input a point and it outputs the gradient at the point to the curve or gradient of tangent.

Increasing: gradient always positive so curve is always rising.
Decreasing: gradient always negative so curve is always falling.

As you can see in the graph, f' is always positive, so gradient is always positive from x = 0 to x = infinity. Looks like it has a horizontal asymptote at y = 0 hence will never go below 0. So f is increasing.


(ii) Concave down.

The sign of the second derivative shows when curve is concave up or concave down. It is also the gradient function of f'.

Concave up: like a frown. Rise up then stop at stationary point, then fall down.
Concave down: like a smile. Fall down then stop at stationary point, then rise up.

From graph, f' always has negative gradient so we say f'' < 0 for all real x. Hence f'' is concave down.
 
Last edited:

keepLooking

Active Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
477
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
i) By inspecting the f'(x) graph, you know that in the domain, f'(x) is always > 0, hence you know f(x) is increasing throughout its domain.

EDIT: psyc1011 has a better answer above ;D
 

BlueGas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,448
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
(i) Increasing.

The sign of the derivative shows when the curve is increasing (>0) or decreasing (<0) because derivative is the gradient function. i.e. input a point and it outputs the gradient at the point to the curve or gradient of tangent.

As you can see in the graph, f' is always positive, so gradient is always positive from x = 0 to x = infinity. Looks like it has a horizontal asymptote at y = 0 hence will never go below 0. So f is increasing.

(ii) Concave down.

The sign of the second derivative shows when curve is concave up or concave down. It is also the gradient function of f'.

From graph, f' always has negative gradient so we say f'' < 0 for all real x. Hence f'' is concave down.
This is the part the confuses me. I've seen these types of graphs before and I know the the graph will never touch the x-axis, even though the curve is going down it'll never touch the x-axis so how is f(x) increasing?
 

psyc1011

#truth
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
174
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
This is the part the confuses me. I've seen these types of graphs before and I know the the graph will never touch the x-axis, even though the curve is going down it'll never touch the x-axis so how is f(x) increasing?
The graph displayed is f'(x), the gradient function. Assuming that it has a horizontal asymptote at y = 0, then it never touches the x-axis. That means f'(x) > 0, so always positive! Doesnt matter if the f' graph is swirling/jumping crazily as long as it is > 0 for all real x.

Positive gradient means it will always rise up and never fall down. i.e. increasing
 
Last edited:

psyc1011

#truth
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
174
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
By inspecting the curve, the gradient function (f') itself is decreasing (starts off with high gradient then lowers down near 0), so we can say f is increasing at a decreasing rate.

Example values,

x = 0.01, y' = 100
x = 0.2, y' = 5
x = 5, y' = 0.2
x = 100, y' = 0.01

Since y' is clearly decreasing and always positive, then y' is increasing at a decreasing rate
 

BlueGas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,448
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
The f'(x) is going down so it is increasing a decreasing rate
Yeah that's a much better way to word it, because the graph is actually increasing but the numbers get smaller, that's what confused me, so how about the second part, if it's basically a "bowl" shape it's always concave down and if it's a "hill" shape then it's concave up? Is it always like this?
 

BlueGas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,448
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
How about if a question was referring to y = x^3, when f'(x) = 3x^2, so looking at the graph 3x^2 it seems that it's increasing so the curve must be increasing too? But when looking at x^3 it doesn't seem like it's increasing.
 

psyc1011

#truth
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
174
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
Yeah that's a much better way to word it, because the graph is actually increasing but the numbers get smaller, that's what confused me, so how about the second part, if it's basically a "bowl" shape it's always concave down and if it's a "hill" shape then it's concave up? Is it always like this?
Yes, always. But with respect to f(x), not f'(x).
 

psyc1011

#truth
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
174
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
How about if a question was referring to y = x^3, when f'(x) = 3x^2, so looking at the graph 3x^2 it seems that it's increasing so the curve must be increasing too? But when looking at x^3 it doesn't seem like it's increasing.
If f' is increasing, then f is increasing is a logical error because that is the incorrect relation. f' can be negative, hence f is not always increasing.

Example, y = x^2 and y' = 2x. y' is increasing on all x but y isn't increasing on all x.

As for f(x) = x^3,

f' is not increasing. It is decreasing from -inf to 0 then increases from 0 to +inf.

f' is positive for all real x hence f is increasing for all real x.

Look at y = x^3 and check it's gradient at all points. Just draw tangents at all points on the graph. Do you see that all the tangents have a positive gradient? Hence, increasing for all x.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)

Top