Paris Terror Attack (2 Viewers)

[nerdasdasd]

Once again condemnation of the attack. Any loss of lives, is BAD.

But wanted to raise a point about this outpouring of 'attack on freedom and liberty' with the cartoonists killed.

Firstly, it neccessary to recognise that France is NOT a country that abides by 'freedom and liberty' for all. The banning of the religious clothing (Burqa/Hijab, Sikh Turban, etc) is an example. There can't always be these double standards which the West is notorious for using.

Also there is a difference between hate speech (or drawings in this case) and freedom of expression. An act which sets out to purposely degrade a specific community by portrayig extremely highly regarded figures (like the Prophet Muhummad) in an absolute deplorable way, knowing that it could cause unnecessary turmoil in the community and cause harm, is hate.

Imagine if a cartoonist drew obscene drawings of your mother, who died (lets say of cancer). Your mother holds a special place in your heart, and you would do anything for her honour. You tell the cartoonist to stop drawing these drawings, as its unnecessary and that your mother is the most precious 'thing' to you. The cartoonist basically tells you to fuck off and says he can continue, under the pretext of 'freedom of speech'. You raise the point, that this not freedom of speech rather hate speech, but he dismisses you and continues drawing.... How would you feel?

Muslims regard the Prophet Muhummad as equally, if not greater, than their mother.

I do realise that. But why would extremist muslims kill people over some touchy cartoon?

Also, why is it that people that criticise Islam, often get threatened and fear retribution?

Is that not an over the top reaction from the islams?

I say this because over the years, it does seem as Islam is the religion that people fear most to criticise.

(I'm not hating against islam or anything)

*****

Interesting read.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2005/may/17/religion.immigration

"She arrived in the Netherlands as an asylum seeker and became a fiery critic of both multiculturalism and her own religion, Islam."

"She has recently emerged from a period of deep hiding, following the ritualised killing in November of her collaborator, the film director Theo van Gogh. But she still lives under a strict security regime. "

 

[SylviaB]

Firstly, it neccessary to recognise that France is NOT a country that abides by 'freedom and liberty' for all. The banning of the religious clothing (Burqa/Hijab, Sikh Turban, etc) is an example. There can't always be these double standards which the West is notorious for using.

Also there is a difference between hate speech (or drawings in this case) and freedom of expression. An act which sets out to purposely degrade a specific community by portrayig extremely highly regarded figures (like the Prophet Muhummad) in an absolute deplorable way, knowing that it could cause unnecessary turmoil in the community and cause harm, is hate.

Imagine if a cartoonist drew obscene drawings of your mother, who died (lets say of cancer). Your mother holds a special place in your heart, and you would do anything for her honour. You tell the cartoonist to stop drawing these drawings, as its unnecessary and that your mother is the most precious 'thing' to you. The cartoonist basically tells you to fuck off and says he can continue, under the pretext of 'freedom of speech'. You raise the point, that this not freedom of speech rather hate speech, but he dismisses you and continues drawing.... How would you feel?

Muslims regard the Prophet Muhummad as equally, if not greater, than their mother.

Okay mods I know you hate my past trolling and stuff.

But this is literally terrorist sympathising.

 

[PakiPrince]

I would ignore it, I wouldn't pull out an AK47 and start shooting.

you are victim blaming yet none of their actions can be any justification for what happened.

I didn't say "What would you do?", i said "How would you feel?".

Of course pulling out an AK47 and shooting anyone is downright idiotic and wrong. I never defended that buddy.

The message i am trying to portray is that the anger and outrage in the Islamic community (in response to the cartoons) is justified. (Once again, violence is NOT, but the cartoonists should have been aware of these possible violent consequences if they wanted to start degrading people's highly regarded beliefs.). Many people are saying these cartoonists have total freedom of speech and no one should be bothered by it, which is wrong. Its bothering people, and the people have justification to be bothered. (You can be arrested and trialed for hate speech.)

 

[SylviaB]

Of course pulling out an AK47 and shooting anyone is downright idiotic and wrong. I never defended that buddy.

(Once again, violence is NOT, but the cartoonists should have been aware of these possible violent consequences if they wanted to start degrading people's highly regarded beliefs.)

You ARE defending it though. It you think being offended is a relevant factor at all in massacring people then you're justifying violence.

Many people are saying these cartoonists have total freedom of speech and no one should be bothered by it, which is wrong. Its bothering people, and the people have justification to be bothered. (You can be arrested and trialed for hate speech.)

Are there hate speech laws to protect christians and jews in pakistan, or all the other majority muslim state?

No, of course not. Muslims don't give a flying toss about 'bothering people'. They don't want their beliefs mocked, that's all there is to it. Stop pretending you have any sort of principles beyond your islamic nationalism.

 

[Queenroot]

I'd be angry too but I'd be civilised enough to express my anger through words and not violence. I guess that's where the line is.

Killing someone in the honour of someone I respect and admire does not make me any better of a person.

 

[Kiraken]

Okay mods I know you hate my past trolling and stuff.

But this is literally terrorist sympathising.

not rly

he didn't say violence was by any means justified, he simply stated that people have a right to not like what the cartoonists were doing

 

[PakiPrince]

Okay mods I know you hate my past trolling and stuff.

But this is literally terrorist sympathising.

Haha. If anyone is against terrorists it would be me, seeing as members of my family were killed by the same "Wahhabi Sunni extremist" terrorists that carry out every Islamic related terrorist attack.

 

[SylviaB]

not rly

he didn't say violence was by any means justified, he simply stated that people have a right to not like what the cartoonists were doing

yes it is

there is no justifying this act and waxing poetic about how upset these people were and how the author should have been aware of these possible violent consequences is victim blaming and justification of murder.

not surprised that terrorism apologist kiraken is supporting this guy though

 

[Kiraken]

The issue here is that many Muslims around the world are more intent on blaming others for issues that arise rather than making a concerted effort to fix the issues within their community.

They should shift the focus from silly cartoons to how they can root out dangerous extremism from among their ranks. Unfortunately many people are too heavily inclined towards blaming the West to really consider a large part of the problem is few people in their population are making an effort to properly tackle the roots of extremist behaviour

 

[nerdasdasd]

The issue here is that many Muslims around the world are more intent on blaming others for issues that arise rather than making a concerted effort to fix the issues within their community.

They should shift the focus from silly cartoons to how they can root out dangerous extremism from among their ranks. Unfortunately many people are too heavily inclined towards blaming the West to really consider a large part of the problem is few people in their population are making an effort to properly tackle the roots of extremist behaviour

Are those extremists the ones that send death threats to criticisers of Islam ?

 

[Kiraken]

yes it is

there is no justifying this act and waxing poetic about how upset these people were and how the author should have been aware of these possible violent consequences is victim blaming and justification of murder.

not surprised that terrorism apologist kiraken is supporting this guy though

im simply stating he didn't actually justify the violence if you read his posts carefully

he was saying that people would be upset about the cartoons and perhaps they were counter-productive to actually tackling extremism

if he did say the violence was justified i would 100% agree with u that it is terrorism sympathising

i also take issue with being called a terrorism apologist simply because it is likely i hate terrorists even more than you do

 

[Kiraken]

Are those extremists the ones that send death threats to criticisers of Islam ?

yes lol clearly anyone who goes so far to threaten violence against another person for simply critiquing their religion is a violent nutjob

 

[SylviaB]

he was saying that people would be upset about the cartoons and perhaps they were counter-productive to actually tackling extremism

that is called victim blaming

i hate terrorists even more than you do

Only because they make muslims look bad.

 

[FlyingKanga]

I'd be angry too but I'd be civilised enough to express my anger through words and not violence. I guess that's where the line is.

Killing someone in the honour of someone I respect and admire does not make me any better of a person.

That is the correct response. Excerpt from Yasir Qadhi:

Loving the Prophet (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) is a necessary requirement of Iman. Defending his honor is a sign of belief. This is done by following his teachings and practice, not by murdering in his name.

Our Prophet was verbally abused and physically harrased multiple times in Makkah. Never ONCE did any of the Companions go and murder those who did such deeds.

Do those who kill others in the name of the Prophet believe that they love him more than the companions?

And even for those who believe that the penalty for blasphemy should be death: by unanimous consensus of ALL the scholars of Islam, this must take place after a legitimate trial, by a qualified judge, appointed by a legitimate Islamic state. Under NO circumstances does Islam allow vigilante justice, for to open this door leads to chaos, confusion and bloodshed.

Muslims: get your act together!! Such acts of terror are not only haram and spill innocent blood, they will come back to harm you and your communities in the short and long run.

And as a result, all of us will suffer.

 

[Kiraken]

that is called victim blaming




Only because they make muslims look bad.

yes but victim blaming isn't the same as being a terrorist sympathiser, not saying i believe victim blaming is right in this case either, im simply saying you can distinguish the two

you can criticise both the cartoonists and the terrorists you know. Personally i think it's tactless and pretty shit to criticise the cartoonists but i do not think saying it wasn't a good idea to make those cartoons is exactly the same as saying a violent response was justified

and no it's because Muslims themselves have suffered more in terms of actual casualties and political effects from extremist activity than virtually any other group of people, it's not just cos "they give us a bad name"

 

[PakiPrince]

Islam is a religion, not a dictatorship. Just remember that bud. Every ideology is open to criticism, and whence people realise that, they will also realise that it's THEIR choice wether or not they feel offended. No one is forcing you to be offended.

Here is the raw footage of the point-blank execution, the guy says "Chief" before he dies which i believe means buddy or dude in France. http://www.liveleak.com/view? i=bc6_1420632668

Drawing highly obscene pictures of highly regarded people in a religion (intended to demonise more than a billion people), and jesting about it IS NOT CRITICISM .... BUD.

Rather, constructive criticism would entail a discussion comprising people on all sides concerned. This would be in an adult like, respectable manner, appreciating and respecting the other beings and their beliefs, yet also constructively questioning it.

 

[classicjimbo]

Once again condemnation of the attack. Any loss of lives, is BAD.

But wanted to raise a point about this outpouring of 'attack on freedom and liberty' with the cartoonists killed.

Firstly, it neccessary to recognise that France is NOT a country that abides by 'freedom and liberty' for all. The banning of the religious clothing (Burqa/Hijab, Sikh Turban, etc) is an example. There can't always be these double standards which the West is notorious for using.

Also there is a difference between hate speech (or drawings in this case) and freedom of expression. An act which sets out to purposely degrade a specific community by portrayig extremely highly regarded figures (like the Prophet Muhummad) in an absolute deplorable way, knowing that it could cause unnecessary turmoil in the community and cause harm, is hate.

Imagine if a cartoonist drew obscene drawings of your mother, who died (lets say of cancer). Your mother holds a special place in your heart, and you would do anything for her honour. You tell the cartoonist to stop drawing these drawings, as its unnecessary and that your mother is the most precious 'thing' to you. The cartoonist basically tells you to fuck off and says he can continue, under the pretext of 'freedom of speech'. You raise the point, that this not freedom of speech rather hate speech, but he dismisses you and continues drawing.... How would you feel?

Muslims regard the Prophet Muhummad as equally, if not greater, than their mother.

you're a disgusting person

 

[Squar3root]

 

[wannaspoon]

They catch the fuck yet??? putting a hook through their scrotum and dragging them through the streets till their dead seems like an ideal punishment...

 

[PakiPrince]

They catch the fuck yet??? putting a hook through their scrotum and dragging them through the streets till their dead seems like an ideal punishment...

And you call Islam barbaric?..........